Jeff Heimbuch: A Great Big Broken Tomorrow

Mori Anne

Active Member
In the Parks
No
I hear you on this. I spoke to someone some time ago who told me that the decline in food quality/service/portions is an issue basically caused by the DDP, which makes sense in many ways. Wonder if this is really the deal.

That is what I was told too. I am just not sure how true that is. I wonder what the real deal is as well. We used to look forward to eating in the parks, but it is cheaper for us to just go out in town and eat. We only do dining in the parks if we get free dining. Otherwise, we eat at POP (which has stayed just as good!!) or eat out in town...
 

DisneyPrincess5

Well-Known Member
That is what I was told too. I am just not sure how true that is. I wonder what the real deal is as well. We used to look forward to eating in the parks, but it is cheaper for us to just go out in town and eat. We only do dining in the parks if we get free dining. Otherwise, we eat at POP (which has stayed just as good!!) or eat out in town...
I believe the idea is that people pay a reduced price for food, so restaurants have to make cuts to still make a profit. We've never done the DDP but will do it for our upcoming honeymoon. Can't wait to see how it goes.
 

beachlover4444

Well-Known Member
I think the problem with the quality WDW of attractions comes from a few different reasons:

1) People do not notice or know about broken effects
2) People don't have a reference point for theme park quality beyond something like Six Flags because they've never been to DLR, TDR or USO and therefore think WDW is the best based on their own (although limited) experience
3) People don't care if 10% of WDW attractions they ride are in obvious poor shape if the other 90% are "good" when what they pay for is a day at the park, not individual rides like people used to, and that in the end is what is judged
4) There is no easy way to report or complain about broken or missing ride elements, since Guest Relations doesn't hear such complaints anymore and emails fall on deaf ears
5) Disney doesn't spend the money like the used to on maintenance as reported here by CMs who mention the significant decrease in the size of maintenance crews, the process with which parts are replaced among other things
6) For most guests and management, going on rides and having them open is more important than having everything on them work.
7) Nobody cares about a ride if it's in poor shape, if nobody cares about the ride to begin with (see CoP)

The following points are no doubt obvious, repeat information for most here, but they deserve to be said again in order to stress why things are the way they are. I suggest both "sides" of the DaG/PD crowd read these points over and think about how true they are both broadly speaking and for their own standards.

For what you pay to visit WDW, no ride should be in the shape Maelstrom is now, but things will never get better if shoulders are shrugged and blind eyes are turned. It's your money and vacation too.
If guests don't let them know and voice the concerns over and over they will never fix it. use your voice, email or whatever and mostly your dollars. they listen to dollars lost and made.
 

beachlover4444

Well-Known Member
I believe the idea is that people pay a reduced price for food, so restaurants have to make cuts to still make a profit. We've never done the DDP but will do it for our upcoming honeymoon. Can't wait to see how it goes.
the dining plan and booking reservations early is about the only way to get in to most of the sit down restaurants now. rarely can you walk in to anyplace and get a meal. quick service is nice but you get sick of burgers, chicken fingers and pizza pretty quick.
 

wdwfan22

Well-Known Member
the dining plan and booking reservations early is about the only way to get in to most of the sit down restaurants now. rarely can you walk in to anyplace and get a meal. quick service is nice but you get sick of burgers, chicken fingers and pizza pretty quick.

I visit Walt Disney World about every other month and never make reservations in advance and have never had trouble getting into any restaurant (except Ohana) on property. The Signature restaurants are normally the easiest to obtain, but others are not impossible. It's become easier since they have gone to the credit card requirement for reservations. The dining plan makes the restaurants busier but you can still dine at the last minute.
 

WondersOfLife

Blink, blink. Breathe, breathe. Day in, day out.
That's the curse of this website... It makes you notice all the flaws in the parks! /:

But.. I'll continue. Lol I went to Disneyland for the first time in October and the parks were both AMAZING! I have no idea why there's so much hate for the California adventure park, I didn't even get to go to cars land. But it was amazing! I was really imppressed with the dark rides at how incredibly... scary.. pinnochio and alice were.. but they were very imppressive. Sadly, I'm stuck with WDW and I wish I had Disneyland.

I see how people say the two parks are apples and oranges, but I really do think Disneyland was 10X times better after I actually went there.
 

TP2000

Well-Known Member
I went to Disneyland for the first time in October and the parks were both AMAZING!... Sadly, I'm stuck with WDW and I wish I had Disneyland.

I see how people say the two parks are apples and oranges, but I really do think Disneyland was 10X times better after I actually went there.

I've been noticing the growing chasm between how the two American resorts operate for several years now. What's troubling is that the decline at WDW seems to be accelerating, or at the very least more people besides myself are now noticing and commenting.

I think the recent relaunch of California Adventure and debut of Cars Land pulled a lot of Easterners out to Anaheim for the first time, and they noticed the difference and thus the increase in online commentary about it.

I read the Miceage column in question just now, as I generally only hit that site up for Al Lutz columns on Tuesdays, and I must say it was alarming. There's lots of Miceage comments on that column, but this one struck me as perhaps the core of the problem as noted by a Disneyland CM...

Westsider
December 30, 2012 at 12:57 pm
Some Anaheim managers just went out to Florida for two months to help them open their New Fantasyland, and they have returned with horror stories of how their area management runs attractions with known Show concerns and cosmetic problems and they don’t care. They don’t have Leads out there (just “Coordinators” who are responsible for lunches and queues) and the hierarchy is set up so that the managers know they can’t close a ride for Show concerns. The ride capacity is far more important than the ride Show, so the rides keep running and Show work order requests are ignored or simply never created.
It’s a very different world in Florida and not in a good way. They have lost all perspective of what Walt called “the Disneyland Show”.

Take that as you may, it's interesting.
 

Californian Elitist

Well-Known Member
I've been noticing the growing chasm between how the two American resorts operate for several years now. What's troubling is that the decline at WDW seems to be accelerating, or at the very least more people besides myself are now noticing and commenting.

I think the recent relaunch of California Adventure and debut of Cars Land pulled a lot of Easterners out to Anaheim for the first time, and they noticed the difference and thus the increase in online commentary about it.

I read the Miceage column in question just now, as I generally only hit that site up for Al Lutz columns on Tuesdays, and I must say it was alarming. There's lots of Miceage comments on that column, but this one struck me as perhaps the core of the problem as noted by a Disneyland CM...



Take that as you may, it's interesting.

Wow... Some of my old Fantasyland Cast Member co-workers will be working I'm attractions at WDW next year. Boy, will they be in for a rude awakening.
 

copcarguyp71

Well-Known Member
I know he points out the condition of the seats in CoP which I agree with. It reminded me of another thing I had noticed on our last trip. Usually when we are in the parks I am not as astute to the things I am not already aware of from reading the boards and in fact am able to enjoy the parks in ignorant oblivious bliss but I did notice that the seats in Philharmagic were in really and I mean REALLY sad condition. The lighting is pretty dim in there but even with the little bit of ambient light and running my hands over it I could tell it was...well, gross to say the least.
 

TheBeatles

Well-Known Member
i grew up coming here almost every year. my family spent a lot of money at wdw, but these days, they don't.

my parents have no vested interest in wdw nor are they here often enough to notice anything consistently not working. however, on their last trip (november) they couldn't stop saying how dirty wdw has become and how it never looked this way when we/they came (70s, 80s and early 90s). they also don't buy very much for other family members because most of the merchandise is the same every year or it just looks tacky.

if my parents--people who used to spend a lot of money here and don't come here often enough to "complain"-- notice these things, then this is a great indicator to me that more people notice what's wrong than we think.
 

TheBeatles

Well-Known Member
I've been noticing the growing chasm between how the two American resorts operate for several years now. What's troubling is that the decline at WDW seems to be accelerating, or at the very least more people besides myself are now noticing and commenting.

I think the recent relaunch of California Adventure and debut of Cars Land pulled a lot of Easterners out to Anaheim for the first time, and they noticed the difference and thus the increase in online commentary about it.

I read the Miceage column in question just now, as I generally only hit that site up for Al Lutz columns on Tuesdays, and I must say it was alarming. There's lots of Miceage comments on that column, but this one struck me as perhaps the core of the problem as noted by a Disneyland CM...

Westsider
December 30, 2012 at 12:57 pm
Some Anaheim managers just went out to Florida for two months to help them open their New Fantasyland, and they have returned with horror stories of how their area management runs attractions with known Show concerns and cosmetic problems and they don’t care. They don’t have Leads out there (just “Coordinators” who are responsible for lunches and queues) and the hierarchy is set up so that the managers know they can’t close a ride for Show concerns. The ride capacity is far more important than the ride Show, so the rides keep running and Show work order requests are ignored or simply never created.
It’s a very different world in Florida and not in a good way. They have lost all perspective of what Walt called “the Disneyland Show”.



Take that as you may, it's interesting.

i had a chance to speak with one of those managers while they were down here and their impressions are spot on.

i also think you are correct about carsland attracting more east coast visitors. i can assure you that east coast cms can't wait to go to DL/DCA to spend money and see all there is to offer.
 

Bairstow

Well-Known Member
Other than the missing chunk of concrete in front of that bear cub at Maelstrom (and the Tree of Life/Splash nets, obviously), I think a lot of this article was nit-picky.
What he points out as scuffed rockwork in that section of the attraction is usually lit only with UV lights and looks fine.
Same goes for the walkway and noise of carousel of progress. It's a big dang machine that spins around, what do you expect the moving parts of it to look and sound like?

Maybe he just took poor photos, but I was hard-pressed to see a lot of the problems he wrote about.
 

erasure fan1

Well-Known Member
Even my teenage children now notice problems without me saying a word. Our most recent ride on Splash Mountain in November was depressing. After exiting, they said to me "What happened Dad?"
I had a similar experience with my daughter. I think a lot of people (including Disney) really sell the kids short, they really do notice this stuff. When my daughter was 9 she came off multiple rides asking "hey dad, didn't such and such used to do this or that?" On a few occasions she noticed things I didn't. So many people say they don't care about the little things being broke or the general maintenance issues, but for me it all boils down to this. Disney is the gold standard of the theme park world. They set the bar and I feel for the money it costs they should strive to maintain the standards they set for themselves. Simple as that.
 

wedway71

Well-Known Member
I have also posted this link on the WDW and Disney Institute Face Book page. Get more exposure when thousands of other guests also see this as well. I was very polite but posed a statement stating that Disney leadership is NOT practicing what they get paid to teach other companies.
 

Tom Morrow

Well-Known Member
The state of WDW is deplorable. I'm sure WDW senior management preaches quality and "show" to their front line CMs and maintenance crews.
Well I can say with confidence that at the very least, frontline attraction management does not. They teach one thing and one thing only: numbers, efficiency.

Multiple major show elements broken? Who cares, load the ride anyway - I only look good on paper if the maximum number of guests ride this today! Oh but don't you DARE wear the wrong color of socks - otherwise I'll have to take the easiest possible route to discipline you, which also makes me look good on paper because it shows I "care about the company heritage!"

Basically, even if the ride's operating guidelines specifically state to close the attraction if "X" effect stops working, your frontline manager has the power to override those guidelines and 9 times out of 10 will leave the attraction running anyway, because their one and only concern is looking good on paper.

...Even though you could easily justify the closure of the ride in these situations. Even though closing the ride in the name of show quality would also make you look good as long as you made people aware of your efforts and reasoning. But of course, that requires more effort and, you know, actually giving a crap about Walt Disney World.

Of course, placing so much blame solely on them would be unfair. The way the parks are operated today, and the way you are deliberately controlled through the Fastpass system also come in to play, as well as the attitude of today's average guest. Do you close the ride to fix one effect, thereby angering thousands of guests who couldn't care less if one effect was broken or wouldn't even notice, because they've been conditioned to accept that level of quality? Or do you leave it running and hope that less than 10% of the riders even notice?
 

ParentsOf4

Well-Known Member
Well I can say with confidence that at the very least, frontline attraction management does not. They teach one thing and one thing only: numbers, efficiency.
Many thanks for the post. Your perspective is greatly appreciated. My perspective on the decision-making process within large corporations is from a different direction.

A company's ultimate goals and vision are set by the top-most layer of management, Harry Truman's "The buck stops here." First tier management drives the company in the direction their bosses set which, in turn, flow down from their bosses. Today's operational mess we call WDW lies squarely on the shoulders of CEO Bob Iger, who is responsible for the long-term health of the company he is paid handsomely to manage. Ultimately, it is Iger who needs to take into account the many conflicting demands placed on him by stockholders, employees, and customers, along with other needs of the company in order to assure the long-term growth of the organization he shepherds. Iger has it within his power to change the direction to whatever he feels is most appropriate. He truly is the captain of the ship. WDW is having these problems either because Iger is not monitoring TWDC's most valuable physical asset closely enough or because he is flowing down a series of priorities to his subordinates that cause them to manage WDW exactly how we see today. Either way, Iger and Iger alone is responsible.

CEOs are people too. They develop tunnel vision, often failing to see how their decisions affect their organization, often blaming others for their mistakes. The difference is that CEOs of major corporations are paid tens of millions of dollars to do their job and, at that price, should do it well. What CEOs often forget is that their compensation does not come from shareholders. In the end, it emanates from customers.

For the amount of compensation that Iger receives, customers have every right to expect the very best. As paying customers, we need to more forcefully insist that Disney provide us with the best service at the least amount possible. As consumers, we would be foolish not to.

There are many who defend WDW, who adopt the attitude "it's good enough" or "I just want to enjoy myself and simply turn a blind eye to it." Such consumers are doing a disservice to themselves and their fellow consumers. WDW prices itself as a premiere vacation destination. Smart consumers should demand that WDW delivers on what it promises to be, "The Most Magical Place On Earth".

P.S. TWDC spent $1.1B to "fix" DLR because DLR's guests demanded it. As a whole, DLR's more local-centric guests are considerably more sophisticated consumers than WDW's one-every-few-years guests. DLR guests have been visiting the theme parks every year for many years. To them, DLR's problems were glaringly obvious. I encourage WDW's guests to become as sophisticated as DLR guests. If enough people make their voices heard, WDW will listen.
 

Malin

Active Member
Original Poster
What he points out as scuffed rockwork in that section of the attraction is usually lit only with UV lights and looks fine.
Same goes for the walkway and noise of carousel of progress. It's a big dang machine that spins around, what do you expect the moving parts of it to look and sound like?

So its usually hidden by lighting? Which makes the situation worst because its acknowledgement by Disney that a problem exist but its quicker and cheaper to hide it away with lighting. I have never recalled Carousel of Progress making such loud noises in the past. Its these kind of excuses being made by the fan community which is causing these issues. You have on one side Webmasters who refuses to even mention anything negative towards Disney in fear of being excluded from the next Media Event. And Fans who also refuse to see a problem with how Disney is running the parks. And yet these problems clearly exist and everyone seems to know about it but never speak up.
 

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