Lines at the FP+ entrances

[Buried20KLeague]

if they don't 'fix' the lines at FP+ entrances... they are going to do long term harm to the image.

This is exactly what happened at DL... DL locals spit at FP.. in large part due to the poor implementation of FP in the park when it came where WHERE they put things, how they modified queues, etc. Basically the side-effects became so galvanizing... it was even more fuel for the anti-FP crowd.

Same thing will play out here in WDW if they don't fix this. Tape on the ground or extra CMs walking the line aren't fixes.

I'm sure the DL crowd will embrace FP+ with open arms though.

Ha.

 

[Buried20KLeague]

Shocking, huh?

From you? Nah. Not really.

 

[wdisney9000]

You mean like the "fake" picture I took of the FP+ line in November at BTMRR?

View attachment 46476

Here is another fake picture from BTMR, I apologize for the lame 2 dimensional aspect as I did not have my 4th dimensional camera that uses precogs to determine future behavior and captures trajectory angles of guests and shows emotional status with thought pattern and back ground story. (the yellow arrow is where my wife is and she has her hand in the air, Red arrow is end of FP+ line) this was in late January

 

[wdisney9000]

Disney wanted to change guest behavior with FP+. They wanted guests to preplan. Obviously (at least to me ), preplanning should result in a higher FP+ redemption rate.

What are your thoughts on "guest behavior" as far as people switching their FP+ selection when they arrive at an attraction and the wait time is short so they do standby and get on MDE and switch their FP+ to something else? It seems that people use this option frequently and Im wondering if Disney took into account how often people would use it. It could be a factor they underestimated and are now playing catch up to re-write their guest behavior algorithm.???

 

[ParentsOf4]

What are your thoughts on "guest behavior" as far as people switching their FP+ selection when they arrive at an attraction and the wait time is short so they do standby and get on MDE and switch their FP+ to something else? It seems that people use this option frequently and Im wondering if Disney took into account how often people would use it. It could be a factor they underestimated and are now playing catch up to re-write their guest behavior algorithm.???

At 3 of WDW's 4 theme parks, what are they going to switch to?

With attraction tiering in place at Epcot and DHS, my biggest problem is finding 3 attractions that are worth FastPassing.

The only park that has more than 3 attractions worth FastPassing is MK. Switching there depends on availability.

For example, weeks before I went to MK on the Wednesday before Thanksgiving (a very busy day), I booked a 10 AM FP+ selection for Peter Pan. While I was still at least a week away from my visit, I wanted to change it. No times were available from 9 AM to 7 PM. The day before, no times were available before 11 PM. (MK was open till 1 AM.)

People mention how great it is to be able to change FP+ selections. That only works when the parks are not overly crowded or when less popular attractions are selected. For popular attractions, we're just as locked into return times as before. This isn't a FP+ problem. This is a ride capacity problem.

The advantage of FP+ is that onsite guests can plan ahead for these FP+ return times, rather than finding out what they are after they arrive at the parks.

Is that an advantage? Sure. But it's not the end-all some think it is.

 

[Marc Brown]

We have been going to Disney World every year, since 2006. We always have a great time. Dining reservations are the only thing preplanned. It is very rare we stay at one park for the whole day. So old FP system was nice for Park hopping. I am concerned about how this year will be with the new limits. So if I understand it correctly, all fast passes for the day can only be at one park??? I don't want whole vacation preplanned.

 

[wdisney9000]

I don't want whole vacation preplanned.

Join the club. (FYI, by typing the above statement you are officially a doom and gloomer in the eyes of some)

 

[Marc Brown]

Join the club. (FYI, by typing the above statement you are officially a doom and gloomer in the eyes of some)

It is the most visited park in the world. I didn't see what the problem was with the old system. If it was doom and gloom, we wouldn't be returning this year. Thanks for the heads up.

 

[wdisney9000]

I didn't see what the problem was with the old system.

The only problem legacy fp had was in the eyes of executives who wanted fatter wallets.

Some would have you believe that Disney partially implemented fp+ because experienced guests knew how to "abuse" the system and they wanted to level the playing field. Lmao.

 

[Goofyernmost]

From you? Nah. Not really.

I'll send you a Goofyernmost fan club application if you like!

 

[JordanKing]

This all looks like a huge mess and I am really not looking forward to using the system in April. What is frustrating me the most is that you aren't able to use Fastpass+ in more than one park a day. I tend to park hop like it's my job, so this won't be pretty for me. Also, just looking at those lines makes me shudder.

 

[Disneyfamily4]

The only problem legacy fp had was in the eyes of executives who wanted fatter wallets.

Some would have you believe that Disney partially implemented fp+ because experienced guests knew how to "abuse" the system and they wanted to level the playing field. Lmao.

I think it's funny how people think disney spent 1.5 billion in order to help guests, rather than help their pocket books. Disney is going to try to turn a huge profit from this system and it will come at our expense.

 

[Disneyfamily4]

This all looks like a huge mess and I am really not looking forward to using the system in April. What is frustrating me the most is that you aren't able to use Fastpass+ in more than one park a day. I tend to park hop like it's my job, so this won't be pretty for me. Also, just looking at those lines makes me shudder.

I feel the same way. Because of our kids, we seem to always end up at the Magic Kingdom at night to finish the day. Without fast passes at our 2nd park, the only way to do rides now is to wait in 40-min lines.

 

[Cubfan300]

I sincerely believe that at some point before summer, park hopping will be added to FP+. I think that as part of the park hopper package, you will get no more than 2 per park, but I do think that it is coming. This is still all a beta test (albeit when everyone going into the system is involved, its hardly beta anymore), but adjustments such as allowing off site guests to use MM+ are likely all part of the test plan.

 

[Cubfan300]

Well done and welcome to board participation. I know it makes no statistical difference in the big brother data grab but I pay cash for everything at WDW just to make a statement to me. Plus I have never and will never use FP Minus as I enjoy a casual vacation and proudly use a phone for talking to people with voice only. I have visited enough in the past so I have no burning desire to ride any particular attraction. My visits are becoming shorter at WDW and more often on DCL where Iger and gang have not ruined the classic Disney service and experience..yet. So relax B. I., you still get my money. Then I enjoy added days at Uni. I stopped staying at substandard (for the price) Disney resorts years ago.

Thanks wog for the greeting!

 

[flynnibus]

Try explaining the concept to a newbie from start to finish, and tell me which concept they grasp quicker

Let's see...

When you get to the park, head to one of the kiosks.. from there you can pick the attractions you don't want to wait on line for, and it will suggest times for you. If you don't like those times, you can customize them. When the time comes your your reservation, head to the attraction. Oh, you can do this on your smartphone too.

Not so difficult a concept to understand. Certainly more straight forward than "get a FP", yes you can get another FP, but not until your assigned time or 2hrs later.. whichever comes first. Where do you get a FP? At the attraction? No you can't get FPs for other attractions right now, you must wait. Yes you must goto the attraction to get the FP, even tho you aren't planning on riding right now. No you can't say when you want to ride.. you accept what they give you. How many can you get? It depends on the times and how active you are, etc.

3 FP per day... get them at once place... get it on your phone if you want. Dead simple.

Legacy Fastpass was getting a ticket at a deli counter. Fastpass+ involves linking your tickets to your Fastpass+ reservations, selecting the preferred attractions, then selecting one of four groupings. There are multiple steps in the new process that are inevitable because it's a system capable of more. Moreover, while the old process was certainly more tedius, you're repeating the same basic process. That's a lot easier for a newbie to grasp.

There are more customizations, but the average user isn't burdened with them unless they want them. Linking of tickets is a one time task that will pull back over time as the stuff becomes more mainstream and you have things setup ahead of time.

The point I was making (apparently not well enough) was that the actual distribution/acquisition of the Fastpasses themselves isn't why the system is fundamentally flawed. The reason why it's flawed is because of the new rules for acquiring them (60 days out, 3 per day) and what's available (shows and rides that simply don't need it).

It's what you don't like - not what's flawed. There's a difference.

This was said for my comment, "The fundamental flaw in the system is that it can only work for all guests if those guests acquire Fastpasses for things that don't need it." The pool of attractions at every park but the Magic Kingdom was insufficient to satisfy the 3 Fastpasses per day for every guest

A premise that would have made the old FP system 'fundamentally flawed' as well. If you argue there isn't enough capacity for 3 FPs per guest... that hasn't changed.. but in fact 'improves' that metric by adding more FP attractions. So if you want to cut FP+ off at the knees over 'it cant work for all guests for the attractions they wanted' - you should have been ing on the predecessor too, because it couldn't do it either, and was even LESS equipped to do it.

So since you've declared this as "bunkus", please enlighten me. Tell me why Fastpass has been added to shows and attractions that rarely have waits over 10 minutes? If you convince me that this is for any reason other than, "We need the capacity to meet the desired numbers of Fastpass+ reservations per guest," I'll stop any and all Fastpass+ arguments on my end. That means no more whining about it on here, no more MiceChat articles, and no more complaining on podcasts. Please, convince me. I want to be wrong about this.

First, one should look at what I said was bunkus.. and try replying to that. But you were replying to my point about showing other angles your 'suggestions' failed to include. So no idea.

Second... here's a painfully obvious 'reason' to add FP to those attractions. You simply want more of your attractions in the online system. Not because you think people need to shorten their waits - but you want them in the tool period so your quiver looks more full and so you don't penalize attractions for being left out.

So you don't have to explain to dumb richard on the phone or at the kiosk "Yes sir, there are more than 5 rides in the park, but we only allow you to reserve those 5"

So you don't have to argue with dumb richard "Yes sir, there is a Mickey movie... but you don't need to cut the line because there isn't normally a line.."

Not every action is about the highest optimization of efficiency. There are aspects such as marketing, positioning, and simple influencing behavior. Yes, getting people to 'burn' a FP on attractions they might not otherwise need it is a waste for the advanced user, but not all users are advanced. Not every user knows when the best time to hit an attraction is.. nor should they need to. The FP system allows them to simply NOT CARE... freeing up the burden.

People moan about 'why do I want a FP for lunch' or whatever.. then turn around and complain about the long line.. or M&Gs.. and then turn around and post for 30 pages on what's the best time to see the Frozen characters.

For the super-user.. FP+ isn't needed for all things, they know of more efficient ways of doing it than FP+ offers at times. But that isn't for everyone... FP+ offers more than just shorter lines for these people. It's a guide, it simplifies the 'when/where' discussion, its a promotion tool for Disney, etc.

That's the thing, there is no comparison to what they're doing. Look at Fastpass for shows for example: Showtime is at 1:00 PM, Fastpass return time is 12:40-12:55, you can walk in the standby line for that show during that window and sit in the exact same spot for the show. More importantly, you can walk in at 12:56 and still get into the show. Without preferred seating, Fastpass for shows will cost a guest time, not save them time. Looking at attractions that have lower popularity, Fastpass+ is likely to save less than 5 minutes in many cases. Once again, selling something that you don't need.

Doesn't match my experience for Nemo, F!, etc. The same can be said for TLM or Muppets when things are busy. But hey, if you don't feel you need a FP for an attraction - don't use it. In your examples the FP user isn't hurting you any either, since there was spare capacity that it didn't matter which line you went into, so why is it a negative for anyone?

The kiosks may eliminate the confusion of a Fastpass machine being no where near the attraction, but it still involves a multi step process. It also doesn't tell you that while Fastpass is available for Mickey's PhilharMagic, it's not really needed

Because you are dealing with a BUSINESS - not your best friend trying to tell you how to optimize your trip. Why is this hard to grasp? Disney is promoting attractions (just like they did with Bonus FPs) to try to entice people to go there. It's in Disney's interest (and everyone's to a degree) to ensure all attractions are being utilized... Not just a handful. To only put the most popular attractions into the online system would in fact re-enforce the problem of unequal usage. It's akin to the Bonus FP, or putting an attraction on the backside of the map handout.. attempts to promote the attraction so it's capacity is used.

Comparatively, my "man crush @lentesta" has contributed to a system that allows you to select as many attractions as you want, hit the optimize button and it will re-order those attractions so that you're touring in the most efficient way possible

And yet, he still offers 'pre-made' touring plans for the type of visitor you are too... why? Because again some people need the 'show me the turn key way' and aren't looking for max optimization.

Sure, that's not for everyone, but it is still far superior than what Disney is trying to do and it can utilize Disney's ever changing system

Depending on what you are trying to accomplish. Disney's objectives and TP's are not the same... they aren't motivated by the same things, nor do they measure their success the same.

TAs you said, Fastpass+ is intended to accomplish more than getting an individual on a ride in a shorter amount of time. However, it is not been my experience that this is at all beneficial.

Again.. depends on whose chair you are sitting in.

I know it's hard for people to grasp at times... but not everything is done solely for the customer. Neither extreme is good for the end game of either party.

 

[Disneyfamily4]

I sincerely believe that at some point before summer, park hopping will be added to FP+. I think that as part of the park hopper package, you will get no more than 2 per park, but I do think that it is coming. This is still all a beta test (albeit when everyone going into the system is involved, its hardly beta anymore), but adjustments such as allowing off site guests to use MM+ are likely all part of the test plan.

I think selling fast passes will likely come at some point to. As I said in past posts, in business, you don't spend 1.5 billion on the hopes that sales from souviners, snacks and things like that make your money back. You spend the 1.5 billion knowing that your ace in the hole gets your money back and by limiting them now, fast passes will be a hot commodity when all is said and done.

 

[EvilQueen-T]

While we were there in November, I found most of the hold ups to be people who were trying to enter a FP line that didn't have a FP for that attraction. Once we were waiting for BTMRR and a family tried to enter who's FP had expired over an hour and half earlier. The CM explained to them they didn't have a valid FP and the woman (I'm assuming the mother) was like "oh come on, just let us through. It's not THAT late" The CM did end up letting them through. Another time was going to Tower, the reader said this family didn't have a FP for that ride that day. The people eventually had to move to the side to pull up their MDE app to "prove" they had it. Personally, I'm glad the CM didn't take their word for it and made them show it on their app. And I hope they crack down on letting people in with expired times. Cause once you let one person through, everyone will be saying "well, I saw a CM let a family through at Space Mountain" or that same family will try it on every ride they are late for.

Once inside, the FP line seemed to move as normal. No real changes there.

We had to pull ours up once as well to show we had it...what we didn't realize as this was the first ride that trip using the fp+ (we'd had 2 prior trips without issues) but it was the beginning of a 3 day weekend trip of my granddaughters magic band not working for any of our fp+...no problem getting in the parks, opening doors etc... but once we went to use it to go on a fp+ ride it would say she wasn't in the park. 6 or 7 trips to guest services (and they never were able to fix the problem) on top of having trouble at each fp+ ride entrance got old real quick. We're going back for a 5 day trip in late March so we'll see how things work then...kinda holding my breath a little with it being during a busier time of year with spring break.

 

[RSoxNo1]

Here is another fake picture from BTMR, I apologize for the lame 2 dimensional aspect as I did not have my 4th dimensional camera that uses precogs to determine future behavior and captures trajectory angles of guests and shows emotional status with thought pattern and back ground story. (the yellow arrow is where my wife is and she has her hand in the air, Red arrow is end of FP+ line) this was in late January

View attachment 46477

I will say that I waited 35-40 minutes for BTMR in the Fastpass line in early January. However, that was due to other issues with the attraction resulting in only two trains running. Even without issues though, the Fastpass entrance queue at BTMR and Kilimanjaro Safaris are definitely problems. Simply put, the higher capacity attractions now have a new bottleneck and it's the entrance to the Fastpass queue.

 

[jlsHouston]

To the "Stay longer on property" argument.

If I am scheduling my entire experience 60 days out, how will MM+ keep me onsite longer? My next trip is set for August. I usually set aside a pool/DTD day. This year the pool/DTD day is being replaced with a UNI day as a fact finding mission. Depending on the MM+ and UNI experiences, this trip will determine if and where my money goes in the future.

Personally ? I only used the FP+ and no legacy in November. I spent 4-6 hours in the parks 8 of 12 days on that trip. Of course I stay on property but FP+ and/or MM+ is not the reason I stay on property and I can't see it in its current form ever influencing where I stay. When we finally decide to do the parks at UNI we will stay onsite there. Then we will go stay at WDW for the park/pool/DTD experience. If I want to do beaches we will go to the ocean and stay beachfront somewhere. FP+ and MM+ has nothing motivational to entice me to stay on property or NOT do something else somewhere else.
I go to WDW for WDW and FP+ and MM+ is simply a waste of money and a brain drain of what should be the most innovative talented bunch of people in the entertainment/theme park business.