Late FP Returns Tightening Up?

[slappy magoo]

It is just my guess, and not based on anything other than me guessing, that most people show up on time though, so people showing up with expired fastpasses can't affect standby wait times by more than maybe 5 minutes max.

It's not an unreasonable guess to make. I would've guessed that as well at one point, but as you said later in your last post, I'd also guess that the word has been slowly getting out to not worry about the end of you FP window, more and more people have been found taking advantage of it, it IS affecting the flow of the line, so now CMs are put in a position where they have to kinda clamp down on the window.

I'd also further guess that, unless the policy is enforced on all FP rides, the problem will get worse before it gets better. Let's face it, some FP attractions are more popular than others. Is Maelstrom still a FP ride? That's one I never got, I've never seen mroe than a 10-minute wait for it, so I can easily imagine a CM blithely ignoring the end of the window on that attraction, only to have guests assume all Fastpasses are treated the same way and get bitterly disappointed on something like Soarin' or Space Mountain.

 

[YankeeMouse]

I too thought of coming later than the time window as not cheating the system, but knowing a little known fact. But reading all the reasons why this screws up the fastpass system, I'll make an attempt now to come during the window time! I was just operating in a very happy vacuum, I guess.

 

[hcswingfield]

As I've read, the fastpass counts as your "virtual position" in the line.

So picture your little fastpass ticket walking through the Jungle Cruise queue for you while you go eat a Dole Whip. The time the little walking ticket reaches its destination is your "return window". You finish eating the Dole Whip and get on the ride as soon as he gets to the front.

Now imagine if you aren't quite done with your Dole Whip. So there's your little ticket friend standing at the front of the line ready to board. But you yell over to him, "hey little fastpass dude, we're not done eating yet. Just wait right there for a while." So fastpass dude steps aside and waves massive crowds of people ahead of him while you finish your snack. When you're done, you join him at the front of the queue and ride the ride.

Is there any evil in this? No, you're simply allowing a ton of people to proceed past you in line. If you show up 5 hours after your return time, you just kindly allowed 5 hours worth of people to go ahead of you.

But obviously, you cannot use the ticket BEFORE the return window, because that would be considered line cutting. :animwink:

Using a fastpass on a different day though, is a different story. Each day the line starts fresh. So if you allow thousands of people to jump ahead of you in line and then the park closes without you riding the ride, the line starts over the next day and you should be out of luck. :shrug:

I think this is the clearest, most entertaining explanation of the process I've seen yet. Thanks, Laura! (and enjoy your trip!)

 

[jaydub]

It's not an unreasonable guess to make. I would've guessed that as well at one point, but as you said later in your last post, I'd also guess that the word has been slowly getting out to not worry about the end of you FP window, more and more people have been found taking advantage of it, it IS affecting the flow of the line, so now CMs are put in a position where they have to kinda clamp down on the window.

I readily use fastpasses beyond the return time but never at a later date.

Let's be honest about this. While the number of fastpasses is given out during the day can vary, there is certainly a maximum on the number that can be given out. Disney has enough historical data to know within reason how many passes will probably be delivered during the day and how many of those will actually be used. To argue that people with late fastpasses cause an increase in wait in the Stand by line is one-sided because no one mentions the fact that the wait in the Stand-by line would decrease because of those people who do not show up with fastpasses during their return window (maybe to show up later). My guess is that the number of no-shows during a return window probably equals the number of people showing up with late passes. (Obviously this is not true for the first and last hour). To your point about what the CM will do at closing time is moot. Closing time is closing time whether you have a fastpass or not. The CM is going to close the line at the appropriate time.

I for one do not feel guilty, immoral, ashamed, evil, etc. for using a fastpass after the return window. I do not try to trick, hide, sneak or decieve the CM when I return late. If he says that the window has been missed, so be it.

 

[dxwwf3]

I readily use fastpasses beyond the return time but never at a later date.

Let's be honest about this. While the number of fastpasses is given out during the day can vary, there is certainly a maximum on the number that can be given out. Disney has enough historical data to know within reason how many passes will probably be delivered during the day and how many of those will actually be used. To argue that people with late fastpasses cause an increase in wait in the Stand by line is one-sided because no one mentions the fact that the wait in the Stand-by line would decrease because of those people who do not show up with fastpasses during their return window (maybe to show up later). My guess is that the number of no-shows during a return window probably equals the number of people showing up with late passes. (Obviously this is not true for the first and last hour). To your point about what the CM will do at closing time is moot. Closing time is closing time whether you have a fastpass or not. The CM is going to close the line at the appropriate time.

I for one do not feel guilty, immoral, ashamed, evil, etc. for using a fastpass after the return window. I do not try to trick, hide, sneak or decieve the CM when I return late. If he says that the window has been missed, so be it.

Excellent post. I feel the same way about the last paragraph. It is very rare that I do miss the one hour window, but there has never been any problems when the rare occurrence does happen.

 

[ballewclan]

Obviously fast passes have a time for a reason, whether you choose to follow that time is your choice but don't get mad when they don't let you in after your time has expired.

The reason the program is in place is to REGULATE. Lets say all the people that get the 6:10 to 7:10 fastpasses for Rockin Roller Coaster show up late. Lets say they get there at 8:10. So now we've got two groups of fast pass people all in line for fastpass. The CMs tend to let in almost all of the fastpass-ers before they get to the regular line. So if a HUGE number of people show up for fastpasses at a certain time, those people in the regular line might be standing there for a while.

If everyone follows the fast pass times though, the stand by line stays at a constant pace of movement. There arent any long periods of time where your just standing there being annoyed at the fact that your in a line.

I don't get how its such a burden to show up at a ride in an hour time slot. It can't take you more than 20 minutes to get from one corner of the park to the other. Plus when you get your fastpasses, the time that your going to be given is displayed. If you know you have dinner reservations at 6 and your fast pass would start at 6:10, then don't get that fastpass!

 

[slappy magoo]

I readily use fastpasses beyond the return time but never at a later date.

Let's be honest about this. While the number of fastpasses is given out during the day can vary, there is certainly a maximum on the number that can be given out. Disney has enough historical data to know within reason how many passes will probably be delivered during the day and how many of those will actually be used. To argue that people with late fastpasses cause an increase in wait in the Stand by line is one-sided because no one mentions the fact that the wait in the Stand-by line would decrease because of those people who do not show up with fastpasses during their return window (maybe to show up later). My guess is that the number of no-shows during a return window probably equals the number of people showing up with late passes. (Obviously this is not true for the first and last hour). To your point about what the CM will do at closing time is moot. Closing time is closing time whether you have a fastpass or not. The CM is going to close the line at the appropriate time.

I for one do not feel guilty, immoral, ashamed, evil, etc. for using a fastpass after the return window. I do not try to trick, hide, sneak or decieve the CM when I return late. If he says that the window has been missed, so be it.

Well, I appreciate the zen-ness of the last sentence, but again, Fastpass is also about crowd control and crowd disbursement, not just a perk for the guests. When FP is used the way it's designed to be used, it helps to more evenly-distrubute crowds amongst the busiest attractions throughout the entire day. I'm sure it's not a perfect system but it's designed to lessen the load, allow the guests to do more... and help prevent the CMs from being overly over-whelmed during peak times and near-closing. If over the course of the day, more and more people miss their window, sure, it benefits people waiting on the standby line at the time. If they all show up at the same time, and that's peak time, when lines are long anyway and tempers are running high, it hinders people waiting on the standby line, who are probably, mostly, different people than the ones who were benfitting from your earlier tardiness.

I certainly hope, if you're refused entry with an expired Fastpass, you're as cool about it as you claim you will be today.

 

[nibblesandbits]

I understand both sides of this issue...they both really do make sense...but I still feel that maybe there should be a window for if your pass expires in which you can still use the FP...say a half an hour, or an hour after it expires...that way, if something unforseen happens, your still ok...and it doesn't allow for people to come back way later in the evening...or the next day, week, year...etc and mess up the system completely.

 

[lilclerk]

I understand both sides of this issue...they both really do make sense...but I still feel that maybe there should be a window for if your pass expires in which you can still use the FP...say a half an hour, or an hour after it expires...that way, if something unforseen happens, your still ok...and it doesn't allow for people to come back way later in the evening...or the next day, week, year...etc and mess up the system completely.

That's a good idea. Make it slightly lenient, but not as bad as it is right now.

 

[ToTBellHop]

there should not be two sides. The Fastpass CLEARLY lists a timeframe to enter the attraction during. Those of us who have been spoiled by Disney not enforcing that rule really have no place to complain. Disney was never ambiguous about this. Now they will enforce the rule that has been there all along. It's like when you whiz by a cop going 10 mph over the speed limit and miraculously he doesn't pull you over. If the government really wanted to enforce the speed limit, they could install cameras on the highways as others have done, and send you a ticket every time you go 1 mph over the speed limit. People would complain, just like they are here, with no reason to do so.

 

[SANDKRUSER]

Now I understand why the fast pass lines get backed up - it's all those people with expired fast pass times and dates that are in line!!! I wasn't even aware you COULD use a fast pass when your window was passed - it didn't occur to me - I've thrown away passes that are just a few minutes over because I figured that's what the system was for. It irritates me that people misuse this. If you're late, you're late - get in line like everyone else. I don't care if you've had a problem - we've had them and were late, tossed our fast passes and got in line - it's the right thing to do. I'm surprised at the number of Disney lovers here that don't follow the rule (and are proud of it).:shrug:

 

[Epcotian]

Well, I can see I started a nice little argument. As I said initially, my plan includes the use of a limited number of late FP's. My intention was and is to use them the same day. From what I gather, the potential problem is if a huge number of people show up with late FP's wanting to use them within a small amount of time. I can't comment about the last hour before closing because we don't stay in the parks that late, but I don't believe that problem occurs in reality during other hours of the park day. If it did, the touring plan book guru's would never have incorporated the idea into their plans to begin with (the idea for them is to avoid lines at all costs).

I also hear the argument that the "secret" may be getting out and that it may be growing as a problem. I don't buy that simply due to the fact that the people who buy AND READ guide books or check out internet message boards for tips are an overwhelming minority of WDW guests. The UG itself states this fact in reference to their suggestions for best times to ride attractions.

What about the argument that the parks are tightening up on the practice? I believe from what I've read here and elsewhere that CM's are, or at least up until very recently have been, trained to accept any FP's after the beginning of the return window. The wording on the back of the FP's reinforces this belief by specifically prohibiting early and non-same day usage. No mention of late same day usage. Why not? It would have been simpler to just state only returns within the window listed are allowed. Sounds like a policy decision to me.

I asked the question because ONE other site said they noticed that happening. There are many explanations for why they encountered what they did, and I for one don't believe it's an established fact yet that any tightening is occurring. One of the reasons for my initial post was to see what CM's are currently being told since I know there are some on these boards. None have indicated a change in policy, and of the posts I'm reading here and elsewhere only sporadic instances of people being denied late entry are happening, usually at Soarin, same as always.

So, I guess I have my answer. Except for the instance of last hour of the day, I haven't heard any convincing arguments that late entry is causing a problem. If I return late and am denied entry, that's fine. I know that's a possibility going in and it's a risk I'm willing to take. If I return late and see a packed FP return queue, I'll go elsewhere (again, the idea is to avoid lines, not stand in one).

Thanks for the opinions.

 

[lentesta]

We don't have to debate it, of course. I'll just send the team in to the parks and see how late one can be with FASTPASSes. I'll do it over the next few days and report back.

Incidentally, the times at which we were denied were midday.

Len

 

[cubes]

Read that back of the fastpasses

I think a lot of information can be gained from looking at the rules on the back of the FPs.

*Please enter the attraction between the times noted.
*Cannot accept early arrivals.
*Valid only on date printed.

Applying these rules, I would argue that the first statement is only a request for two reasons (the use of the word "please," and the fact that the second rule goes on to clearly prohibit early use). This would imply that late use is okay as long as it is on the same day.

Agree?

 

[Blizz]

As a former cast member I will pass along what Disney has to say about it:

During training (and when you train for each attraction you get retrained on FP) cast members are told to accept them anytime after the first time printed on the ticket, as long as the FP is for that date. The reason Disney has this policy is to not freak guests out by having to choose their ride time or their dining reservation, etc....

Maybe this is something new (although I have only been gone from Disney for about a month or so), but the training leaves room for the cast member to pass judgment. Some managers may be instructing their cast to do differently, but the official policy as I remember it was: the guest is always right until they are wrong and FP is good on the date issued anytime after the first ride time printed on the ticket.

 

[lentesta]

Let's hope it's just a handful of overzealous CMs we happened to run in to. (Although the fact that it happens regularly at Soarin' indicates some discussion somewhere is happening on the subject.) We'll test over the next week and report back.

 

[dxwwf3]

Let's hope it's just a handful of overzealous CMs we happened to run in to. (Although the fact that it happens regularly at Soarin' indicates some discussion somewhere is happening on the subject.) We'll test over the next week and report back.

I hope you're right. Keep us informed Len.

 

[PigletIsMyCat]

I still think that if Disney prints the FPs with a return window of one hour on them, there must be a reason. I still can't believe the number of people on this board who think nothing of taking a FP that is days, months, or even years old up to a ride and bypassing not only the standby line, but the amount of FP holders who have followed the rules and come back during their return window, on the right ride, on the correct date.

Every time I have ever used FastPass (and I have quite a bit) we were never - NEVER - allowed to get into the FP line before our return time - even by two minutes. I have witnessed countless people approach the CM accepting FPs within ten minutes of their posted return time, and be turned away and told they must wait until their return time. I have never witnessed people using their FPs early. I personally am one of the people who no longer likes the FastPass system, since all it seems to do is drive up wait times. Now, I feel like I have an obvious answer to why the wait times for both standby and FP have been driven up: people using expired FPs. I hope WDW is starting to enforce the return windows, as I have thrown out or given away unusable FPs numerous times because I missed the window by ten or fifteen minutes. And I was doing it because it's the right thing to do.

 

[Wilt Dasney]

Every time I have ever used FastPass (and I have quite a bit) we were never - NEVER - allowed to get into the FP line before our return time - even by two minutes. I have witnessed countless people approach the CM accepting FPs within ten minutes of their posted return time, and be turned away and told they must wait until their return time. I have never witnessed people using their FPs early. I personally am one of the people who no longer likes the FastPass system, since all it seems to do is drive up wait times. Now, I feel like I have an obvious answer to why the wait times for both standby and FP have been driven up: people using expired FPs. I hope WDW is starting to enforce the return windows

I'm going to admit that I don't quite get the logic that something is wrong with using a Fastpass after the window if you show the whole thing to the CM at the gate and he ushers you through. You're not "getting away" with anything. You're playing by the rules as WDW enforces them. Not allowing early entry has always been the policy...not so on the other end. So I don't really see the correlation.

I have thrown out or given away unusable FPs numerous times because I missed the window by ten or fifteen minutes. And I was doing it because it's the right thing to do.

I'll bite. If you consider the Fastpass unusable because the window is expired, how is giving it to someone else the right thing to do? You're either giving them what you consider a worthless scrap of paper or encouraging them to ride after the window, which is what's wrong with the whole system to begin with, right? Perhaps I misunderstood that part of your post.

 

[PigletIsMyCat]

I'll bite. If you consider the Fastpass unusable because the window is expired, how is giving it to someone else the right thing to do? You're either giving them what you consider a worthless scrap of paper or encouraging them to ride after the window, which is what's wrong with the whole system to begin with, right? Perhaps I misunderstood that part of your post.

Unusable FPs, not necessarily expired. I have thrown out FPs past their window and given away FPs that I obtained before I realized I couldn't use them. Like, I got FP's with a return time of 5pm-6pm, and at 4pm we decided we were leaving. I've passed those off.