Lights of Winter not being displayed this year (2009)!?!

[nbodyhome]

I'm making a trip tomorrow since I only have 1 early morning class (Yay!) tomorrow. Also I'm planning on making a trip into guest relations. Does anyone know if I should just say something or drop off a letter as well?

I am going to ask for a comment card and then also send letters out.

 

[MythBuster]

Couldn't you say the same for the Osborne lights? Yet they received a massive upgrade.

Just look at what is advertised, Studios management need something to draw people for holidays. So the Osburne Lights is main focus for the Studios.

The main focus for Epcot is the Candlelight Processional, it used to be Holidays around the World, where the whole World Showcase and decorations were the focus.

 

[Eyorefan]

Couldn't you say the same for the Osborne lights? Yet they received a massive upgrade.

I think the difference with the Osborne lights is that managment recoxizes the display gives people more to do in the park and also draws in a lot of people who wouldn't normally go to DHS. If more people spend more time in a park they are also spending more money.

Honestly, I don't know why management doesn't get that this same principle applies to every holiday display in every park.

A lot people go to the World in December (often paying higher holiday prices) just to see the decorations and special programs. When you start removing huge chuncks of these little extra things, people start to wonder why they are bothering with the hassle of larger crowds and higher prices.

As it is, I for one will not be going to the parks during the holidays anytime soon. I can see Christmas trees and wreaths at my local mall.

 

[s8film40]

Buttons are a little cheaper at Zazzle so I posted them there also.

http://www.zazzle.com/bring_back_the_lights_of_winter_button-145550569453382085

 

[EpcoTim]

You have to understand Epcot's management view on things also, does LOW bring in any extra money? Is there any LOW food? or any LOW merchandise? So it is just window dressing to them, it is an expense that maybe was going to receive an upgrade, but when they found out the price, they just decided to get rid of it all together. It is not a moneymaker, just a crowd pleaser, but just like the tree lighting ceremony performed in the same area previously.

So what does bring it extra money during the holidays at Epcot? Candlelight Processional Dinner Packages, it makes the restaurants happy and Epcot management happy to make that extra money, and they more than half way sold out and the seating arrangement is geared toward dinner packages, conventions, VIP's, and guests. Standby seating is only going to be about 200 - 400 seats a show. So they will be long lines for people who want a seat without buying a dinner package.

Also, personalized Christmas ornaments, they can make some extra money on that also, so that is where their focus is, where they can cut costs and make more profit in other places.

Take Food and Wine for an instance, they made a lot of cuts, and didn't have have as many as offerings as they did in previous years and were preparing for lower numbers, but lo and behold they actually made a profit of an extra 10% over their projections. So now they think we can make more cuts and make bigger profits and hope nobody will notice.

Yes, but that "window dressing" is what gives people a greater sense that they are experiencing something they can't experience anywhere else. That "window dressing" is what gives people that special feeling that then inclines them to return December after December when otherwise they may have not.

That "window dressing" is a staple and tradition in many peoples holiday visits, so to just ditch it causes severe disappointment and disapproval from otherwise loyal fans. Does a company ever want to tick off their core fanbase? Of course not.

But Does Disney care about that? Nope. As long as current powers that be can keep costs down and profits high with a strong bottom line they will tick off whomever they please, except the investors to keep profits high because by the time the lack of interest in the parks is apparent and showing on the books, the next generation of exec's and management will already be in place and facing the reprecussions of their predecessors wrong doings.

 

[marni1971]

You have to understand Epcot's management view on things also, does LOW bring in any extra money? Is there any LOW food? or any LOW merchandise? So it is just window dressing to them, it is an expense that maybe was going to receive an upgrade, but when they found out the price, they just decided to get rid of it all together. It is not a moneymaker, just a crowd pleaser, but just like the tree lighting ceremony performed in the same area previously.

And that is just how Disney NEVER used to be. You got somethings for nothing but the price of admission. Sad sign of the times. I`d love to give middle management a right kick where it hurts about this. We were so looking forward to it. Yes, the POE tag will still be special, but the LOW seemed to be even more special. Magical. Disney. Pixie dust and all that. But what do I Know? I never saw them in person. And now I can`t. They have become another victim of the companys greed for shareholders and profit.

200 posts. Excellent.

201 very soon

 

[WDW1974]

Not necessarily a recent cut - I'd say it's more likely that one arm of the company has no clue what the other is doing.

Yes. And this is typical of Disney for at least the past 10-15 years as it has become so large in size, scale and employment.

This type of decision was made -- at the latest -- during spring and, quite possibly, well before that. Of course, they (like any company that is so concerned with image) aren't going to 'announce' it to the public. They truly hope that few folks notice and fewer complain.

And that's the situation whenever they do something that really affects the guest experience in a negative way.

Or they simply turn it around and issue a non-sensical statement like the 'Tweet' from this Thomas Smith.

I certainly agree that I wouldn't focus your disgust with him. Again, a decision like this would have come from the level of a Dan Cockerell and/or an Erin Wallace. It possibly could have also come from Francois Lerioux since he is responsible for entertainment, but I doubt it was his final call (especially after his disaster with the new Stitch MK show that didn't last a month and cost millions).

But Smith is the voice of 'Social Media' for Disney, so you better believe that his Twitter account is there for that purpose. Still, I'd go to the decision-makers ... and I'd do so by phone (switchboard, NOT DRC), email (the addys are out there or easy to figure out, this isn't Bob Iger) and/or snail mail. Walking up to Guest Relations at EPCOT and berating some poor CM, who likely agrees with you and has no decision-making power, ain't the route to travel here.

I'd also make sure to NOT stick to just the LoW issue. Indicate ALL the things that WDW has done to tick you off (all the holiday entertainment that is no longer presented, for instance, if you want to stick to one theme) and cause you to rethink where you'll be spending your hard-earned $$$s.

If you just rant and whine about one thing, they're more likely to not take you seriously and to send you a canned response (I am sure they've been working hard on one with Marketing and Press and Publicity as well as Social Media since this exploded).

Showing this the last proverbial straw will be more effective in communicating.

 

[xdan0920]

You have to understand Epcot's management view on things also, does LOW bring in any extra money? Is there any LOW food? or any LOW merchandise? So it is just window dressing to them, it is an expense that maybe was going to receive an upgrade, but when they found out the price, they just decided to get rid of it all together. It is not a moneymaker, just a crowd pleaser, but just like the tree lighting ceremony performed in the same area previously.

So what does bring it extra money during the holidays at Epcot? Candlelight Processional Dinner Packages, it makes the restaurants happy and Epcot management happy to make that extra money, and they more than half way sold out and the seating arrangement is geared toward dinner packages, conventions, VIP's, and guests. Standby seating is only going to be about 200 - 400 seats a show. So they will be long lines for people who want a seat without buying a dinner package.

Also, personalized Christmas ornaments, they can make some extra money on that also, so that is where their focus is, where they can cut costs and make more profit in other places.

Take Food and Wine for an instance, they made a lot of cuts, and didn't have have as many as offerings as they did in previous years and were preparing for lower numbers, but lo and behold they actually made a profit of an extra 10% over their projections. So now they think we can make more cuts and make bigger profits and hope nobody will notice.

I can't tell if you are playing devils advocate, or if you really believe this. Either way your argument is very flawed. Just because something doesn't make money directly does not mean it should be cut. Do parades make money? Does Carousel of Progress make money? What about the big beautiful Carousel in FL?

Would you be OK with them removing all these things? What about Maelstrom? Lots of things in Disney world are not direct money makers, should they just eliminate everything? Window dressing is hugely important in WDW. People choose WDW because of things like LoW, if they just wanted rides they would go to any of the other 100s of theme parks.

 

[yankspy]

"Yes…the Lights of Winter canopy has been enjoyed for years. But the technology to operate the lights is obsolete, prompting us to retire the lights and find a new experience".

Okay, so what is the new experience?

 

[jt04]

"Yes…the Lights of Winter canopy has been enjoyed for years. But the technology to operate the lights is obsolete, prompting us to retire the lights and find a new experience".

Okay, so what is the new experience?

Hopefully an announcement that a new and much higher tech version is in the works for next year.....:xmas:

 

[MousDad]

I`d love to give middle management a right kick where it hurts about this.

That's the kind of ultimate tribute I'm talking 'bout! :sohappy:

Make sure the cameras are rolling! :lol:

 

[nbodyhome]

Okay, so what is the new experience?

Darkness.

 

[xdan0920]

Okay, so what is the new experience?

Less traffic on the bridge?

 

[Thurp]

Okay, so what is the new experience?

The choir, most likely.

 

[DisneyLeo18]

All I know is my company has set up an internet service for our clients recently and every time we have a complaint / issue there is a meeting to discuss how to fix or improve on it to please the client and keep them coming back. Now my company has 1,000's of major company clients (Disney being one of them) and even the smallest client complaining makes us discuss it.

Now I'm not saying Disney doesn't discuss issues like this, but I'm worried they might not care. Which is scary, especially for the future.

I know we are a small percentage, but I know the average guest who has seen the lights before won't be happy.

I know there is no profit for this, but that's not what it should be about. It's going that extra mile and in the long run there is profit! Now guests (like myself) might not have an issue visiting Universal instead of taking a trip to a park for the 2nd time to see that extra magic that once was.

 

[yankspy]

I can't tell if you are playing devils advocate, or if you really believe this. Either way your argument is very flawed. Just because something doesn't make money directly does not mean it should be cut. Do parades make money? Does Carousel of Progress make money? What about the big beautiful Carousel in FL?

Would you be OK with them removing all these things? What about Maelstrom? Lots of things in Disney world are not direct money makers, should they just eliminate everything? Window dressing is hugely important in WDW. People choose WDW because of things like LoW, if they just wanted rides they would go to any of the other 100s of theme parks.

Window dressing is what WDW is all about IMO. Without it a ride like Everest would simply be a mountain of bare steel like you would see at a Six Flags.

 

[TURKEY]

You have to understand Epcot's management view on things also, does LOW bring in any extra money? Is there any LOW food? or any LOW merchandise? So it is just window dressing to them, it is an expense that maybe was going to receive an upgrade, but when they found out the price, they just decided to get rid of it all together. It is not a moneymaker, just a crowd pleaser, but just like the tree lighting ceremony performed in the same area previously.

Fine, if that's the case - say it.

Just don't say the technology is obsolete, especially only 2 weeks prior to when they were to be installed and running. If it was the tech, say what technology became obsolete in 10 months - if it's obsolete no point in saying what it was.

 

[TURKEY]

Hopefully an announcement that a new and much higher tech version is in the works for next year.....:xmas:

Then come out and say so. It be an easier pill to swallow if I knew that something new and grand was coming.

Much like a Space Mountain rehab that lasted through the holidays would have been if they announced it early on with some of what would be coming.

 

[EpcoTim]

Of course they don't care. When you can use a less costly eye catching promotion such as free food or free lodging instead of making a more costly long term investment in a park and the overall image of the brand, the less costly option is going to win out. And a lot of guests are going "MMMM, free hamburgers" but my guess would be that the majority of guests will notice the lack of show and diminishing quality.

Epcot looks downright depressing right now.

If they were smart they would quick jump up and call this thing "Disney pictures presents Epcot's Bah-humbug Holiday Extravaganza" - "Come out and see all your xmas favorites like No Xmas lights!! Wreaths and ornaments and other pieces of holiday cheer-- F-THEM. Come join us and Jim Carrey as Scrooge as we make the holidays less and less special and void of any feeling while we cornhole you and your family for every last holiday penny you have---Bah-Humbug!!! (Scrooge not guaranteed to appear at posted times, guests wearing or spreading holiday cheer is not endorsed by the Walt Disney Company and will be subject to pass revocation)"

 

[Fe Maiden]

You have to understand Epcot's management view on things also, does LOW bring in any extra money? Is there any LOW food? or any LOW merchandise? So it is just window dressing to them, it is an expense that maybe was going to receive an upgrade, but when they found out the price, they just decided to get rid of it all together. It is not a moneymaker, just a crowd pleaser, but just like the tree lighting ceremony performed in the same area previously.

This makes so much sense. When I'm not happy with a business I typically spend 2-3 times more than when I'm completely satisfied.