Late FP Returns Tightening Up?

[mkt]

And I agree, Passing the buck to GR is terrible, but I do reguard them as the "textbook" answer when it comes to most issues at WDW.

Because the CM either A- doesn't care enough to solve the problem, B- doesn't know enough to solve the problem, C- is scared of any repercussions that may occur should he accidentally "overcompensate" the guest, or D- is too lazy to care.

Such a lovely caring culture at Disney Get rid of the Union, and flog certain managers

 

[Piebald]

For the most part, an attraction has an idea of how many FP to expect within a certain time-frame (maybe someone else can back me up with this, but we know how many were distributed hourly, so we usually expect somewhere around that number). Essentially, on a typical day, there's no reason why you wouldn't allow a late fastpass in. The only exception may be that Soarin' has noticed an increase in late FP which has in return screwed up the overall system. This will inevitably make the wait time longer for both FP and Standby.

Either way, there was no reason for the CM to be rude to Mkt, and I will still always tell guests that using their FP late is no big deal elsewhere but to also remember that some days (when it's busy as hell) they may not be so lenient.

It's up to the CM's discretion as well as how busy it is.

 

[DisneyMusician2]

At this point, can we really trust CM's to make that call? If it is that unimportant when you bring it back, why do they not just make a FP open-ended? Just curious, not trying to be rude at all.

 

[slappy magoo]

Good movie, alas I can only see it from my perspective, but I understand theirs.

Nothing is as black and white as it seems

exactamundo.

 

[dxwwf3]

Well, from my perspective, Cast Members at attractions are TRAINED to handle fastpass. The ones you speak of talking about CoP, Harry Potter, 5th Gate, etc. have not been trained in that material, they simply are having "small talk" with the guests.

Luckily you saved me the trouble of responding while I was away from the computer :lol:

That's exactly right. There is no comparison between what CMs say about day to day operation vs. pure rumors.

 

[dxwwf3]

For the most part, an attraction has an idea of how many FP to expect within a certain time-frame (maybe someone else can back me up with this, but we know how many were distributed hourly, so we usually expect somewhere around that number). Essentially, on a typical day, there's no reason why you wouldn't allow a late fastpass in. The only exception may be that Soarin' has noticed an increase in late FP which has in return screwed up the overall system. This will inevitably make the wait time longer for both FP and Standby.

Either way, there was no reason for the CM to be rude to Mkt, and I will still always tell guests that using their FP late is no big deal elsewhere but to also remember that some days (when it's busy as hell) they may not be so lenient.

It's up to the CM's discretion as well as how busy it is.

That brings up a good point. Those special days (July 4, Christmas, NYE, etc.) are totally different from even the most crowded regular days of the summer season. I can see FP rejection on NYE when Soarin' had a 3 hour and 30 minute wait. You have to sort of know that those top attendance days are different beasts entirely.

 

[Anything Disney]

For the most part, an attraction has an idea of how many FP to expect within a certain time-frame (maybe someone else can back me up with this, but we know how many were distributed hourly, so we usually expect somewhere around that number). Essentially, on a typical day, there's no reason why you wouldn't allow a late fastpass in. The only exception may be that Soarin' has noticed an increase in late FP which has in return screwed up the overall system. This will inevitably make the wait time longer for both FP and Standby.

Either way, there was no reason for the CM to be rude to Mkt, and I will still always tell guests that using their FP late is no big deal elsewhere but to also remember that some days (when it's busy as hell) they may not be so lenient.

It's up to the CM's discretion as well as how busy it is.

Your last sentence pretty much covers it! I think management trusts the CM's to use discretion and also trusts that the guests to use the system properly. (Fast passes that are not same day, should not be allowed. My opinion of course!) If the guest can be accommodated then everyone is happy. If the guest is late and the CM makes the call, then the guest needs to respect that decision.

 

[PigletIsMyCat]

Confirmation?

I can confirm that this seems to be the new policy, and it does not appear to be at the CM's discretion.

We entered Buzz Lightyear while the Standby line read 20 minute wait. We were inside the building, next to the area where the CM generally accepts FP guests. By the way, this was about 7 minutes into the 'wait', which was about 10 minutes. DH and I witnessed a party of five guests approach, and the 'leader' (dad? hubby? I don't know) handed over five FP's. The CM politely told them that these FP's were no good, and they could either obtain new FP's for a later return time or wait on Standby. The 'leader' got a little short (IMHO) and the CM informed him that there is a one hour window for your FP return, and he was sorry but he could not allow them to proceed. The left (a little huffy if you ask me). I also witnessed the CM in question fanning out the FP's in question and studying them further. I noticed that there were two different colors in the five FP's (along the top of the FP, where the ride name is, is in color). I am not aware that they were for the wrong ride or anything, but I thought it odd that they were different colors.

I included the wait time because one poster said it was possible that whether or not a late FP was accepted was at the CM's discretion. I would guess that is untrue, since the posted 20 minute wait was more like 10 minutes, and the five extra guests would not have been that big of a deal - IF it was CM discretion and NOT a proper enforcement of FP rules.

I for one think this is awesome. Disney designed FastPass with a one hour return time for a reason. If you don't like the return time, don't get a FP. If you have dinner ressies at CRT for 5pm, don't accept a FP with a return time of 4:55pm - 5:55pm, because you most likely won't make it. Abusing the FP system screws it for everyone else, and thank gods, it looks like Disney has figured it out. If people aren't going to use it right, Disney should just get rid of it.

 

[mousermerf]

Just a note - FP in general is being worked on. It's not just new machines that "could" lead to new processes. Safari's is testing "Family Fastpass" which is one pass for your entire family.

 

[Wilt Dasney]

One person's experience: When I was trained at ToT in 2002, I was explicitly told by my trainer (who had worked the attraction since opening day) to let people in ANYTIME after the opening of their Fastpass window on that day. I have no idea what the policy is now, but on the day of my training, it was made clear that I was EXPECTED to let people through the Fastpass line as long as their ride time had opened up. :shrug:

 

[Laura]

As I've read, the fastpass counts as your "virtual position" in the line.

So picture your little fastpass ticket walking through the Jungle Cruise queue for you while you go eat a Dole Whip. The time the little walking ticket reaches its destination is your "return window". You finish eating the Dole Whip and get on the ride as soon as he gets to the front.

Now imagine if you aren't quite done with your Dole Whip. So there's your little ticket friend standing at the front of the line ready to board. But you yell over to him, "hey little fastpass dude, we're not done eating yet. Just wait right there for a while." So fastpass dude steps aside and waves massive crowds of people ahead of him while you finish your snack. When you're done, you join him at the front of the queue and ride the ride.

Is there any evil in this? No, you're simply allowing a ton of people to proceed past you in line. If you show up 5 hours after your return time, you just kindly allowed 5 hours worth of people to go ahead of you.

But obviously, you cannot use the ticket BEFORE the return window, because that would be considered line cutting. :animwink:

Using a fastpass on a different day though, is a different story. Each day the line starts fresh. So if you allow thousands of people to jump ahead of you in line and then the park closes without you riding the ride, the line starts over the next day and you should be out of luck. :shrug:

 

[SewIn2Disney]

As I've read, the fastpass counts as your "virtual position" in the line.

So picture your little fastpass ticket walking through the Jungle Cruise queue for you while you go eat a Dole Whip. The time the little walking ticket reaches its destination is your "return window". You finish eating the Dole Whip and get on the ride as soon as he gets to the front.

Now imagine if you aren't quite done with your Dole Whip. So there's your little ticket friend standing at the front of the line ready to board. But you yell over to him, "hey little fastpass dude, we're not done eating yet. Just wait right there for a while." So fastpass dude steps aside and waves massive crowds of people ahead of him while you finish your snack. When you're done, you join him at the front of the queue and ride the ride.

Is there any evil in this? No, you're simply allowing a ton of people to proceed past you in line. If you show up 5 hours after your return time, you just kindly allowed 5 hours worth of people to go ahead of you.

But obviously, you cannot use the ticket BEFORE the return window, because that would be considered line cutting. :animwink:

Using a fastpass on a different day though, is a different story. Each day the line starts fresh. So if you allow thousands of people to jump ahead of you in line and then the park closes without you riding the ride, the line starts over the next day and you should be out of luck. :shrug:

Lol....I quite enjoyed your little senario....and I'm still laughing at picturing my faspass with little sprouted legs and arms waiting patiently in the JC queue for me. In my head he kinda looks like the little frosted mini wheat guy in those commercials.

Anyway, good analagy---I'll have to remember that for when I'm explaining it to a newbe.

 

[Dwarful]

The thing is that the Fast Passes have been used for over 8 years. If it has been so long, why are they suddenly craking down on late passes now.

My guess on this (and its only a guess) is that with more people becoming internet savy and finding multiple Disney fan sites that say "yes, you can use your fp anytime you wish" it may becoming more of an issue, more people showing up hours after their stated time.

 

[MattyFresh]

I really hope they do something about this late FP issue. Last time I was at MGM for EMH and I stood in line for RNRC for at least an hour and a half, while people by the truckload just waltzed right past me. Many of their tickets had times that were hours late. I was furious and so was the other 30 + people behind me. My dad was so mad he just left. After the park closed we did Muppets, GMR (not sure why), ToT, and then hit RNRC. When we actually got off the ride, it was time to leave. What a waste, all because of the FP garbage.

 

[MattyFresh]

Is there any evil in this? No, you're simply allowing a ton of people to proceed past you in line. If you show up 5 hours after your return time, you just kindly allowed 5 hours worth of people to go ahead of you.

Try standing in line while tons and tons of people run by you....the FP is closed but yet people are still redeaming them yes, HOURS after their time window, it is evil....very evil :fork: . I hope they find some fix to this problem, because it is a problem.

 

[Dwarful]

My biggest problem with FastPasses is the thronging masses who are waiting for their FastPass Return Time waiting at the FP Queue until the minutes tick down to "their turn". If you were told "not yet" get out of our way! We have valid FPs and want to try and get on the ride. ( Same can be said of the Egress of a ride, don't stand at the exit doors and plan what you are going to do next. Exit and THEN decide where you'll go. That's another thread.)

AMEN!!!!! I can't tell you how often we have had people block us and when we tried to step around them one guy got in front of my husband and said "It's not TIME YET!" and my husband said "It is time...for our FP's anyway!" and the CM allowed us through. How difficult is this system to use???

 

[ToTBellHop]

I am certainly in favor of this--they SHOULD enforce that 1-hour window. When guests can return as they please, it increases the wait time for the Stand-By guests beyond what they would have expected from the entrance sign, which is not fair. Personally, I think the 1-hour window is generous enough. If you get an appointment out in the real world, you certainly don't get a 1-hour window to show up. Allowing guests to enter as they please tends to grossly inflate wait times during the later part of the day, which sucks--before FP, wait times used to really drop off in the evening, which was a real treat since you could ride tons of rides in the evening. I am by no means a FP hater, but by enforcing these rules, we may see an attenuation of the typically absurd wait times we now see on E-Tickets at night (Soarin' excepted). This will promote park hopping. One of the major problems w/ FP has been that it punishes those who parkhop (which Disney makes us pay extra to do). For example, those who would visit Epcot as their 2nd park of the day would often have their choice between SSE and JII, and that's about it. Not cool. With this policy now being enforced, we can expect to once again see a large drop off in wait times after dinnertime.

 

[slappy magoo]

Laura22, no offense, but allow me one little monkey wrench into your anthropomorphic FastPass analogy...

Bear in mind, since your li'l FastPass buddy can't speak, it has no idea WHEN you'll be using it, so it's waiting and waiting with no info to give the CM as to when, or even IF you'll be back later today to use it (and that's not mentioning anyone who opts to leave their li'l FastPass Buddy on line overnight, or over multiple nights, or months or even years, opting to use it "some other time").

So as the day becomes night, and attractions start getting more and more li'l FastPass buddies (name copyrighted, patent pending) waiting in the queue for their respective masters, and it's close to closing, the CMs operating any attraction has to make a judgment call. Because, at a certain point, the CM will have to close off the queue so no one on line has to be told "sorry, we won't be able to get you on before closing."

SO, the CM can either assume all those masters of the li'l FastPass Buddies will be using them today and cut off the line even sooner, potentially disappointing people who could've gone on the ride if lots of the FastPass holders DON'T return to use them...

OR the CM can assume all those old and expired FastPass holders won't be coming back, only leaving space on the "virtual" line for the non-expired FastPass holders, and let more people on the standby line...ONLY to then have a bunch of expired FastPass holders suddenly show up and demand they get to go on the ride, because after all, the time window is just a guideline! It must be true, they read it on the internet!

Not to mention anyone who has a day-old, or week-old, or however-old Fastpass who assumes the CMs will be too sleepy to notice or care.

So let's say you were the CM on that attraction in that situation, who do you tell to take off and call their Congressman if they're going to be a WATB about it: The Standby Line, who got on the line 30 minutes before closing when the sign said Standby Time was 20 minutes, but that got thrown off because of all those expires li'l FastPass buddies suddenly claiming their place in line? OR the expired li'l FastPass buddies who could've been on line during their time window but had better things to do?

Bear in mind, WDW HATES paying overtime and expects you to close the attraction on-time, even though the cutsomer is always right and should always be appeased. No pressure.

The FastPass system is not just a benefit to the WDW guest. It's a method of crowd control for the CMs. And that method is most effective when used in the manner it was designed to be used.

There may have been a time when letting people on with expired FastPasses wasn't such a big deal. After all, if someone was a few minutes late, just missed their window, they were probably on a ride that broke down, or on a bus that broke down, there was a problem with a meal that had to be sent back, bad rains closed some things down, baby had a diaper emergency, someone got stung by a bee, etc. etc., there are always valid excuses to bend the rules.

I'll even go so far as to say, IF the CMs were originally told by management to let expired FastPass holders on line, it was because WDW figured people who were late were only going to be a little late, or very late people had circumstances that were so rare and bizarre, there would be precious few people returning HOURS later trying to use an expired FastPass, and that wouldn't alter crowd control all that much.

But as the word got out that time windows weren't being watched, it's OK, you can go back ANYTIME, they don't care, that put more of a strain on the CMs trying to maintain crowd control, especially at peak times and at the end of the day when everyone is trying to get one last ride in, maybe even sacrificing seeing a parade or the fireworks to do so. And for the benefit of THOSE people, willing to miss something else to wait on that line, they shouldn't then let expired FPs be used. For the benefit of those peak times when they really need help manging crowds, observing the policy of the FP all the time is probably most beneficial to the CMs and the guests, no surprises, no mixed signals, with exceptions being on a case by case basis and at the discretion of the CMs or the managers of the attractions.

A long rant for a little issue, but there you have it...no one can accuse me of not being thorough.

 

[Wilt Dasney]

the CMs operating any attraction has to make a judgment call. Because, at a certain point, the CM will have to close off the queue so no one on line has to be told "sorry, we won't be able to get you on before closing."

Well-reasoned post, but this detail is incorrect, at least from my experience. We never closed the queue at ToT until right at closing time, meaning people could walk into the queue at one minute to closing and expect to ride. From there, we'd cycle out the queue and then close the place down.

Overtime was never really an issue, as closing CM's are expected to be on the clock for a certain amount of time past closing.

 

[Laura]

Kyle and Slappy, you both make very good points.

It is just my guess, and not based on anything other than me guessing, that most people show up on time though, so people showing up with expired fastpasses can't affect standby wait times by more than maybe 5 minutes max.

I presume that the lax fastpass rules have been used as a strategy by overplanners due to the Unofficial Guide and the internet, when they were probably originally intended just to pacify a few guests who had a legitimate excuse for being late. Now that it's become strategy instead of accident, I can understand them wanting to make the policies more strict.

I understand that many feel that showing up with an expired fastpass is "cheating the system" and so on, however, I always just considered it a "little known secret" for the past several years after hearing CM testimonies that the fastpasses really don't expire. Now that the secret isn't a secret anymore, it makes sense for them to change how they're doing things. I'm just going to adjust my "touring plans" accordingly.