Meg and Co. Head West ...

cheezbat

Well-Known Member
But fans first have to be honest with themselves as to whether they are Disney parks fans or simply WDW fans (or addicts) before they even head to Anaheim. ... because once someone is addicted to things like buses and Disney controlling all the property you can see or all foamhead entertainment and being told HAVE A MAGICAL DAY 45 insincere times a day, it's very hard to break them of that.

~GFC~

Gosh isn't that the truth! I think so many people on here have their rose-colored WDW glasses on and think it's the greatest thing ever and WDW is all there really is that is Disney. I'm more of the mindset that I love all things Disney and absolutely love theme parks, be it Universal, Busch Gardens, Six Flags or Disney! They're all different experiences for a reason.

Disneyland resort is not worth missing. So glad I've made multiple trips over there!
 

WDW1974

Well-Known Member
Original Poster
Just out of curiosity, what do you know about SkyDance? You know that "New" show that Don Dorsey was working on (but was never publicly announced) for Epcot that just disappeared a few years ago?

I know that he wanted it. That it would have been good (that's not based on intimate knowledge of the show, but of the man and what he can and has done).

Ultimately, it really did come down to money mixed with Disney's mentality in O-Town that 'if it ain't broke, don't fix it ... and (warning cheap, but honest, shot coming) if it is broke, don't fix it.'

I love that show. Have seen it more than ANY other night show at any Disney park (hundreds of showings and I don't live in the area), but I'm ready for something new using new tech.

I haven't asked, but I wonder if Don stepping in and helping on DL's Soundsational Parade at the 11th hour (and that is one fun high-quality, quirky Disney parade) might give him some power to push again.

~GFC~
 

WDW1974

Well-Known Member
Original Poster
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cosmic Commando
So I guess I'm the only one who likes new Epcot for what it is? I like Ellen, the Seas, Figment 2.0, Innoventions, Gran Fiesta Tour, Test Track, Kim Possible...

Careful, those could be fighting words.

Why? People should be entitled to like whatever they like (well, unless they are Penn State assistant football coaches ... gotta draw the line somewhere!)

But if someone prefers Epcot 2011 vs. EPCOT Center 1991, more power to them. I totally disagree, but on liking attractions it's a matter of taste. Some people will always enjoy a Whopper vs. a fine cut of Kobe beef. That's cool. On that, it is just taste.

It's when people start attacking factual reasons for why the overall product is a lesser one, that's when you get fighting words.

~GFC~
 

Pioneer Hall

Well-Known Member
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cosmic Commando
So I guess I'm the only one who likes new Epcot for what it is? I like Ellen, the Seas, Figment 2.0, Innoventions, Gran Fiesta Tour, Test Track, Kim Possible...



Why? People should be entitled to like whatever they like (well, unless they are Penn State assistant football coaches ... gotta draw the line somewhere!)

But if someone prefers Epcot 2011 vs. EPCOT Center 1991, more power to them. I totally disagree, but on liking attractions it's a matter of taste. Some people will always enjoy a Whopper vs. a fine cut of Kobe beef. That's cool. On that, it is just taste.

It's when people start attacking factual reasons for why the overall product is a lesser one, that's when you get fighting words.

~GFC~

Sometimes people have a tendency to attack those that like today over the "golden years"..and... well anything else they disagree with for that matter. I mean even talking about Via Napoli pizza gets people all up in arms yelling at one another.
 

Buried20KLeague

Well-Known Member
I am just thrilled (being a Disney Hating Spirit and all) that I hit every park/resort. For some reason I thought you hadn't been to Paris when we crossed paths in the real world.

Doesn't matter ... we're still all royalty!:king:

Now, have you been on any DCL voyages, what about stays at Vero Beach and Hilton Head? Let's see who's really king!:drevil::king::ROFLOL:

Hey, wanna meet me at the opening of SDL?:)

~GFC~

DCL yes, Vero no. You've got me there. :). But I've been to the new local Disney store... What say you to that????

But you have my word on Shanghai... Seriously. We've already talked about it. Just know that my brood would be in tow!!

The only thing that would stop us would be an attractions list the size of HKDL. If they've got to count the model A's that drive down main street as an attraction, we'll be waiting for phase II to be completed, I'd bet!
 

WDW1974

Well-Known Member
Original Poster
I agree with most of this.

I think the food in World Showcase is way overrated, but I think most of the dining changes in recent years have been for the better. Although I'm also in the minority that thinks dining quality is presently on the upswing (except prices, which are suffering inflation due to the DDP).

Food is largely overrated by folks who never leave WDW property or would never think of dining at say Il Mulino, Shula's or Bluezoo at Swan/Dolphin or any of the Hotel Plaza options.

I don't know whether I agree with you on dining quality although I just had some very good meals ... the price points do play a part. I think some of them are well over the absurd line for theme park dining. And that factors into my opinion. The whole zaniness over booking locations six months out, leaving no tables open for locals/walk-ups and streamlining/homogenizing menus.

As far as additional attractions go, I don't have a full grasp on the necessary capacity at Epcot, but it seems that the decision to re-purpose a lot of offerings for special events was likely done because it was deemed that the additional capacity was unnecessary. As much as hardcore fans may have loved Wonders of Life and Horizons, it's tough to justify their maintenance, staffing, etc. if they were drawing crowds that would make Carousel of Progress' attendance look good! While, as I expressed earlier, I would love to see Disney just add-add-add without corresponding subtractions, the desire to add does have to be tempered with making additions without corresponding subtractions in places that they're necessary. Budgets are, unfortunately, finite.

Nah, EPCOT wasn't over-capacitated (is that a word?) Disney loses interest in FW pavilions when sponsors drop out leaving them on the hook for the costly upgrades and rehabs they require. WoL and Horizons would still exist today if they had MET Life and GE putting up millions of dollars.

As far as repurposing goes, once SE gets its hands on locations it tends to never give them back. Odyssey was supposed to be just a temp arrangement. Now ... Disney makes millions annually renting out huge portions of EPCOT for corporate (and private) clients especially with its huge convention business (see thread on Disney trying to use its might to prevent mega-casino resorts being built 200-250 miles away from its MAGICal gates).

Clearly, the Studios could use additions of family friendly attractions, but to achieve this due to space constraints, it might be pragmatic to remove the Backlot Tour or an unpopular stage show.

Agreed. Having a Backlot Tour with no film production is just dumb ... and Beauty and the Beast was NEVER supposed to stay for five years let alone 20!!!


Conversely, it seems to me the Magic Kingdom and Animal Kingdom need additions without corresponding subtractions to increase capacity in both parks. Like I said above, I don't have a full grasp on Epcot's capacity needs, but there I can understand making additions and corresponding subtractions. Intuitively, it makes sense to me, although I very well could be wrong. When it comes to little "plussings" that aren't going to have a significant expense to operate (require little to no staffing), I think these improvements should almost always be made without a corresponding subtraction. I think this type of thing is what best demonstrates the "Disney Difference."

Finally, the type of sentiment with which I strongly disagree is HMF's if Illuminations is replaced, Epcot will be "dead to me." Damning future projects before they're designed, much less announced or even premiere, does a disservice to the fan community, as it gives the impression that we're a bunch of crazy zealots.

Well, many are nuts to be fair, but a great deal of fans are sane and not zealots at all. And I agree with your sentiment. You can't have sacred cows.

On the one hand, Disney can't touch certain things because they have too much nostalgia attached to them and parks would be dead to us if these attractions were ever changed or replaced. On the other hand, Disney should constantly update and improve upon the experience. With such conflicting sentiments coming from, largely, the same community, it becomes difficult to take much of what the fan community says seriously.

Speaking only for myself, I favor progress and change, as long as it's positive change. While I would miss the present incarnation of Illuminations, if it's replaced by something better, I'd be pleased. Conversely, if change is not positive progress (see Journey into Imagination or Stitch's Great Escape), I feel justified in condemning it.

However, condemning something before it has even been announced, or condemning a change that might appeal to a broad spectrum of Guests but doesn't appeal to me personally (although I like them both, I view the Haunted Mansion queue and The Seas as examples of this), I view as counter-productive.

THIS!

~GFC~
 

CountryBearFan

Active Member
Excuses excuses.

With proper care, CBJ could have been just as popular as ever then. And CBJ Christmas was axed long before the Dream lights. And cutting something to have something else is never an excuse for anything.

Exactly.

The CBJ Xmas show NEVER had poor attendance and NEVER scored badly in guest surveys.

The source that told him that is completely wrong on that one.

The Castle Dreamlights are definetely NOT a substitute for CBJ Xmas nor were they intended to be. If you want to think of the Dreamlights as a replacement for anything, it would probably be for the Town Square Tree-Lighting Ceremony (which took place for the last time in 2006).

As far as I know, even though the guests do indeed enjoy the Dreamlights, they still do get large amounts of complaints about CBJ Xmas's absence and want it back.
 

Atomicmickey

Well-Known Member
But fans first have to be honest with themselves as to whether they are Disney parks fans or simply WDW fans (or addicts) before they even head to Anaheim. ... because once someone is addicted to things like buses and Disney controlling all the property you can see or all foamhead entertainment and being told HAVE A MAGICAL DAY 45 insincere times a day, it's very hard to break them of that.

~GFC~

Would that be my Disneyland trip report you're referring to?
I thought I gave a pretty balanced report. I enjoyed my Disneyland day.
I also spent a lot of time asking questions of myself, and have since.

What is foamhead entertainment? Just curious.
 

njDizFan

Well-Known Member
Would that be my Disneyland trip report you're referring to?
I thought I gave a pretty balanced report. I enjoyed my Disneyland day.
I also spent a lot of time asking questions of myself, and have since.

What is foamhead entertainment? Just curious.
Foamheads...That is Spirit's idiomatic expression for meet and greets.
 

wdwmagic

Administrator
Moderator
Premium Member
Exactly.

The CBJ Xmas show NEVER had poor attendance and NEVER scored badly in guest surveys.

The source that told him that is completely wrong on that one.

The Castle Dreamlights are definetely NOT a substitute for CBJ Xmas nor were they intended to be. If you want to think of the Dreamlights as a replacement for anything, it would probably be for the Town Square Tree-Lighting Ceremony (which took place for the last time in 2006).

As far as I know, even though the guests do indeed enjoy the Dreamlights, they still do get large amounts of complaints about CBJ Xmas's absence and want it back.

With your username and what you posted here I suspect you may have a little bias.
 

imagineer boy

Well-Known Member
Quote:
Originally Posted by WDW1974
... Hell, how about a new regular lagoon show too?
~GFC~



I'm OK with a few bodies lying around if that's what it takes to improve things from the status quo!:drevil:

Don't get me wrong, I love RoE (one of my favorite night shows of all time), but it wasn't designed to be permanent ... and even Don Dorsey has stated its time for a new show (or beyond that).

It's showing its age and its Y2K message really is a bit creepy since it came before 9/11 ... and Homeland Security ... and the TSA ... and airport assaults to board an aircraft ... and spying on citizens etc. It's almost the opposite of the hopeful start to a new century that was intended and Don himself has said to mutual friends that the music means something entirely different due to real world circumstances.

Let's not forget that EPCOT has always had great lagoon shows that have been replaced by more advanced ones ... no reason we are stuck with a 1999 show in 2011.

Oh, yeah there is ($$$).

~GFC~

Well, I personally feel ROE should be updated rather than replaced. Keep the format and keep the music, but update a lot of the effects and add fountians to the slow middle segment. Because I personally think the show as it is now is reall a masterpiece.
 

HMF

Well-Known Member
well, i personally feel roe should be updated rather than replaced. Keep the format and keep the music, but update a lot of the effects and add fountians to the slow middle segment. Because i personally think the show as it is now is reall a masterpiece.

exactly!
 

officeboy

Active Member
I love ROE. Update it, leave it alone, replace it with something better. WDW is not a museum. WDW exists (today) to turn my money loose from me, and to make a profit. I get it. You can't turn as big a profit if you are spending money you don't have to as a company.

Considering the age of ROE is it safe to assume some of the show uses outdated technology?

Are we in danger of losing this show?

I am only 1/2 kidding. The other half is asking a serious question.
 

Buried20KLeague

Well-Known Member
Well, I personally feel ROE should be updated rather than replaced. Keep the format and keep the music, but update a lot of the effects and add fountians to the slow middle segment. Because I personally think the show as it is now is reall a masterpiece.

I think I agree with this.

Be careful what you wish for when you ask for replacements. So many times, what they come back with just ain't as good. (SSE, Journey, Space, EEA, etc...)

Keep the music, update the globe, do a little something different with the slow middle portion.
 

WDW1974

Well-Known Member
Original Poster
Sometimes people have a tendency to attack those that like today over the "golden years"..and... well anything else they disagree with for that matter. I mean even talking about Via Napoli pizza gets people all up in arms yelling at one another.

I haven't had it yet. But food is definitel worth fighting over ... we are a morbidly obese nation after all (hey SoFla folks, today you can get a second Big Mac for a penny if you buy one!:ROFLOL:)

I have a hard time paying $40 for a pizza, even if you can share it with 2-3 others. But when a CM pal can get me a meal there for 50% off, I'll try it! :xmas:

~GFC~
 

WDW1974

Well-Known Member
Original Poster
DCL yes, Vero no. You've got me there. :). But I've been to the new local Disney store... What say you to that????

OK ... how many DCL? Any Transatlantics? And what about Hilton Head?!

I actually have a 'new' DS in one of my local malls, but haven't been yet, no. You can have that one!:ROFLOL:

But you have my word on Shanghai... Seriously. We've already talked about it. Just know that my brood would be in tow!!

I'm planning on being there. Have too many friends and while I've done three park openings (EC, Disney-MGM and DCA) -- how many have you done?:king: ... never done an MK opening. I also have lots of friends in China, so I'm always looking for a chance to head over to that vile, Godless, pinko, Commie country! :)

The only thing that would stop us would be an attractions list the size of HKDL. If they've got to count the model A's that drive down main street as an attraction, we'll be waiting for phase II to be completed, I'd bet!

That may be an issue. I'm still getting conflicting reports on whether the Pirates attraction is going in or just a Pirate stunt show. ... But everyone has said that what is being built is of top quality. So, I'll go ... besides, what do you do with about a million FF miles anyway? :cool::):king:

~GFC~
 

WDW1974

Well-Known Member
Original Poster
Would that be my Disneyland trip report you're referring to?
I thought I gave a pretty balanced report. I enjoyed my Disneyland day.
I also spent a lot of time asking questions of myself, and have since.


That would be it! I did read it. Just have been busy and no time to comment.

What is foamhead entertainment? Just curious.

Foamheads are what characters are affectionately (or not) referred to by folks in entertainment circles.

~GFC~
 

WDW1974

Well-Known Member
Original Poster
Well, I personally feel ROE should be updated rather than replaced. Keep the format and keep the music, but update a lot of the effects and add fountians to the slow middle segment. Because I personally think the show as it is now is reall a masterpiece.

You can't do that. All you can do is change some pyro and a few effects ... and that is no change at all.

You're still left with a show touting how great the new milennium will be ... and we all realize how that sure hasn't been the case at all.

You'd just bastardize an amazing show ... yet one that needs to be retired ... and, frankly, did 5-6 years ago now.

~GFC~
 

COProgressFan

Well-Known Member
Foamheads are what characters are affectionately (or not) referred to by folks in entertainment circles.

~GFC~

And "Foamhead entertainment" refers to shows and other forms of entertainment in the parks that involve canned music and college kids being paid $8/hr to prance around in character costumes, usually in lieu of live, skilled and talented musical performers (read: unionized and more expensive).

MK, is of course, the worst offender in this case. The "character dance parties" they have been trying to pass off as entertainment in recent years are just horrific.
 

WDW1974

Well-Known Member
Original Poster
Yep, CoP ... but hey, at least they get to open the DH every few months during free dining and use it as an overflow food and beverage locale.

~GFC~
 

Register on WDWMAGIC. This sidebar will go away, and you'll see fewer ads.

Back
Top Bottom