Animaniac93-98
Well-Known Member
Don't worry, you're not.
I'm also interested in all this WDW vs. all other parks talk, especially if I can go to DLP myself next year to see the differences.
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Meg and Co. Head West ...
- Thread starter WDW1974
- Start date
Don't worry, you're not.
I'm also interested in all this WDW vs. all other parks talk, especially if I can go to DLP myself next year to see the differences.
Buried20KLeague
Well-Known Member
Don't worry, you're not.
I'm also interested in all this WDW vs. all other parks talk, especially if I can go to DLP myself next year to see the differences.
You really should. It opens your eyes to a whole new "Disney World".
Pun intended.
And truthfully, if you can pick where you go... Go to tokyo. I would warn you though... Once you've seen perfection, there's no going back.
Animaniac93-98
Well-Known Member
I'm thinking of DLP next year for its 20th anniversary and Tokyo the year after for its 30th.
If I could go anywhere I would pick Tokyo, but I would feel annoyed (just a bit) if I missed out on some major feature (like the rumoured new parade) because I went a year "early".
asianway
Well-Known Member
What about the vacation hoedown? I much prefer it myself, and wasn't the whole point of the overlays a cheap way to spice up the attraction and get some butts in seats?
While were at it, they can bring back the Mile Long Bar and the missing heads.
Cosmic Commando
Well-Known Member
So I guess I'm the only one who likes new Epcot for what it is? I like Ellen, the Seas, Figment 2.0, Innoventions, Gran Fiesta Tour, Test Track, Kim Possible...
Pioneer Hall
Well-Known Member
RSoxNo1
Well-Known Member
Oh, friend, don't get me started! I'm trying to stay positive here!
I fell in love with Epcot upon its opening, and grew emotional over it by the late 80's. It's the emotional ties that keep me coming back, although some of the recent changes are actually an improvement over the 1982 originals. Am I really the only one who actually likes Gran Fiesta Tour better than El Rio Del Tiempo? (Not that I don't ADORE and miss the horribly kitschy video walls with the stereotype market salesman and those Early Reagan-era Swingers having margaritas in the swim up bar! But I was laughing at it then, not with it.)
There have been some painful missteps at Epcot in the last 15 years. Imagination, Spaceship Earth a few times, Test Track of the last decade, the Tombstones at the entrance, etc. But things have also been turning around lately; Nemo & Friends, Spaceship Earth version 3.4 or whatever we're on now, the digital conversion of film attractions, etc.
All that said, it's the connection I have to Epcot circa 1982-90 that keeps me coming back. And it's funny you zeroed in on it and mentioned it, because just yesterday I found the CD I made of all the original Epcot theme songs and was blasting it in the car as I ran errands yesterday! :lookaroun
As I write this, I'm wearing my World of Motion t-shirt.
For me, Epcot is 3rd or 4th amongst the current parks. My interest in World Showcase isn't that strong, although I find myself spending more time there in recent years. I do feel that the food offerings in World Showcase aren't as strong as they've been made out to be with the biggest change in the last 10 years happening at the Cantina. It's awful now.
I enjoy Test Track and I'm optimistic about the refurbishment. I really enjoy Soarin' but do feel that if in fact the "clean room" for the projectors is the issue, that it is a necessary upgrade if and when they make Soarin' Around the World (or whatever the next iteration is).
I'm amongst the few (sorry HMF) that was bored by the original Seas Pavilion, and I love going to zoos and aquariums. There just wasn't enough to draw me into that building prior to Turtle Talk and now to a lesser extent The Seas with Nemo and Friends. Now that I'm in there I will spend time watching the manatees, dolphins and other exhibits depending on who I'm with.
I do miss classic Epcot and I do understand why some changes were made. What bothers me, and what should bother others are the dormant or "might as well be" dormant buildings that exist.
I know it sounds like a broken record, but was Horizons in such bad shape that it couldn't have been refurbished with Mission: SPACE being built next to it?
Ellen's Energy Adventure is the oldest pavilion in Future World and while she is still very relevant, the show is 5-10 years past its prime. I watched it last month and while the novelty of it was amusing (and the air conditioning rewarding), it seemed that their list of energy sources came from a few hours of playing Sim City 2000.
I get the need for special event buildings but is it necessary to have The Odyssey, Wonders of Life and Millennium Village?
I love IllumiNations, but the Earth Globe needs to be replaced or enlarged - it is not an effective storytelling tool. To me, The Seas with Nemo and Friends revitalized a dying pavilion - the ride was far from earth shattering, but neither were the original Sea Cabs. As for the dumbed down Spaceship Earth script - I won't pretend to defend that.
I agree that the script is lousy, and that Dame Judy Dench doesn't have the dramatic voice required for narrating this attraction. Couple that with the original rumor that the voice was going to be Patrick Stewart and there is a significant reason for disappointment there. I don't blame Judy Dench though, she didn't write the script.
What bothers me about Spaceship Earth is that the fixes shouldn't be difficult. The animatronic improvements are a huge positive. I know I'm not alone in wishing to have experienced Horizons full of top notch AA's like the current Spaceship Earth. But so much of the expensive investments in Spaceship Earth have been accounted for, the changes needed for the attraction are relatively inexpensive:
- Re-Write the script and re-record with a more dramatic voice
- Sync the line "On this, our Spaceship Earth" so that it corresponds to the reveal of the Earth at the top of the ride
- If we must keep the whimsical version of our future, add other elements to the descent. This can take a variety of forms such as fiber optic lighting, orchestral music (how about an instrumental version of Tomorrow's Child?), or at worst the ability to see the cartoon characters from surrounding cars. All these would be better options than nothing.
Cosmic Commando
Well-Known Member
The Earth globe in Illuminations is a cool idea, but I agree that there's not enough "screen" to really see what the heck is going on. Perhaps instead of replacing it completely, they could put LEDs on the oceans as well. I mean, water covers 70% of the Earth's surface, so that would be a major bump in viewable area. If the whole thing was covered in LEDs, then you could still show the continents when you want to, so it wouldn't really detract from the "this is the Earth" idea.
Also Tim, I hate you for telling me that we could've had Patrick Steward on SSE. I never had any problem with the new SSE until I heard that.
Also Tim, I hate you for telling me that we could've had Patrick Steward on SSE. I never had any problem with the new SSE until I heard that.
jt04
Well-Known Member
Yes. The earth barge would be perfect at DTD. They need a much larger display or several display for Illuminations IMO.
WDWFigment
Well-Known Member
I agree with most of this.
I think the food in World Showcase is way overrated, but I think most of the dining changes in recent years have been for the better. Although I'm also in the minority that thinks dining quality is presently on the upswing (except prices, which are suffering inflation due to the DDP).
As far as additional attractions go, I don't have a full grasp on the necessary capacity at Epcot, but it seems that the decision to re-purpose a lot of offerings for special events was likely done because it was deemed that the additional capacity was unnecessary. As much as hardcore fans may have loved Wonders of Life and Horizons, it's tough to justify their maintenance, staffing, etc. if they were drawing crowds that would make Carousel of Progress' attendance look good! While, as I expressed earlier, I would love to see Disney just add-add-add without corresponding subtractions, the desire to add does have to be tempered with making additions without corresponding subtractions in places that they're necessary. Budgets are, unfortunately, finite.
Clearly, the Studios could use additions of family friendly attractions, but to achieve this due to space constraints, it might be pragmatic to remove the Backlot Tour or an unpopular stage show. Conversely, it seems to me the Magic Kingdom and Animal Kingdom need additions without corresponding subtractions to increase capacity in both parks. Like I said above, I don't have a full grasp on Epcot's capacity needs, but there I can understand making additions and corresponding subtractions. Intuitively, it makes sense to me, although I very well could be wrong. When it comes to little "plussings" that aren't going to have a significant expense to operate (require little to no staffing), I think these improvements should almost always be made without a corresponding subtraction. I think this type of thing is what best demonstrates the "Disney Difference."
Finally, the type of sentiment with which I strongly disagree is HMF's if Illuminations is replaced, Epcot will be "dead to me." Damning future projects before they're designed, much less announced or even premiere, does a disservice to the fan community, as it gives the impression that we're a bunch of crazy zealots.
On the one hand, Disney can't touch certain things because they have too much nostalgia attached to them and parks would be dead to us if these attractions were ever changed or replaced. On the other hand, Disney should constantly update and improve upon the experience. With such conflicting sentiments coming from, largely, the same community, it becomes difficult to take much of what the fan community says seriously.
Speaking only for myself, I favor progress and change, as long as it's positive change. While I would miss the present incarnation of Illuminations, if it's replaced by something better, I'd be pleased. Conversely, if change is not positive progress (see Journey into Imagination or Stitch's Great Escape), I feel justified in condemning it.
However, condemning something before it has even been announced, or condemning a change that might appeal to a broad spectrum of Guests but doesn't appeal to me personally (although I like them both, I view the Haunted Mansion queue and The Seas as examples of this), I view as counter-productive.
RSoxNo1
Well-Known Member
You're right, in part regarding Epcot's Capacity, but think back to 1997, nothing in that park ever had a wait. This is a function of ridiculously large capacity attractions that far exceeded demand. Horizons was one of these attractions. I know some people have old operations books for Horizons and Wonders of Life, I'd be curious to know what their actual capacity was. I wouldn't be suprised if either one was 1.5x - 2x Test Track. That's part of the "problem" with Mission: SPACE is that they made too many centrifuges anticipating ridiculous demand. In hindsight, that budget should have gone towards a 3rd screen for Soarin' (this being said with absolutely no knowledge of the relative costs of each).
If Epcot replaces an attraction that can accommodate 2000 people per hour and has a demand of 1500 people per hour with a new attraction that accommodates 1500 per hour but has a guest demand of 2000, it would be a positive for the park. But if your assertion is correct that additions are only being made for capacity reasons, then I fear Epcot won't be getting any substantial additions any time soon.
WDWFigment
Well-Known Member
Well, that's not necessarily my assertion of how I think things should always be, but, like I said above, right now I think that when dealing with the slate of attractions (considering only rides and shows), it would probably be pragmatic to think of capacity and demand first.
It appears to me that the expansion at the Magic Kingdom and Animal Kingdom are taking this into consideration. While DAK doesn't necessarily seem to have capacity issues (to my eyes), increasing its offerings without corresponding subtractions is important to help it round out its slate of offerings and increase Guest demand for the park. I wouldn't be surprised if DAK has WDW's second highest attendance by 2020.
Alektronic
Well-Known Member
I'm worried about losing my job, but my supervisors and managers are worried about theirs and it shows. I think that is why they are afraid to do anything except what their boss tells them to do. They don't like going to the Reliability meetings where the Director is going to yell at them or just ask them many questions they can't answer.
Another change in doing things is they don't like to promote within anymore, it seems like don't technical managers (someone who actually knows what is going on) but they would rather have generic managers who know about budgets and accounting. So they hire new people off the street who don't have a clue what is going on and they hoping the hourly workers will train them!! Most of them don't have a clue!! Then try to fit into the Disney Culture also and they don't understand how things are done. I have talked to some new engineers that have never been to a Disney Park in their whole life, but they are working on it and trying to design something. And they don't like listening to people who have been working there to 30-40 years.
whylightbulb
Well-Known Member
It's the same with WDI as well. Many times I come in as a contractor and end up working under some snobby WDI employee that was in college or working as a graphics artist for a magazine back when I was at WDI working under the tutelage of brilliant designers such as John Hench, Claude Coats, and Marc Davis while they were in their final days. Those guys had every right to be snobby and most of the time were quite the opposite. Many of the new guys being hired now don't have one-percent the talent or knowledge yet act as though we should be kissing the ground they walk upon.
Oh, friend, don't get me started! I'm trying to stay positive here!
I fell in love with Epcot upon its opening, and grew emotional over it by the late 80's. It's the emotional ties that keep me coming back, although some of the recent changes are actually an improvement over the 1982 originals. Am I really the only one who actually likes Gran Fiesta Tour better than El Rio Del Tiempo? (Not that I don't ADORE and miss the horribly kitschy video walls with the stereotype market salesman and those Early Reagan-era Swingers having margaritas in the swim up bar! But I was laughing at it then, not with it.)
There have been some painful missteps at Epcot in the last 15 years. Imagination, Spaceship Earth a few times, Test Track of the last decade, the Tombstones at the entrance, etc. But things have also been turning around lately; Nemo & Friends, Spaceship Earth version 3.4 or whatever we're on now, the digital conversion of film attractions, etc.
All that said, it's the connection I have to Epcot circa 1982-90 that keeps me coming back. And it's funny you zeroed in on it and mentioned it, because just yesterday I found the CD I made of all the original Epcot theme songs and was blasting it in the car as I ran errands yesterday! :lookaroun
We be kindred Spirits.
It was the EPCOT of the 1980s that made me a Disney Fanboi for life. Before then, I liked WDW ... enjoyed visiting, but EC ... the scope, the grandeur, the detail, the quality, the VISION ... well, that did it for me. And I was there from Day 1!
And while Epcot is still my favorite WDW park, it is a far smaller, less impressive place than it was in say 1991.
~GFC~
We hit up DLP in 2009. It was the last jewel in the "WorldWide Crown" for me. :king:
Don't forget... I circled the Disney Earth before YOU, young Paduwan!
I am just thrilled (being a Disney Hating Spirit and all) that I hit every park/resort. For some reason I thought you hadn't been to Paris when we crossed paths in the real world.
Doesn't matter ... we're still all royalty!:king:
Now, have you been on any DCL voyages, what about stays at Vero Beach and Hilton Head? Let's see who's really king!:drevil::king::ROFLOL:
Hey, wanna meet me at the opening of SDL?
~GFC~
Quote:
Originally Posted by WDW1974
... Hell, how about a new regular lagoon show too?
~GFC~
I'm OK with a few bodies lying around if that's what it takes to improve things from the status quo!:drevil:
Don't get me wrong, I love RoE (one of my favorite night shows of all time), but it wasn't designed to be permanent ... and even Don Dorsey has stated its time for a new show (or beyond that).
It's showing its age and its Y2K message really is a bit creepy since it came before 9/11 ... and Homeland Security ... and the TSA ... and airport assaults to board an aircraft ... and spying on citizens etc. It's almost the opposite of the hopeful start to a new century that was intended and Don himself has said to mutual friends that the music means something entirely different due to real world circumstances.
Let's not forget that EPCOT has always had great lagoon shows that have been replaced by more advanced ones ... no reason we are stuck with a 1999 show in 2011.
Oh, yeah there is ($$$).
~GFC~
Originally Posted by WDW1974
... Hell, how about a new regular lagoon show too?
~GFC~
I'm OK with a few bodies lying around if that's what it takes to improve things from the status quo!:drevil:
Don't get me wrong, I love RoE (one of my favorite night shows of all time), but it wasn't designed to be permanent ... and even Don Dorsey has stated its time for a new show (or beyond that).
It's showing its age and its Y2K message really is a bit creepy since it came before 9/11 ... and Homeland Security ... and the TSA ... and airport assaults to board an aircraft ... and spying on citizens etc. It's almost the opposite of the hopeful start to a new century that was intended and Don himself has said to mutual friends that the music means something entirely different due to real world circumstances.
Let's not forget that EPCOT has always had great lagoon shows that have been replaced by more advanced ones ... no reason we are stuck with a 1999 show in 2011.
Oh, yeah there is ($$$).
~GFC~
Ain't that the truth?
They have no idea what they are missing, do they?
I have to admit, though, that I am glad I did them in the order I did (DLP, HKDL and then TDR). Paris is really the best place for the first 'foreign' Disney experience because language isn't an issue and even the resort set-up (two parks, multiple hotels, Village entertainment complex) is more familiar.
And I'm really glad I did HKDL before TDR because if I had done the reverse I would have probably been very disappointed. But this way ... well, I love and appreciate the little kingdom on Lantau so much more (although last year was glaring as I did HKDL in October followed by TDR in November/December and then back to HKDL in December before heading home).
But fans first have to be honest with themselves as to whether they are Disney parks fans or simply WDW fans (or addicts) before they even head to Anaheim. ... because once someone is addicted to things like buses and Disney controlling all the property you can see or all foamhead entertainment and being told HAVE A MAGICAL DAY 45 insincere times a day, it's very hard to break them of that.
~GFC~
unkadug
Follower of "Saget"The Cult
Just out of curiosity, what do you know about SkyDance? You know that "New" show that Don Dorsey was working on (but was never publicly announced) for Epcot that just disappeared a few years ago?
HMF
Well-Known Member
Reflections of Earth needs to be updated not replaced, It's message is so critical especially in today's world. It would literally break my heart if it were replaced. "Skydance" is a pathetic name anyway.