Major DTD update

c-one

Well-Known Member
The problem is the West Side was not originally geared toward children. Bongos, Puck, HoB, Cirque, Virgin, art galleries, a guitar store--it was clearly meant to be an adult counterpart to the Marketplace with its RFC and various toy stores, not to mention a CityWalk ripoff. But WDW lost thier nerve--or more likely couldn't find enough tenants--threw in DQ and the already waning PH and ended up making a confused jumble that still struggles to find its identity.
Yep. Marketplace was family, PI was party, West Side was (theoretically) somewhere between the two, a classy grownup night out. The layout was screwed up to begin with and then Disneyquest made things really odd. The initial expansion could have been more successful if they didn't expand in a linear fashion along the water, IMO -- despite the scenic benefits.
 

Doombuggy13

Active Member
Very sorry if this has already been posted but I've lost all stamina to keep up with the reading around here so I'll try to limit my posting to when I have new, legitimate news/rumors. Today it's two pieces of info about DTD.

I've been told that the DTD expansion will include, at the very least, a parking structure and a new on/off ramp directly to/from I-4. The expansion will include various efforts to make DTD the "go-to" entertainment venue for locals.

The budget is estimated to be somewhere in the "New Fantasyland" range.

Budget in the New Fantasyland range, all the plans for Avatarland and the Yeti is still in Disco Mode. Something is not right here!
 

baymenxpac

Well-Known Member
The problem is the West Side was not originally geared toward children. Bongos, Puck, HoB, Cirque, Virgin, art galleries, a guitar store--it was clearly meant to be an adult counterpart to the Marketplace with its RFC and various toy stores, not to mention a CityWalk ripoff. But WDW lost thier nerve--or more likely couldn't find enough tenants--threw in DQ and the already waning PH and ended up making a confused jumble that still struggles to find its identity.

BINGO! they lost their nerve. 100%. if you remember the old west side ads, even on disney TV inside the resorts, they were done in the same way PI's were done. the sultry, adult-targeted voice over. if i had to guess at what internal expectations where, i'd say it was to come to say...house of blues for dinner and a concert, then go to PI for drinks and dancing. adults' night out on the disney town.

let's face it: at some point, there was a diametric shift towards toddlerworld, USA. "but...but...there's no place the KIDS will like! they'll be bored!" SO. WHAT.

i've said it in other threads, and i'll say it again. if disney wants to be a place where a family of four is the only puzzle piece that fits in just right, they're doomed.
 

Ignohippo

Well-Known Member
It worked for a decade+ before the gates were taken down from PI.

No. It really didn't. If that's the case, they never would have changed. Removing the gates was the first attempt at creating a contiguous DTD. If that hadn't been a problem, they never would have done that.

People would go to the Marketplace to shop or they'd go to the West Side to eat – but they'd hardly, if ever, do both. Retail was dying on the West Side yet flourishing in the Marketplace. The other problem was/is people go to the Marketplace to shop, but then leave to eat at a restaurant off-property.
 

Ignohippo

Well-Known Member
I have said this before a number of times. The West Side is the proof that Pleasure Island was a success and that Disney wanted more. It was a shopping and dining expansion of Pleasure Island, not more of the Marketplace. That's why Pleasure Island blocking traffic between the two was not seen as a concern, because Pleasure Island was very much supposed to block those outside the targeted audience.


Pleasure Island blocking traffic wasn't a concern because they thought they could get enough retail into PI so that it wouldn't be an issue. They tried everything to get retail to work there, but it never did.
 

71jason

Well-Known Member
BINGO! they lost their nerve. 100%. if you remember the old west side ads, even on disney TV inside the resorts, they were done in the same way PI's were done. the sultry, adult-targeted voice over. if i had to guess at what internal expectations where, i'd say it was to come to say...house of blues for dinner and a concert, then go to PI for drinks and dancing. adults' night out on the disney town.

Exactly. To borrow terminology from elsewhere around property, it was an attempt to turn PI from a half-night park into an all-night park. Rather than arriving around 9 or 10, guests would arrive around 6 or 7 and eat and browse for a bit. Eventually, around 11, start shutting down West Side and force everyone toward PI.

May have worked, may not have (they may have been going a bit too upscale for WDW, honestly). But I think that was clearly the original intent.

let's face it: at some point, there was a diametric shift towards toddlerworld, USA. "but...but...there's no place the KIDS will like! they'll be bored!" SO. WHAT.

i've said it in other threads, and i'll say it again. if disney wants to be a place where a family of four is the only puzzle piece that fits in just right, they're doomed.

QFT
 

Mouse Detective

Well-Known Member
Oh, please. They didn't do it because they purposely had some agenda against PI. That's ridiculous.

This has been well-discussed on here. There was definitely an agenda against PI (mainly by TDO) and they did all they could to make it fail.

The problem with "adult" entertainment is that you can't bring children through it. I'm ALL for a segregated adult/club area like the closed-gate days of PI but the average Disney family doesn't want to walk through a top-40 or hip-hop dance crowd going from the candy store to their AMC showing of Fuzzykins Goes to the Zoo.

I agree. PI was segregated quite nicely on its own island. Any future adult entertainment district needs to be too.
 

xdan0920

Think for yourselfer
Don't know Murph, don't know his background--I do know 12 years as a local gives you insight into an area even knowledgeable tourists often lack. Possible he doesn't know about the "secret" parking lot--the vast majority of guests don't. And that's not a slam, there's no real signage for it--I first learned about it through word of mouth. But as someone who still goes to DTD at least twice a week, I can tell you it's NEVER close to even half-full.

Interesting theory on the cars, but you would think the effect would be more pronounced at, say, MK. Driving past that lot 2 to 4 times a week this Summer, I can't say that's been the case. Even Fourth of July I don't think they had opened the farthest-most Villian lot. Wouldn't we be hearing about MK and DHS closing thier lots due to capacity more?

(For the record, I know fewer guests are using ME. However, most WDW lots were built for a different, pre-ME era, and are therefore so big that any bump in cars won't be all that noticeable. I think the boom in restaurants along West 192, as just one example, is far more telling.)

He went into that actually. He is saying Epcot is running two trams often now, and in the past they ran only one, and sometimes none. That indicates much more people parking in the lots.

Wow his tweets are even worse then his blog..

I just spent a few minutes reading his recent ones.. and wow.. I wish I had that time back. Really.

His knowledge is impressive. But he has an agenda, and he can't let it go. It becomes tiresome.
 

WDW1974

Well-Known Member
So, just to clarify, the closing of River Country had nothing to do with the amoeba supposedly in the water? I've heard a few rumours behind the reason why it closed and I never understood why, if the reason was the amoeba, Disney never publicly said so; for me, the serious risk of potentially deadly bacteria in the water would have been good enough. The longer its gone on without any kind of comment, the more I've wondered whether Disney see the amoeba rumours as a conveniant cop-out.

Absolutely none. NADA. Great myth that people have made up on their own, Disney didn't even start the lie. CMs/Fanbois and good old urban legend based on something that has been in FLA freshwater as long as people have been here. ... But now, Disney doesn't mind listening as the misinformation spreads ... just like the BAH being there because of 'contractural rights issues over the Chinese Theater' ... all BS.
 

WDW1974

Well-Known Member
I disagree completely. The reason PI isn't around is because it was a roadblock between the two retail sections. As a poster said earlier, no one wants to bring little Johnny through a crowd of people who have been partying. PI has a place, but the way it was designed was a huge turnoff to anyone with families.

As for the hotels, the hotels in the DTD area certainly don't have a problem bringing in guests as it is now. Double or triple the size of DTD (and add some options for adults) and those hotels won't be able to keep up with the 10-20% increase in demand. And, as close as those are, I still wouldn't call them within walking distance for most people.

PI was never supposed to be in the middle of anything. It was supposed to be its own unique destination at the end of the Village. Adding the Westside the way Disney did sort of changed everything up.

And I saw so much bad parenting, even in its heyday, losers thought bars were fine locales for 8-year-olds. I remember being at PI and using an adult word (one that you might use for your pet kitty, Mr. Pickles) and actually having a parent (with a cig and a beer in his hands) tell me of. I told him his little angel didn't belong there and that I had no desire to talk to Disney Security after I got his tossed for attempting to place his hand on my shoulder.

So what were we talking about? Social Media?

Oh, hotels. Yeah, DD doesn't need more. WDW doesn't need more. Metro O-Town doesn't need more. They don't.

Maybe in a decade they will. Not now.
 

WDW1974

Well-Known Member
For what its worth...

Murph aka was on a twitter tirade yesterday talking about how the parking situation at DTD is actually becoming much worse. In fact, parking everywhere is getting way busier. He postersizes that the reason behind this is, less and less guests are using Magical Express. Because, more and more guests are opting to spend more and more time off property, thereby facilitating the need to have a car.

So Tim might be in the right here. Maybe the parking situation really is getting bad.

He's always on a tirade about something.

I wish he could harness the anger (and his brains) for good ... but I get the feeling he just wants to be known as the Fanboi Who Knows the Most About EPCOT Center.

Again, though, he is definitely correct in the larger point. I've heard this too ... more guests arriving with cars or renting them equals more traffic and more crowded lots, but actually portends worse business for Disney.
 

WDW1974

Well-Known Member
Simple question then. Why is there no swimming anymore at the FW beach? Or did they lift that restriction?

They eliminated swimming at all the resorts a good 10-15 years ago ... and most of it was simply wading ... which I'd do all the time at the WL and Contemporary.

Why? Legal reasons I'm sure. Chances for people to drown. Or have a run in with a snake ... I saw one in the water at the Poly 4-5 summers ago while waiting for pyro and there were plenty of kids in the water despite the signs.

It's largely like putting a 'Do Not Climb' sign on something you know people will climb on.

The water at RC was not part of Bay Lake per se. It was filtered as it entered the park ... to what degree, I have no clue, I'd see fish swimming with me a lot there.

But there was no inherent danger to anyone ... just to Disney's bottom line. I wonder what they'll have to pay out if three or four kids sneak into the mess that's left and drown?
 

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