Late FP Returns Tightening Up?

[dxwwf3]

Pardon? CM's who have been trained the correct way know that we are supposed to provide guest service that goes beyond that of any other park. I informed many guests of the complete FP policy because I was allowd to do so. I would rather a guest relax and take their time enjoying their meal or other event and retunring to the ride when they are able to enjoy the ride without having to worry about what they are missing. If you feel that this is wrong then I am sorry, but that is the company policy which I know in and out. Many members of this board have met me duing my time at Disney and can attest to the fact that guest service was my main concern during my time with the company. Some cast memebers and managers do not agree with the policy for some screwed up reason and they take it upon themselves to create their own policy that in the end has a negative effect on Disney's guest service guidelines. Soarin' is the only exception because they have had a lot of problems with their queue management, however that is no exception for the way I have seen some of their cast handle the FP time situation.

Very well said :sohappy:

Glad to have you as a CM

 

[mousermerf]

They could be changing the policy though - and no one here can vouch for that one way or another.

Both of you are ing in the wind on this one.

 

[ToTBellHop]

They could be changing the policy though - and no one here can vouch for that one way or another.

Both of you are ing in the wind on this one.

exactly. While allowing guests to use their FPs late may make them happier, that doesn't mean they can't change the policy. I'm sure many guests would be happy if Disney didn't enforce the "no line cutting" policy, but Disney does (for the most part) anyway. They have to do what would make the most guests happy. Some of us might like to be available in the Soarin' queue, but they have to do what will appease the masses.

 

[PigletIsMyCat]

Some of us might like to be available in the Soarin' queue, but they have to do what will appease the masses.

:ROFLOL: :ROFLOL: :ROFLOL:
Where do I sign up for that?

 

[haveyoumetmark]

I say to enforce the window. From personal experience... I was at MK last year with a first timer, and we decided to get on SM a half hour before Wishes. Surprisingly, it had a 15 minute wait, so we rushed on. We almost neared the merging point for FP's and SB. The wait had tripled, the CMs were sweating because people were complaining left and right (it nearly got violent), and the first timer I was with never had a chance to see Wishes, but she did witness an audacious display of screaming people in the SB line in front of us. All of this because the SELFISH masses piled up with their late FPs. Maybe she'll get to see Wishes in five years or so, when she returns from Poland.

EDIT: I may be play victim here.. Hmm. Well, at least she saw Illuminations, it's a remarkable show and far better than Wishes IMO. She didn't really realize what she missed after we got off SM and Wishes was over. I just think it's more fair if they enforce the times, that way everyone has a fair chance and the SB line and CMs don't get screwed over.

 

[Piebald]

exactly. While allowing guests to use their FPs late may make them happier, that doesn't mean they can't change the policy. I'm sure many guests would be happy if Disney didn't enforce the "no line cutting" policy, but Disney does (for the most part) anyway. They have to do what would make the most guests happy. Some of us might like to be available in the Soarin' queue, but they have to do what will appease the masses.

Midget ?

ON TOPIC : I wish more and more CM were more adamant about enforcing rules but a lot of CMs are scared to do so because they would rather pretend like it didn't happen to avoid confrontation.

 

[carlosjv]

on my last trip to wdw that it was on the new year week (extreme crowded),i ask a cm that if it was ok to use fp after hours and he told that no problem and just to take caution on soaring ,and in fact we had a problem there because we arrive to the ride at the last minute before closing and still was like 2 hr wait, so the cm that was on fp line told us to go to the stand by line , (our fp expire like 2 before) , but then a another cm arrive and told us that we could get in on the fp line . i think that it all depend on cm´s some are flexible some no , but its wdw so be happy

 

[csaguy]

I like the idea of a cutoff time. The return time could be lengthened by an hour.
Or, they could just print with disappearing ink, after 3 hrs, the print is gone.
I must admit we used FP's that were a day old but the time was right, the CM didn't look at the dates.

 

[Pooh88]

Just because you can get away with something doesn't make it "ok". In your mind you may not be causing a delay but if everybody did it it would screw up the system....

 

[Wilt Dasney]

Just because you can get away with something doesn't make it "ok". In your mind you may not be causing a delay but if everybody did it it would screw up the system....

How is following Disney policy "getting away" with anything? That's like saying people are "getting away" with stealing food when they use a buy 1, get 1 free coupon. :shrug:

 

[ToTBellHop]

Just because you can get away with something doesn't make it "ok". In your mind you may not be causing a delay but if everybody did it it would screw up the system....

exactly! That is what is so conceited about these posts. Imagine if everyone who got a Fastpass throughout the day had "something come up (give me a break...you are on vacation)"--you would have probably 15,000 people showing up for some rides around park closing. Apparently those individuals who are proud to be among that 15000 would say "to hell with everyone in Stand-By." How snobbish to think the rest of the world needs to accommodate your apparently busier-than-anyone-else vacation schedule.

How is following Disney policy "getting away" with anything? That's like saying people are "getting away" with stealing food when they use a buy 1, get 1 free coupon. :shrug:

It is not Disney's policy that "once you get a Fastpass, you can ride whenever the hell you please." It is Disney's policy that the guest is always right and the guest should be made happy wherever possible. The ability to use a FP later is meant to accommodate extenuating circumstances, such as a dinner going later than planned (really, you should be able to plan for this, but I can let that go) or grandma got sick on Mission: SPACE and everyone needed to return to the hotel for a break. Unfortunately, many guests take advantage of this loophole and many CMs even advertise this loophole, which is not at all appropriate. Because of these behaviors, therefore, it may become the case that no one will have the benefit of being able to enter a FP queue late due to an unforeseen delay.

 

[Maryssa*]

I always just assumed the time window was a guideline, not an order. Does it state on the paper that you MUST return before the window is over?


Though wow I've never considered using one from another day, i had no idea people did this. I thought the CMs would have checked dates. i;d be way too scared to try that.

 

[Epcotian]

The ability to use a FP later is meant to accommodate extenuating circumstances, such as a dinner going later than planned (really, you should be able to plan for this, but I can let that go) or grandma got sick on Mission: SPACE and everyone needed to return to the hotel for a break.

You're just assuming this to be the case. It could just as easily be that the FP language on back (and CM's are trained the way they are) because Disney knows it makes no difference in wait time whether the limited number of FP's issued for each ride is used 1 minute after the return window opens or 6 hours later. I don't believe 15,000 people mob any park's FP queue's in the last hour of the day or the UG wouldn't advise most headliners to be ridden in the first hour of the morning OR THE LAST HOUR BEFORE PARK CLOSING. I think the problems being argued about on this board exist only in the imagination of the posters. I'm sure isolated incidents can be cited, but not enough to generalize about.

 

[Vernonpush]

Gee, when I've retuned a few hours late for a FastPass, the CMs at the start of the FP queue usually just laugh at me, tell me to go ahead, NO one is in the FP queue, the CM taking FP tickets is usually glad that there's someone in the FP queue, and sends me on my merry way.
Of course, I go at off times, but still. It makes me wonder.

 

[ToTBellHop]

You're just assuming this to be the case. It could just as easily be that the FP language on back (and CM's are trained the way they are) because Disney knows it makes no difference in wait time whether the limited number of FP's issued for each ride is used 1 minute after the return window opens or 6 hours later. I don't believe 15,000 people mob any park's FP queue's in the last hour of the day or the UG wouldn't advise most headliners to be ridden in the first hour of the morning OR THE LAST HOUR BEFORE PARK CLOSING. I think the problems being argued about on this board exist only in the imagination of the posters. I'm sure isolated incidents can be cited, but not enough to generalize about.

No, it's not an assumption. It is actually the case that I have the ability to read .

Where was Disney not clear? And if you had actually read my post, you would see "imagine if everyone who got a Fastpass throughout the day had "something come up (give me a break...you are on vacation)"--you would have probably 15,000 people showing up for some rides around park closing." Where did I say that actually happens? Actually, I started out using the word "imagine," didn't I? To say whether a guest enters during the listed time or 6 hours later has no effect is very naive. It has already been stated in this thread that on any given busy day, you can very easily see guests returning after the listed time, and as the day goes on, very simple math would tell us that more and more people would do this, so you can have easily 100 guests per hour doing this as the day goes on. If we are talking an attraction that only allows say 1500 people per hour to ride, and it is running at a 70:30 Fastpass:Stand-By ratio, those extra 100 guests will take the place of Stand-By guests. Using the ratio I have given, 450 Stand-By guests would normally enter the attraction per hour, but since we must now accommodate our extra 100 inconsiderate latecomers, we can now only allow 350 Stand-By guests to ride per hour, making the Stand-By wait time roughly 30% longer than would have been expected. As for the whole "last hour before closing" comment, that is becoming less and less the case. Soarin' and Test Track have incredibly long lines right up to park closing, as does Rock 'n' Roller Coaster, Splash in the summer, and Space Mountain year-round. The reason the others drop off during the last hour has nothing to do with Fastpass and everything to do with a few little shows Disney likes to put on nightly--you know, SpectroMagic, Wishes, IllumiNations, and Fantasmic!

Gee, when I've retuned a few hours late for a FastPass, the CMs at the start of the FP queue usually just laugh at me, tell me to go ahead, NO one is in the FP queue, the CM taking FP tickets is usually glad that there's someone in the FP queue, and sends me on my merry way.
Of course, I go at off times, but still. It makes me wonder.

I'm glad the CMs are happy to see you, but you can rest assured that if you did this in the heat of summer and announced to everyone in Stand-By "Hey look! My FP expired several hours ago, but I'm going to ride anyway!" they would send you on your merry way into a dumpster.

 

[Wilt Dasney]

It is not Disney's policy that "once you get a Fastpass, you can ride whenever the hell you please."

While not expressed in that manner, I think it's fair to say that what you just typed has indeed been the Fastpass policy up until now.

I have never heard the caveat that late entry is to accommodate extenuating circumstances expressed outside of these forums. I was never told during my training to let people in late because of circumstances beyond their control. I was just told to let them in.

Where I think you may have a point is the idea that too many people are talking about this openly. When I was trained, I got the impression that letting people in late was OK, but we don't really advertise the fact.

So if anyone is at fault here, it's too many CMs or online commandos spreading the word about this. Complain to them for opening the door too wide or pointing to the door, or complain to Disney for opening the door to begin with, but don't complain to people who are just walking through the door when they know it's open. They've got nothing to apologize for.

 

[Vernonpush]

While not expressed in that manner, I think it's fair to say that what you just typed has indeed been the Fastpass policy up until now.

I have never heard the caveat that late entry is to accommodate extenuating circumstances expressed outside of these forums. I was never told during my training to let people in late because of circumstances beyond their control. I was just told to let them in.

Where I think you may have a point is the idea that too many people are talking about this openly. When I was trained, I got the impression that letting people in late was OK, but we don't really advertise the fact.

So if anyone is at fault here, it's too many CMs or online commandos spreading the word about this. Complain to them for opening the door too wide or pointing to the door, or complain to Disney for opening the door to begin with, but don't complain to people who are just walking through the door when they know it's open. They've got nothing to apologize for.

Well said.:sohappy:

 

[Wilt Dasney]

Just a couple more thoughts here, because I'm really not trying to win a jousting match with anybody, but some of these points just don't add up to me:

If Disney's late return acceptance policy was designed exclusively for circumstances beyond your control (dinner ressies, sick family member, what have you), wouldn't a 2 or 3 hour window be sufficient to catch most if not all of those? Why let people come in ANYTIME before closing if this is supposed to be only for the most dire circumstances? Presumably any problem I run into that keeps me from riding Splash Mountain at 2 can be solved well before closing time, and limiting the window in that way would prevent these alleged closing time Fastpass rushes we're hearing about. :shrug:

 

[ToTBellHop]

While not expressed in that manner, I think it's fair to say that what you just typed has indeed been the Fastpass policy up until now.

I have never heard the caveat that late entry is to accommodate extenuating circumstances expressed outside of these forums. I was never told during my training to let people in late because of circumstances beyond their control. I was just told to let them in.

Of course you just let them pass! What do you expect the policy to be? Demand a doctor's note to allow guests to pass? The policy is always not to give the guest a hard time, but the purpose of this FP policy is to allow guests to enter if they were delayed. If they wanted guests to just enter whenever they please after a given point, they would save themselves money on ink and make the FP smaller to save money on paper and just write "enter any time after 3 pm."

Where I think you may have a point is the idea that too many people are talking about this openly. When I was trained, I got the impression that letting people in late was OK, but we don't really advertise the fact.

So if anyone is at fault here, it's too many CMs or online commandos spreading the word about this. Complain to them for opening the door too wide or pointing to the door, or complain to Disney for opening the door to begin with, but don't complain to people who are just walking through the door when they know it's open. They've got nothing to apologize for.

Yes, because, of course, people are never actually responsible for their actions--it is those in charge who must keep people from doing things out of control, right? I love America. Do whatever you can to git 'er done until someone says "no".

Just a couple more thoughts here, because I'm really not trying to win a jousting match with anybody, but some of these points just don't add up to me:

If Disney's late return acceptance policy was designed exclusively for circumstances beyond your control (dinner ressies, sick family member, what have you), wouldn't a 2 or 3 hour window be sufficient to catch most if not all of those? Why let people come in ANYTIME before closing if this is supposed to be only for the most dire circumstances? Presumably any problem I run into that keeps me from riding Splash Mountain at 2 can be solved well before closing time, and limiting the window in that way would prevent these alleged closing time Fastpass rushes we're hearing about. :shrug:

That leaves way too much to the CM's discretion, and suddenly the CM becomes the bad guy. "Oh, I'm sorry...sure, your FP said you need to enter b/t 2 and 3 pm, but in reality, that was a lie--you needed to enter between 2 and 5 pm. I don't care that your grandma died, that's just how it is." They need a blanket policy--either you can always enter after a given time (but still on a given day) or you must return within the listed timeframe. FP was designed, from the start, as a guest control mechanism to prevent the waxing and waning in wait times that used to occur--spread guests out throughout the day so that waits can be manageable, and by having "invisible" guests in the queue line, they can be out eating and in the gift shops (plus, Disney can make smaller, cheaper queues for future attractions). Have an open-ended end time sacrifices that guest control, and it gets more and more out of hand as this loophole becomes more publicized.

 

[Epcotian]

No, it's not an assumption. It is actually the case that I have the ability to read .

Where was Disney not clear? And if you had actually read my post, you would see "imagine if everyone who got a Fastpass throughout the day had "something come up (give me a break...you are on vacation)"--you would have probably 15,000 people showing up for some rides around park closing." Where did I say that actually happens? Actually, I started out using the word "imagine," didn't I? To say whether a guest enters during the listed time or 6 hours later has no effect is very naive. It has already been stated in this thread that on any given busy day, you can very easily see guests returning after the listed time, and as the day goes on, very simple math would tell us that more and more people would do this, so you can have easily 100 guests per hour doing this as the day goes on. If we are talking an attraction that only allows say 1500 people per hour to ride, and it is running at a 70:30 Fastpass:Stand-By ratio, those extra 100 guests will take the place of Stand-By guests. Using the ratio I have given, 450 Stand-By guests would normally enter the attraction per hour, but since we must now accommodate our extra 100 inconsiderate latecomers, we can now only allow 350 Stand-By guests to ride per hour, making the Stand-By wait time roughly 30% longer than would have been expected. As for the whole "last hour before closing" comment, that is becoming less and less the case. Soarin' and Test Track have incredibly long lines right up to park closing, as does Rock 'n' Roller Coaster, Splash in the summer, and Space Mountain year-round. The reason the others drop off during the last hour has nothing to do with Fastpass and everything to do with a few little shows Disney likes to put on nightly--you know, SpectroMagic, Wishes, IllumiNations, and Fantasmic!
I'm glad the CMs are happy to see you, but you can rest assured that if you did this in the heat of summer and announced to everyone in Stand-By "Hey look! My FP expired several hours ago, but I'm going to ride anyway!" they would send you on your merry way into a dumpster.

Yes it is an assumption. And I did read your entire post. And why, in your condescending response, didn't you post the back of the ticket, which is where the debate lies? We all know that Soarin has had queue problems from the start, which is due to its enormous popularity and extremely limited hourly capacity (when compared to that level of popularity), not any suspected abuse of FP. As for the rest, well, read the rest of my post.

I'm merely stating that if a last hour of the day problem in fact existed, the UG wouldn't continue to recommend it as an alternative for headliners. If a problem existed throughout the day where the FP queue's were brimming with people to the point that they unnaturally affected stand by wait times, the UG and other planning sites would not advocate their late usage. Again, the goal is to have little or no line. If the FP queue is long enough to affect stand by waits, then it's longer than they want their readers standing in.