Meg and Co. Head West ...

[TP2000]

However, what I want to know is do you constantly post this to just try to stir up trouble for all the WDW fans who are on this WDW based site, or do you genuinely have an interest in WDW..

One word that keeps me coming back to WDW now: Epcot. :lol:

Otherwise, I do love my Disneyland. I don't work there, but have been visiting regularly since the 1990's, through some very dark years that Disneyland went through in the late 90's/early 00's. I just wish WDW management could see the light like TDA did. So much potential!

 

[devoy1701]

Nope, I can think for myself! :lol: I actually thought the Christmas show as cut in 2004. My bad and thanks for the correction.

Speaking of holiday cuts, one of today's homepage items is the Improved Epcot Christmas tree! Now with no gaps! What an improv...

Wait.

Wasn't the gap there for the stage for Epcot's nightly tree lighting ceremony to turn on the lights on the tree and the Lights of Winter? The short little stage show? The one that was axed within the last few years, just like the Lights of Winter?

No lights. No show. But no gap!

Happy Holidays-TDO :xmas:

and it only took then 3 years to erase that show from everyone's memory (and from the base of the tree)!

 

[jt04]

One word that keeps me coming back to WDW now: Epcot. :lol:

Otherwise, I do love my Disneyland. I don't work there, but have been visiting regularly since the 1990's, through some very dark years that Disneyland went through in the late 90's/early 00's. I just wish WDW management could see the light like TDA did. So much potential!

Be careful what you ask for. Because the unintended consequence may be a DLR that quickly loses its luster. Kind of like California.

Not that I agree with your premise. But if WDW layers on more and more magic it will attract even more visitors than it does now. Poor Disneyland.

 

[Buried20KLeague]

Funny you should mention that! I visited Disneyland, for the first time in YEARS, and only the fourth time ever, last Tuesday. I put my trip report here:

http://forums.wdwmagic.com/showthread.php?t=824389

Not to derail this thread, so go read that and post there would be the proper thing to do, I think.

Due to that Disneyland trip, my thoughts on WDW matters have been bouncing around a lot the past week.

Still interested in what folks like whylightbulb and WDW1974, etc. have to say to, um, comfort, console, whack me upside the head? :lol:

Ah, didn't see your trip report.

I guess for me, the issues with WDW got harder to stomach when I started branching out to the other resorts. Hong Kong, Paris, and especially Tokyo. So much is done right in those resorts it started making me frustrated that my "home" resort had gotten to where it was. Those resorts aren't without their own faults, I'll agree (except for Tokyo which I literally couldn't find one fault with!)... But as a whole, it's just sad to me that I would have to rank WDW last in terms of upkeep and yes... "Declining by degrees". It's supposed to be the flagship resort, and it's not treated as such by those in command. It's frustrating.

 

[RSoxNo1]

One word that keeps me coming back to WDW now: Epcot. :lol:

Otherwise, I do love my Disneyland. I don't work there, but have been visiting regularly since the 1990's, through some very dark years that Disneyland went through in the late 90's/early 00's. I just wish WDW management could see the light like TDA did. So much potential!

This isn't meant to be occusatory, it's an honest question. What is it about Epcot that you like?

I've found that many people that claim to be fans of Epcot are fans of what Epcot used to be, not what Epcot is currently.

 

[WDW1974]

One advantage of me being the only one who puts content on the site is that I remember writing the thing at the time it happened LOL.

Here is the news item - Oct 17 2006
http://www.wdwmagic.com/Attractions...-Country-Bear-Christmas-Special-this-year.htm

I believe you!

I just must have missed a few holiday seasons at WDW (think I wasn't there in 2004-2005), so I likely hadn't seen it since '03 before Tokyo!:xmas:

~GFC~

 

[WDW1974]

I totally agree. Upper Management is the main problem, and it just flows downhill from there. I have been told by Directors and VP's that it isn't a problem because we haven't had any guest complaints about it, so they don't care or just don't notice.

Several times, especially at DAK, we have been told to just turn off special effects or disable certain functions on AA figures because the guests won't notice anyway. All just to save money and don't worry about show quality.

I know you don't want to lose your job, but I'd be tempted to ask the managers if they even have a basic understanding as to what is supposed to make Disney so special and unique and if they realize their decisions run 180 degrees in the other direction.

But again, I do like telling off people who contribute to a lower quality for us all ... whether they are politicians, CEOs or mid-level Disney managers who belong at Walmart! :xmas:

~GFC~

 

[WDW1974]

But, what about the other side of the fan community? The group that will sit here and complain about what TDO does, yet still continuously goes to the parks and supports them financially. Disney isn't my family member or a child that I need to continuously believe in. I don't have to keep supporting it and hoping that it can change and be better if I keep providing it with capital and support. As of right now, I (spoken for myself and not for anyone else) believe that WDW still provides me with value for my money. It might not be the golden age of the 70s or 80s, and it might not be the value of DL, Tokyo, or something completely non-Disney...but I feel that I still get value when I go. If ever a day should come where I don't think that I am getting the value I need, I will stop going. If Disney has become as financially oriented as many suggest then I will surely hit them where it hurts most if I want to enact change.

I can only speak for myself.

Disney gets a fraction of the money it once did from me and my posse (fam/friends). I still enjoy the place enough to visit, but it helps that some very important people to me live in O-Town. I visit far less now than a decade ago when I was there on an almost monthly basis.

I have stayed at EVERY WDW resort except for ASMo, OKW and the 2009 DVC add-ons. Many for a scary number of nights ... well over 100 at WL for instance. ... 2011 will mark the second time in three years that I haven't stayed at a WDW resort for one night. I used to dine almost exclusively on-site and had at least one full serve meal a day. Not anymore. I'll dine at the on-site locations that Disney doesn't own/control at Swan/Dolphin/DD/Hotel Plaza and off-site. I buy almost no merchandise unless it's from Property Control. Due to some wonderful CM friends, my family and friends no longer own APs and are comped in.

So, I still visit WDW regularly. But they make about 15-20% of what the used to make off me and my extended family.

For me, WDW is virtually a steal to visit. But I view it the same I always have ... as what they offer versus the value given versus what they always used to.

They've nickeled and dimed me so much that now I do likewise to them (you know I do steal soda too, right?:ROFLOL

The point being that WDW is a TREMENDOUS value for me right now. Maybe moreso than ever before. But I'd gladly pay more to get what we all should be getting now. Until then, they can enjoy making a few grand from me in a year when I used to be able to drop that in a few days.

Oh, and I also have stopped using credit for almost all of my WDW purchases, so they can't even track what I am spending ... this way it appears I am spending even less.

~GFC~

 

[WDW1974]

Reflections of Earth with the Peace on Earth finale opened in November 2004. The only part of the show that remained from Holiday IllumiNations was the music and narration. It is all new programming, new fireworks, new everything. Much of the hardware that runs the show didn't even exist when Holiday IllumiNations ran in the 90s.

Doesn't matter, Steve. They still are taking the heart, soul and essence of a part of an old show and adding it to another ancient show and making it seem like it is new.

It isn't. Nice that it's new programming and pyro, but only the geekiest among us would even know or care.

How about a new show for Christmas? ... Hell, how about a new regular lagoon show too?

~GFC~

 

[WDW1974]

Funny you should mention that! I visited Disneyland, for the first time in YEARS, and only the fourth time ever, last Tuesday. I put my trip report here:

http://forums.wdwmagic.com/showthread.php?t=824389

Not to derail this thread, so go read that and post there would be the proper thing to do, I think.

Due to that Disneyland trip, my thoughts on WDW matters have been bouncing around a lot the past week.

Still interested in what folks like whylightbulb and WDW1974, etc. have to say to, um, comfort, console, whack me upside the head? :lol:

UGH!!! Something else to read?!??!:ROFLOL:

OK ... I'm interested ... I'll read.

~GFC~

 

[WDW1974]

Ah, didn't see your trip report.

I guess for me, the issues with WDW got harder to stomach when I started branching out to the other resorts. Hong Kong, Paris, and especially Tokyo. So much is done right in those resorts it started making me frustrated that my "home" resort had gotten to where it was. Those resorts aren't without their own faults, I'll agree (except for Tokyo which I literally couldn't find one fault with!)... But as a whole, it's just sad to me that I would have to rank WDW last in terms of upkeep and yes... "Declining by degrees". It's supposed to be the flagship resort, and it's not treated as such by those in command. It's frustrating.

Hey ... when did you join the Fanboi Royalty Club by visiting DLP?

And there's no way I would place WDW anywhere but dead last in details like show quality, upkeep, quality management, fresh product etc.

Oh, and hey I did see a few dead bulbs at TDR and a few railings that had paint worn away ... but couldn't find one effect in either park or one important part of the show that was off.

And so nice to see 'suits' wearing high-end suits and looking the part ... nothing like say talking to a 'suit' at WDW who comes out wearing Walmart clothes from home and has blackberries/lanyards/assorted crap dangling and looking like they make $15,000 a year (they do make more!)

~GFC~

 

[TP2000]

This isn't meant to be occusatory, it's an honest question. What is it about Epcot that you like?

I've found that many people that claim to be fans of Epcot are fans of what Epcot used to be, not what Epcot is currently.

Oh, friend, don't get me started! I'm trying to stay positive here!

I fell in love with Epcot upon its opening, and grew emotional over it by the late 80's. It's the emotional ties that keep me coming back, although some of the recent changes are actually an improvement over the 1982 originals. Am I really the only one who actually likes Gran Fiesta Tour better than El Rio Del Tiempo? (Not that I don't ADORE and miss the horribly kitschy video walls with the stereotype market salesman and those Early Reagan-era Swingers having margaritas in the swim up bar! But I was laughing at it then, not with it.)

There have been some painful missteps at Epcot in the last 15 years. Imagination, Spaceship Earth a few times, Test Track of the last decade, the Tombstones at the entrance, etc. But things have also been turning around lately; Nemo & Friends, Spaceship Earth version 3.4 or whatever we're on now, the digital conversion of film attractions, etc.

All that said, it's the connection I have to Epcot circa 1982-90 that keeps me coming back. And it's funny you zeroed in on it and mentioned it, because just yesterday I found the CD I made of all the original Epcot theme songs and was blasting it in the car as I ran errands yesterday! :lookaroun

 

[TP2000]

Be careful what you ask for. Because the unintended consequence may be a DLR that quickly loses its luster.

Disneyland has lost its luster before. See any of my posts on various boards from 1998-2003 for a good example. The early/mid 70's weren't a particularly glowing period for Disneyland either.

It's happened before, and I'm sure it will happen again. Not everything can be super-fabulous year after year, decade after decade. There will be a fall for Disneyland Resort at some point in the future; it could come in 2013 or it may be the 2030's, we don't know.

The point is that it happens, and a version of it appears to be happening to WDW this decade. How TDO responds to it, and how long that response takes, is what is eternally fascinating to me.

 

[Buried20KLeague]

Hey ... when did you join the Fanboi Royalty Club by visiting DLP?

And there's no way I would place WDW anywhere but dead last in details like show quality, upkeep, quality management, fresh product etc.

Oh, and hey I did see a few dead bulbs at TDR and a few railings that had paint worn away ... but couldn't find one effect in either park or one important part of the show that was off.

And so nice to see 'suits' wearing high-end suits and looking the part ... nothing like say talking to a 'suit' at WDW who comes out wearing Walmart clothes from home and has blackberries/lanyards/assorted crap dangling and looking like they make $15,000 a year (they do make more!)

~GFC~

We hit up DLP in 2009. It was the last jewel in the "WorldWide Crown" for me. :king:

Don't forget... I circled the Disney Earth before YOU, young Paduwan! Ha!

 

[jt04]

Disneyland has lost its luster before. See any of my posts on various boards from 1998-2003 for a good example. The early/mid 70's weren't a particularly glowing period for Disneyland either.

It's happened before, and I'm sure it will happen again. Not everything can be super-fabulous year after year, decade after decade. There will be a fall for Disneyland Resort at some point in the future; it could come in 2013 or it may be the 2030's, we don't know.

The point is that it happens, and a version of it appears to be happening to WDW this decade. How TDO responds to it, and how long that response takes, is what is eternally fascinating to me.

The debate is so overwrought here that the conversation has long since been made devoid of any meaning. And likely the majority of the speculation is based on wrong assumptions and spurred on by jaded fanboys who will never recover their sense of wonder. This happens to all who nurture a certain world view and it does not matter what they once invested all their idealism in. The result is always the same and they end up bitter and vindictive and spiteful and angry. But, people are who they are. I try to help but some things are just beyond what can be recovered.

I have hope Disney will move beyond the cyclical way in which they grow their resorts but they have certainly proved to be the experts. And they know how to build demand for their parks. I just think a constant upgrading would be better but they seem to like a different business model and it is tough to argue with success.

 

[HMF]

One word that keeps me coming back to WDW now: Epcot. :lol:

Otherwise, I do love my Disneyland. I don't work there, but have been visiting regularly since the 1990's, through some very dark years that Disneyland went through in the late 90's/early 00's. I just wish WDW management could see the light like TDA did. So much potential!

The Monorail crash should have been the wake-up call for Burbank to fix TDO like Big Thunder was for TDA. Sadly, it seems that things will not get brighter especially with Meg getting her promotion.

 

[HMF]

... Hell, how about a new regular lagoon show too?
~GFC~

Over my dead body.

 

[TheDisneyMagic]

Originally Posted by wdwmagic
One advantage of me being the only one who puts content on the site is that I remember writing the thing at the time it happened LOL.

Here is the news item - Oct 17 2006
http://www.wdwmagic.com/Attractions/...-this-year.htm

Is it sad that I can remember reading that article and being shocked from five years ago. Heck I can remember even further back with all the Mission Space construction topics on the main page. That was what got me addicted to this site.

 

[HMF]

Oh, friend, don't get me started! I'm trying to stay positive here!

I fell in love with Epcot upon its opening, and grew emotional over it by the late 80's. It's the emotional ties that keep me coming back, although some of the recent changes are actually an improvement over the 1982 originals. Am I really the only one who actually likes Gran Fiesta Tour better than El Rio Del Tiempo? (Not that I don't ADORE and miss the horribly kitschy video walls with the stereotype market salesman and those Early Reagan-era Swingers having margaritas in the swim up bar! But I was laughing at it then, not with it.)

There have been some painful missteps at Epcot in the last 15 years. Imagination, Spaceship Earth a few times, Test Track of the last decade, the Tombstones at the entrance, etc. But things have also been turning around lately; Nemo & Friends, Spaceship Earth version 3.4 or whatever we're on now, the digital conversion of film attractions, etc.
n

Those are sign of a turn-around? I will take a million tombstones over Seas with Nemo and Friends and Spaceship Earth for idiots. If/when IllumiNations is replaced, Epcot will be considered "dead" to me.

 

[thelookingglass]

Yeah, no offense, but how is the current iteration of Spaceship Earth an improvement in any way, shape, or form over the Jeremy Irons '94 version?

(well ok, the animatronics and look of most of the scenes has been improved, but still)