Major DTD update

I

Ignohippo

Well-Known Member
Mouse Detective said:
This has been well-discussed on here. There was definitely an agenda against PI (mainly by TDO) and they did all they could to make it fail.



I agree. PI was segregated quite nicely on its own island. Any future adult entertainment district needs to be too.
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Both replies are nonsense. TDO WANTING PI to do poorly is purely speculation. I think it's horrible that they closed PI too, but you can't start thinking the speculation is suddenly fact. Not everything is a huge conspiracy.

I'm sure the powers at TDO that wanted it closed had the power to do so at any time. They didn't need to sabotage it to finally be able to remove it.

And the only way for adult offerings to succeed at a new re-imagined DTD is if the crowds are dispursed throughout rather than congregating in one area like they did at the old PI.
 
WDW1974

WDW1974

Well-Known Member
xdan0920 said:
He went into that actually. He is saying Epcot is running two trams often now, and in the past they ran only one, and sometimes none. That indicates much more people parking in the lots.
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He's right. ... I don't know how many days in the past 3-4 years that I've even seen one tram working at EPCOT.

xdan0920 said:
His knowledge is impressive. But he has an agenda, and he can't let it go. It becomes tiresome.
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Yes. He hates WDI. They didn't hire him. And he may even have a beef that's legit. The place has plenty of folks that aren't talented. ... But he needs to let it go. Very few of us get to be Imagineers and we live wonderful, happy and productive lives. Some of us accomplish great things and can say later 'you guys screwed up on me, but you see that now' ... I really hope that's what happens with him. ... We don't need him being as crazy as some other blogger who used to post here!
 
I

Ignohippo

Well-Known Member
71jason said:
Only TDO could think "Retail is dying--could it be the merch for sale? No, it must be people can't get to the location (even though it has its own giant parking lot)."
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They can only rent out the space to the companies that want to rent it out. I doubt there's ever been a mad rush to rent out space on the West Side.

As I said before, retail hasn't worked on the West Side because it was never meant to stand on its own. The retail was meant to be spread out among all three areas. Once it was evident that retail would never succeed in PI, it was doomed because it meant that there would be no way of having a congruent DTD.
 
WDW1974

WDW1974

Well-Known Member
Ignohippo said:
Both replies are nonsense. TDO WANTING PI to do poorly is purely speculation. I think it's horrible that they closed PI too, but you can't start thinking the speculation is suddenly fact. Not everything is a huge conspiracy.

I'm sure ther powers at TDO that wanted it closed had the power to do so at any time. They didn't need to sabotage it to finally be able to remove it.

And the only way for adult offerings to succeed at a new re-imagined DTD is if the crowds are dispursed throughout rather than congregating in one area like they did at the old PI.
Click to expand...

This is gonna be my only comment (I hope to Tinker Bell!) on the topic, but TDO absolutely did want PI to fail and die starting around 2000-2001. They wanted third parties, they didn't want to pay the entertainment. They didn't want to freshen clubs, which you HAVE to do.

Look at Vegas resorts, The Mirage or MGM Grand or Aria may have an amazing hot happening locale now ... and two years from now (and millions of dollars later) they'll replace it with something else.

Clubs need to be reinvented regularly and Disney had no appetite for that whatsoever, so they killed PI by neglect and used their own work to justify shuttering it.

That is a fact. beyond that ... well, it's all been said and argued.
 
I

Ignohippo

Well-Known Member
WDW1974 said:
This is gonna be my only comment (I hope to Tinker Bell!) on the topic, but TDO absolutely did want PI to fail and die starting around 2000-2001. They wanted third parties, they didn't want to pay the entertainment. They didn't want to freshen clubs, which you HAVE to do.

Look at Vegas resorts, The Mirage or MGM Grand or Aria may have an amazing hot happening locale now ... and two years from now (and millions of dollars later) they'll replace it with something else.

Clubs need to be reinvented regularly and Disney had no appetite for that whatsoever, so they killed PI by neglect and used their own work to justify shuttering it.

That is a fact. beyond that ... well, it's all been said and argued.
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Tinker Bell?

I agree there were some that wanted it closed, but they didn't need to sabotage the area to do so. They could have simply closed it at any time (which is exactly what they ended up doing).

I'm only arguing with the statement that they lowered the gates only as a conspiracy to destroy PI. Lowering the gates was simply an attempt to make the whole area one continuous DTD.

I am not arguing at all that some at TDO wanted it closed.
 
Rasvar

Rasvar

Well-Known Member
WDW1974 said:
This is gonna be my only comment (I hope to Tinker Bell!) on the topic, but TDO absolutely did want PI to fail and die starting around 2000-2001. They wanted third parties, they didn't want to pay the entertainment. They didn't want to freshen clubs, which you HAVE to do.

Look at Vegas resorts, The Mirage or MGM Grand or Aria may have an amazing hot happening locale now ... and two years from now (and millions of dollars later) they'll replace it with something else.

Clubs need to be reinvented regularly and Disney had no appetite for that whatsoever, so they killed PI by neglect and used their own work to justify shuttering it.

That is a fact. beyond that ... well, it's all been said and argued.
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I will back up this that PI really changed when most of the control shifted from entertainment management to Food and Beverage. I'm still not sure they were trying to kill it as much as they put idiots in charge of it. If they weren't idiots, then it was an attempt to kill. Come 2000ish, all creativity died at PI. NYE was run into the ground. The entertainment draws were slowly eliminated. Even at Comedy Warehouse and Adventurers Club where many of the shows would occasionally be refreshed and changed stagnated. I have not been here for the prior arguments but I was a constant patron of PI from opening day in '89 until around 2002 when it really lost its appeal to me. I will stop here to avoid re-hashing what appears to be old arguments.
 
TarzanRocked99-

TarzanRocked99-

Well-Known Member
jt04 said:
Simple question then. Why is there no swimming anymore at the FW beach? Or did they lift that restriction?
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Simple answer - insurance liabilities simple as that. And river country closed because it was convenient for them to do so after 9/11 and the attendance numbers dropped. Yet another simple answer.
 
L

Longhairbear

Well-Known Member
What DTD really needs for an adult fanboi/fangal after park hours destination is themed bars like Trader Sam's that is poolside at the Disneyland Hotel.
Trader Sam's combines the Tiki Room with the Jungle Cruise and has a decent crowd every time we have been at the DLR. We even got sucked into spending dollars to buy the various Tiki mugs the drinks were served in. It's a profitable Adventurers Club.
Tang flavored Screwdrivers, and Blue Curacao sombreos in the Tomorrowland Star Wars Cantina, Kiss O Death Appletini's in a Fantasyland themed roadside inn. A Frontierland saloon just begs for a real Mint Julep, beer, and upper crust quality brandy, and whisky with a quality cigar (selling) smoking patio.
I'll let the haters rant about booze and cigarettes, but that's a factor in today's world. Take a look at how many are blowing smoke in the non smoking balconies of the various WDW Resorts.
 
71jason

71jason

Well-Known Member
A couple things, Longhairbear...

(1) "Profitable Adventurers Club" is a redundency (and think how profitable Sams would be with a $25 cover!)

(2) How is your plan any different from what PI was--other than having a fairy tale princess-themed bar that would appeal to the 0.1% of the population who are fanbois rather than, say, an 70/80s theme or big city club theme that would appeal to the majority of people age 21 - 49?

But more importantly, forgetting what DTD coulda/shoulda/woulda been, and why River County is no more, can anyone (OP, looking in your general direction) name JUST ONE business that will be a part of the new DTD?
 
wdw71fan

wdw71fan

Well-Known Member
Tim_4 said:
Very sorry if this has already been posted but I've lost all stamina to keep up with the reading around here so I'll try to limit my posting to when I have new, legitimate news/rumors. Today it's two pieces of info about DTD.

I've been told that the DTD expansion will include, at the very least, a parking structure and a new on/off ramp directly to/from I-4. The expansion will include various efforts to make DTD the "go-to" entertainment venue for locals.

The budget is estimated to be somewhere in the "New Fantasyland" range.
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While all of the above is true, nothing has been 'green lit'...
 
M

Mouse Detective

Well-Known Member
Ignohippo said:
I agree there were some that wanted it closed, but they didn't need to sabotage the area to do so. They could have simply closed it at any time (which is exactly what they ended up doing).
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The decision wasn't there's to make; they had to convince California. So while I agree with you that taking down PI's gates was itself just an attempt to connect all 3 sides of DTD to each other (and allow retail on PI to gain customers), there was a continuous stream of other decisions that made PI more and more boring and no longer worth the cover charge. Those decisions were deliberate and designed to decrease patronage. And post #204 above from WDW1974 gives additional background.
 
John

John

Well-Known Member
wdw71fan said:
While all of the above is true, nothing has been 'green lit'...
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ummmmmmmmmm can you say Hyperion Warf-ish, once again Its starting to have that smell. Just when you think it couldnt get any worse.....someone comes on here and lays a big brown steamer......uggggggg. There was a time I loved DTD, the unique stores, PI was one of the best entertainment areas in the country. Sure....I know its packed all the time, why? you tell me? IMO, those folks that are not in the parks and are stranded on property dont think they have other choices. They dont go to BW, they dont play mini golf ( i know some of you do) in large numbers. They walk around DTD with glazed over eyes....on a pixie dust high, people watching. I like the question posed by another....what third party vendors want to lease space at DTD? If they had such a demand something would have been done al;ready. As I have said numerous times. Disney has left a ton of money on the table with the shuttered area known as PI.
 
HenryMystic

HenryMystic

Well-Known Member
71jason said:
But more importantly, forgetting what DTD coulda/shoulda/woulda been, and why River County is no more, can anyone (OP, looking in your general direction) name JUST ONE business that will be a part of the new DTD?
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No one ever wants to answer this...not even with hypos.

Still waiting on Zach Divine ;-)
 
jt04

jt04

Well-Known Member
71jason said:
But more importantly, forgetting what DTD coulda/shoulda/woulda been, and why River County is no more, can anyone (OP, looking in your general direction) name JUST ONE business that will be a part of the new DTD?
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Um, Splitsville? :cool:

BTW, there is an amazing amount of scaffolding up as they have really gotten going on the exterior. And we are getting a brand new volcano! Tide is turning!

I have never been to Mars but I know it is dusty. Just saying. :D

I think I found my new signature.
 

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