My Magic + details ...

Some premier annual passes do not work right now with MM+. I have the RFID card but I cannot add it to my online account. I called and they can't help me. They told me they are working on the issue. ..

Mine wasn't a Premium AP but I had a similar experience with my WDW Parks-Only AP. My next trip allows me to attend the last MNSSHP and first MVMVP. We decided to do both. I linked up both sets of extra event tickets and both APs for Mrs. Wiggum and I onto my Disney account. Everything was fine except my AP was there but showing an error. Mrs. Wiggum's AP was showing correctly with the correct expiration date. About 2 weeks ago, I called tech support to inquire about the issue. I was told the same thing (they are working on it). This morning, my AP was showing correctly in my Disney account. So whatever technical issue they had was solved. I don't know if it was the same issue you're experiencing but I'd check again.

Personally, I love the idea of being able to link all tickets along with my room key and resort charge. I found it a bit cumbersome to have to manage the AP separately. Mrs Wiggum always seemed to have problems with her AP that required at least one (or more) replacements per trip.
 

dadddio

Well-Known Member
With only a small subset of guests currently having access to FP+, of course those FP+ participants will have preferred access to pretty much any attraction they want. It will be different when everyone has exactly the same access. Just ask people's reactions when they no longer are able to get FP+ selections for TSM at will.
Despite being a volunteer program, only about 30% opted in to make FP+ selections before arrival. That's potentially a disastrous number for Disney. That's 30% of people who volunteered to participate in the program. As Disney CFO Jay Rasulo said: "So if we can get people to plan their vacation before they leave home, we know that we get more time with them. We get a bigger share of their wallet." If Disney can't get a much higher participation rate, a lot of the investment justification for MM+ will go out the window.
First, it should be noted that the company has stated that it only expects a small percentage of guests to actually take advantage of FP prereservations. As such, we really don’t have a way to know whether a 30% usage rate during the test is seen as an indicator of success or failure.
Second, you see to be making cross arguments. On one hand, you state that FP prereservations will be very low. On the other, you seem to be arguing that once the program is up and running, it will be impossible to obtain same-day reservations for a person’s favorite ride. I don’t believe that both scenarios can be correct. In fact, that was the company’s point when it was stated that FP prereservations are not likely to be made by but a small percentage of guests.
 

ParentsOf4

Well-Known Member
First, it should be noted that the company has stated that it only expects a small percentage of guests to actually take advantage of FP prereservations. As such, we really don’t have a way to know whether a 30% usage rate during the test is seen as an indicator of success or failure.
Second, you see to be making cross arguments. On one hand, you state that FP prereservations will be very low. On the other, you seem to be arguing that once the program is up and running, it will be impossible to obtain same-day reservations for a person’s favorite ride. I don’t believe that both scenarios can be correct. In fact, that was the company’s point when it was stated that FP prereservations are not likely to be made by but a small percentage of guests.
Attractions such as TSM, Soarin', and Peter Pan have very low capacities compared to typical daily attendance. It doesn't take much of a FP+ participation rate to use 100% of these attractions' capacity. WDW has a capcity problem that FP+ does not solve.

Also recall that, like an ADR, some times are better than others. I might be able to get a FP+ selection for Soarin' at 8:30 PM but do I really want it?

Burbank was expecting high participation rates. 30% is far below expectations. With sufficient guest education, this number should improve but 30% for a group of volunteers is a shockingly low number.
 

jkl2000

Well-Known Member
Total n00b question, from someone who hasn't read this thread or ever used FastPass, but are people going to be able to get additional Fastpasses after they've used those three they prescheduled for the day?
 

WDWDad13

Well-Known Member
You guys are going crazy with this, it's stupid!

Disney isn't doing anything different than any other store or place you visit already doing this exact thing, data mining. it been going on for years and isnt going away. They are just now jumping on the bandwagon.

I think everyone needs to chill with the privacy issues and such! You are all acting like Disney is gonna give every cm with an iPad your credit card number and social security card!?!

Does it really bother you that much that they will know what rides you have reserved and where you will be eating later in the day or say "hi Steve" as you scan your band?

All these what ifs and maybe they will do this or that, is it insane that this many pages has been douped into privacy issues that have always been around no matter way kind of tech is used!

Can we go back to speculating more on Avatar or Star Wars Galaxy and how embarrassing the presentations for these were at D23!!! Or maybe actual facts or reviews first hand of the magic band experience!?!

Amen brotha
 

CaptainShortty

Well-Known Member
Total n00b question, from someone who hasn't read this thread or ever used FastPass, but are people going to be able to get additional Fastpasses after they've used those three they prescheduled for the day?

At the moment, FP+ is restricted to 3 per person, per day and you are only able to schedule them for one park a day. No word if that will change during or after the complete rollout of MM+.
 

COProgressFan

Well-Known Member
Yes, I find that creepy.

Personalisation is something valuable because it is individualised attention. It normally means that someone makes the effort to learn something about me as an individual and adjusts his or her actions towards me accordingly. This is what makes it special - someone else is making an effort for me. If it is automated thanks to some computer system they are using, it loses that.

I am also not that impressed if at a shop, where I paid with my credit card, they address me by my name during this transaction. But I am very impressed when they still know me the next time I am there before they see my credit card.

I'm not impressed by that either. I guess they're think they're trying to personalize the transaction, but it often comes off as fake, forced. It's not like the clerk knows who I am, all they are doing is proving they can read my name from my credit card. And my last name, they can never pronounce properly anyway.

I'd much rather have some genuine, friendly chit chat with someone, which is way more personal than simply reading my name off a screen.
 

dadddio

Well-Known Member
Attractions such as TSM, Soarin', and Peter Pan have very low capacities compared to typical daily attendance. It doesn't take much of a FP+ participation rate to use 100% of these attractions' capacity.
It isn't the attractions capacity that you should be concerned about regarding this. It's the percentage of that capacity that will be alloted to FP. If a ride can seat 2 billion people per day, but they only give out three FPs, it might be difficulat to get one of those FPs. That being said, the rules that are being put in place does considerably stretch the number of guests that will be able to obtain FPs for any given attraction.
Also recall that, like an ADR, some times are better than others. I might be able to get a FP+ selection for Soarin' at 8:30 PM but do I really want it?
You may or may not. If you don't want it. Someone else may want it. One of the great things about FP+ is it gives the guest more control of when to use FPs.
Burbank was expecting high participation rates. 30% is far below expectations. With sufficient guest education, this number should improve but 30% for a group of volunteers is a shockingly low number.
I have no clue what the great city of Burbank wants or doesn't want or why it would care about FP prereservations on the other side of the country. That being said, the company's official statement regarding this issue was that they expected that only a small percentage of guests would take advantage of the benefit of being able to prereserve FPs.
 

dadddio

Well-Known Member
Total n00b question, from someone who hasn't read this thread or ever used FastPass, but are people going to be able to get additional Fastpasses after they've used those three they prescheduled for the day?
The Terms and Conditions sugegsts that they would be able to obtain additional FPs same-day based on availability, but the company has not made any official statement about the issue.
 

dadddio

Well-Known Member
I'm not impressed by that either. I guess they're think they're trying to personalize the transaction, but it often comes off as fake, forced. It's not like the clerk knows who I am, all they are doing is proving they can read my name from my credit card. And my last name, they can never pronounce properly anyway.

I'd much rather have some genuine, friendly chit chat with someone, which is way more personal than simply reading my name off a screen.
My feeling is that 'Thank you, Mr Smith' is better than 'Thank you' or 'have a Jim Dandy Day', regardless of whether the employee read my name off my credit card or it popped up on his screen.

Further, Cinderella knowing my kid's name is genius.
 

Buried20KLeague

Well-Known Member
It isn't the attractions capacity that you should be concerned about regarding this. It's the percentage of that capacity that will be alloted to FP. If a ride can seat 2 billion people per day, but they only give out three FPs, it might be difficulat to get one of those FPs. That being said, the rules that are being put in place does considerably stretch the number of guests that will be able to obtain FPs for any given attraction.
You may or may not. If you don't want it. Someone else may want it. One of the great things about FP+ is it gives the guest more control of when to use FPs.
I have no clue what the great city of Burbank wants or doesn't want or why it would care about FP prereservations on the other side of the country. That being said, the company's official statement regarding this issue was that they expected that only a small percentage of guests would take advantage of the benefit of being able to prereserve FPs.


I don't even know where to begin with this blathering nonsense.

@ParentsOf4, I'm stepping away from the vortex.
 

dadddio

Well-Known Member
I don't even know where to begin with this blathering nonsense.

@ParentsOf4, I'm stepping away from the vortex.
Which part do you disagree with? The idea that the FP+ rules increases the number of guests who can get a FP for any particular ride or the fact that the company stated that they expected a small percentage of guests to take advantage of FP prereservations? The first is simple math and the second is on the record.

Perhaps you are just dropping back to throwing insults rather than having an actual discussion. I suspect that that is the real answer.
 

KingStefan

Well-Known Member
I suggest looking at THIS video from DEFCON 12
...
One could easily hide the long range reader in a laundry cart
Again, the question is: toward what end?
In this video (very interesting, by the way) this researcher was able to read a commonly used (unsecure) RFID from a few hundred feet using a powerful directional antenna (that would *not* fit in a laundry cart) with a transceiver that needed "wall power" (OK, so a laundry cart next to a wall plug, that doesn't move) across a flat empty surface with only *one* RFID present, with his wife holding it up, with no other people around. Still impressive because of the distance from a pure research standpoint. But with no practical application, except for the marketing one he mentions at the end, which - wait for it - is exactly what Disney is trying to do with their own RFIDs.

Note that behind his wife was a cyclone fence, which he admitted interfered with reading the RFID from the expected distance, and the demo he tried to do in the room failed, because there were lots of RFIDs in the room.

And the "consequences" as he called them were of no consequence (no pun intended). I'll do some further comment on this later if I can find the time to get back to it - but basically it's what I said all along - doesn't really add any significant capability to do anything nasty over and above what you can do with ordinary mostly non-technology driven methods, like watching someone in person.
 

Buried20KLeague

Well-Known Member
Which part do you disagree with? The idea that the FP+ rules increases the number of guests who can get a FP for any particular ride or the fact that the company stated that they expected a small percentage of guests to take advantage of FP prereservations? The first is simple math and the second is on the record.

Perhaps you are just dropping back to throwing insults rather than having an actual discussion. I suspect that that is the real answer.


First, capacity of an attraction DOES matter. It's been stated over and over by people with more inside information than I (and certainly you) that the FP to standby ratio is similar (if not exact) between attractions. Therefore, the number of FP's given out is almost ENTIRELY defined by capacity of the attraction. And you knew exactly the point he was trying to make... You were deflecting. You know as well as I do that there aren't as many PPF FP's given out in a day than Soarin'. That's not because there's a lower ratio at PPF... It's because of limited capacity as a result of the ride system.

You then state:

"That being said, the rules that are being put in place does considerably stretch the number of guests that will be able to obtain FPs for any given attraction."

That's misleading. That statement might apply in a vaccuum... In a MK that currently had no system in place. But that's not the case. There's already a FP system in place, and when changed to the new system, will restrict you in ways the currect system does not. With the new system, there will be no way (based on all that we know) for you to hold as many FP's in a day as before. You might respond and say that your glass is half full where mine is half empty... When looking at it from a "daily crowd" point of view, you're right... More individual people in that crowd will have a chance to get a PPF FP. But I don't look at it from a "daily crowd" point of view. I look at it from a personal point of view, because it's MY park experience that's being effected. And without question, this new system is going to negatively effect my family's day when touring the park. That's not a "maybe". That's for certain.

Then you argue the point he may want a Soarin' FP at 8:30 (even though you knew what his point was). You skip by that point and say that "someone else might". Again, your argument is in support of what's "good for the group", and you're ignoring his complaint about how it will effect his family. That's one less FP for his family for the day. That's all he cares about. That's all I care about. We care about OUR park experiences, and how they're going to be negatively impacted by the system changes.

These system changes will negatively impact our days at the parks by giving TDO the ability to reward whoever they like with whatever they like and whenever they like... And if it comes at the expense of your family or mine, it won't matter. And you'll never even know it. You'll never even know how FP capacity is effected by TDO giving a little here to one group, or a little there to another. The only thing you'll notice is that even though you woke up early at the 60 day mark to get your TSMM FP's online (which I think is an insane thing to have to do in the first place), you were already restricted on dates and times you had to choose from. Hmmm... Wonder why? You'll never know.

Then you deflect AGAIN about reported participation numbers and spin to make it sound like they're probably happy with the numbers because they don't expect many to pre-book. REALLY??? Come on. They have HUGE motivation to get as many people to use this system as humanly possible, for a NUMBER of reasons. To think they're all just sitting back with a nice cool lemonade saying "hey, if they use it, great! If not, that's cool too!" is utterly and completely laughable. When this thing goes live, if the numbers stay like they are, I would bet the farm that anyone that is staying on property that doesn't pre-book FP's will automatically get some assigned at the 30 or 45 day mark before their trip... Meaning if those people don't willingly do it, they'll get them force fed down their throats. Why?? Because if I receive an e-mail telling me that I've already got times booked for rides each day for my upcoming trip, I'm more inclined to enter the park to use those slots on those days because if I don't I'll feel like I'm losing something. And that e-mail telling me about my computer assigned times will be accompanied by detailed instructions on how to add dining reservations too.

When I tour the park with my family, I'm concerned with my family's day. I'm not concerned about what everyone else is doing and why and how and how much. I would assume, based on your stance here, that you must be the opposite and spend your day making sure everyone is having as good a time as you. Mighty cavalier of you, especially seeing as how you're apparently willing to give up your seat on attractions (literally) for others... Even if those "others" did nothing more than get a room at the Poly while you got yours at ASM.
 

dadddio

Well-Known Member
Here we go...
First, capacity of an attraction DOES matter. It's been stated over and over by people with more inside information than I (and certainly you) that the FP to standby ratio is similar (if not exact) between attractions. Therefore, the number of FP's given out is almost ENTIRELY defined by capacity of the attraction. And you knew exactly the point he was trying to make... You were deflecting. You know as well as I do that there aren't as many PPF FP's given out in a day than Soarin'. That's not because there's a lower ratio at PPF... It's because of limited capacity as a result of the ride system.

You then state:

"That being said, the rules that are being put in place does considerably stretch the number of guests that will be able to obtain FPs for any given attraction."

That's misleading. That statement might apply in a vaccuum... In a MK that currently had no system in place. But that's not the case. There's already a FP system in place, and when changed to the new system, will restrict you in ways the currect system does not. With the new system, there will be no way (based on all that we know) for you to hold as many FP's in a day as before. You might respond and say that your glass is half full where mine is half empty... When looking at it from a "daily crowd" point of view, you're right... More individual people in that crowd will have a chance to get a PPF FP. But I don't look at it from a "daily crowd" point of view. I look at it from a personal point of view, because it's MY park experience that's being effected. And without question, this new system is going to negatively effect my family's day when touring the park. That's not a "maybe". That's for certain.
The issue was whether a person (any person; you me, that other hypothetical guy) would be more or less likely to be able to get a FP for a specific ride. The reality is, with the new FP rules, any individual is more likely to be able to get a FP for a ride than before because the rules force the FPs to be spread out among more people. Will you (actually you) be more likely to be able to get a FP for your favorite ride? Yes, you will because I could only get one instead of four and if I can't use that one, I'm more likely to trade it in for something else so you can snatch it up.
Then you argue the point he may want a Soarin' FP at 8:30 (even though you knew what his point was). You skip by that point and say that "someone else might". Again, your argument is in support of what's "good for the group", and you're ignoring his complaint about how it will effect his family. That's one less FP for his family for the day. That's all he cares about. That's all I care about. We care about OUR park experiences, and how they're going to be negatively impacted by the system changes.
If I missed his point about the 8:30 FP, it's because I don't understand his point. Under the current FP system, if the FP return time is 8:30, you have the choice to take the FP for 8:30 or no FP for you. Under the new FP system, you choose from any and all that are available.
These system changes will negatively impact our days at the parks by giving TDO the ability to reward whoever they like with whatever they like and whenever they like... And if it comes at the expense of your family or mine, it won't matter. And you'll never even know it. You'll never even know how FP capacity is effected by TDO giving a little here to one group, or a little there to another. The only thing you'll notice is that even though you woke up early at the 60 day mark to get your TSMM FP's online (which I think is an insane thing to have to do in the first place), you were already restricted on dates and times you had to choose from. Hmmm... Wonder why? You'll never know.
Nothing that has been officially released suggests that they will be restricting FP usage in this manner. You can feel free to hate the system based on forum conjecture and paranoia. I choose not to.
Then you deflect AGAIN about reported participation numbers and spin to make it sound like they're probably happy with the numbers because they don't expect many to pre-book. REALLY??? Come on. They have HUGE motivation to get as many people to use this system as humanly possible, for a NUMBER of reasons. To think they're all just sitting back with a nice cool lemonade saying "hey, if they use it, great! If not, that's cool too!" is utterly and completely laughable.
I don't know if they are happy with the prereservation rates or not. I only know what they have stated officially.
When this thing goes live, if the numbers stay like they are, I would bet the farm that anyone that is staying on property that doesn't pre-book FP's will automatically get some assigned at the 30 or 45 day mark before their trip... Meaning if those people don't willingly do it, they'll get them force fed down their throats. Why?? Because if I receive an e-mail telling me that I've already got times booked for rides each day for my upcoming trip, I'm more inclined to enter the park to use those slots on those days because if I don't I'll feel like I'm losing something. And that e-mail telling me about my computer assigned times will be accompanied by detailed instructions on how to add dining reservations too.
That definitely sounds like one way that they could go about it. I'd also have the travel agents beating the drum. That's a value-added service they could provide, after all.
When I tour the park with my family, I'm concerned with my family's day. I'm not concerned about what everyone else is doing and why and how and how much. I would assume, based on your stance here, that you must be the opposite and spend your day making sure everyone is having as good a time as you. Mighty cavalier of you, especially seeing as how you're apparently willing to give up your seat on attractions (literally) for others... Even if those "others" did nothing more than get a room at the Poly while you got yours at ASM.
I have no idea where you are getting this from. When I tour the park, I use my knowledge of the parks and how they operate to best maximize my family's fun. I will do the same thing after MM+/FP+ is fully operational. I'll not and moan if the changes mean that I have to change.

I bet you were real fun to be around when they started to police FP return times.
 

RSoxNo1

Well-Known Member
So they didn't tell you anything new at all.
The biggest thing was that the person I spoke with did sympathize with the Dining Plan comparison. However, I wasn't able to determine if that was a personal opinion or an opinion shared by the powers that be. I suspect it was the former.
 

dadddio

Well-Known Member
The biggest thing was that the person I spoke with did sympathize with the Dining Plan comparison. However, I wasn't able to determine if that was a personal opinion or an opinion shared by the powers that be. I suspect it was the former.
I'm with you about the dining plan. Of course, I guess it matters when you go. We tend to go off season when you can get same day reservations for the bulk of the restaurants. On the other hand, the real or imagined need to work out dinng reservations so far in advance is the thing that makes it OK to me to lock my FP prereservations in 60 days out since we've already had to work out what parks we will be in from day to day.
 

Buried20KLeague

Well-Known Member
Here we go...
The issue was whether a person (any person; you me, that other hypothetical guy) would be more or less likely to be able to get a FP for a specific ride. The reality is, with the new FP rules, any individual is more likely to be able to get a FP for a ride than before because the rules force the FPs to be spread out among more people. Will you (actually you) be more likely to be able to get a FP for your favorite ride? Yes, you will because I could only get one instead of four and if I can't use that one, I'm more likely to trade it in for something else so you can snatch it up.

I'll argue it will be the opposite... That because more people are going to be using the FP+ system (either voluntarily or forced), it will be MORE difficult to get "good" FP's than it currently is today. The reason for that will be pre-planning will lead to the top tier attractions being taken first, leaving the lesser attractions for those that aren't at the front of the line to book. My evidence I can point to to back my case? FP+ being added to nearly EVERY attraction (in order to artificially inflate FP capacity), and even fireworks (Illumincations?? SERIOUSLY?) and the fact that we've seen essentially this same thing happen with ADR's already. Mine is not conjecture... Mine is that FP+ is ADR's for rides.

If I missed his point about the 8:30 FP, it's because I don't understand his point. Under the current FP system, if the FP return time is 8:30, you have the choice to take the FP for 8:30 or no FP for you. Under the new FP system, you choose from any and all that are available.

His point was that the only time that might be left for an attraction like Soarin' would be a completely undesireable time to most, in this case shortly before Illuminations. It was about availability... Not ability to select windows.

Nothing that has been officially released suggests that they will be restricting FP usage in this manner. You can feel free to hate the system based on forum conjecture and paranoia. I choose not to.

Wait... Are you saying Disney hasn't officially released how MM+ will negatively impact anyone's park touring? You're KIDDING!! :rolleyes: Just because they don't come out and say something doesn't mean you can't extrapolate based on data available plus history. You're doing exactly the same thing, just in the other direction. A bit hypocritical to accuse me of doing the same thing you are yet arriving at a different viewpoint, I'd say.

I don't know if they are happy with the prereservation rates or not. I only know what they have stated officially.

Deflection. And how much of the discussion on this board is limited to officially released statements by TDO? My guess is if that were the case, Steve couldn't pay the bills and you'd have to head back to the DIS.

That definitely sounds like one way that they could go about it. I'd also have the travel agents beating the drum. That's a value-added service they could provide, after all.

At the expense of your family's FP availability. Again, how cavalier.

I have no idea where you are getting this from. When I tour the park, I use my knowledge of the parks and how they operate to best maximize my family's fun. I will do the same thing after MM+/FP+ is fully operational. I'll not and moan if the changes mean that I have to change.

I bet you were real fun to be around when they started to police FP return times.

I'm not at all worried about CHANGING how I tour the parks. I'm worried about getting less for my park dollar, which is what will happen with this system. That value is going to be spread out various ways to various people... And you'll have no control over that, and you'll have no idea how it's done. THAT'S when I'll b and moan. And it's coming. Oh, it's coming. The end result for you will be less rides per day than you get currently, and more time in lines. It might be the same number of rides and just shifting around wait times for the majority of guests... But not for us. Not for the ones that spend the most money and are the biggest fans and are there the most. That capacity has to come from somewhere. SOMEONE will have to give up their seats so that others get those spots instead. And who will be hit the hardest? Those that currently have the most knowledge of the parks and of the systems and spend the most time in those ride vehicles.
 

RSoxNo1

Well-Known Member
I'm with you about the dining plan. Of course, I guess it matters when you go. We tend to go off season when you can get same day reservations for the bulk of the restaurants. On the other hand, the real or imagined need to work out dinng reservations so far in advance is the thing that makes it OK to me to lock my FP prereservations in 60 days out since we've already had to work out what parks we will be in from day to day.
I said something to the "expert" that I said in a MiceChat article a while ago. I love the idea of walking into Epcot at 11 AM and waiting in a 5 minute line at Spaceship Earth, then while I'm in line I go on my phone and reserve a Soarin' Fastpass and a Dinner Reservation for World Showcase day of. What I fear is an artificially inflated wait time at Spaceship Earth, no availability of Soarin' Fastpasses and no availability at the good restaurants.
 

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