Jeff Heimbuch: A Great Big Broken Tomorrow

copcarguyp71

Well-Known Member
I was not throwing stones. If my post was taken as confrontational it wasn't intended to be. As for being a newbee here my reply is: I have been a Disney customer for 30+ years DVC member, 20 wdw vacations, 4 disney cruises, my house is full of disney art. So newbe or not I feel I have the right to ask these question which by the way you have not answered.

See reply #54 for your answers. I thought that addressed your questions.

P.S. - I never called you a newbie as I always think of that as a derogatory term and that was not the tone I was looking to set with my response.
 

ParentsOf4

Well-Known Member
I really doubt hassling executives is going to do any good.

It's not that they don't know about the issues, or that Disney fanatics are annoyed with them- it's that they've calculated that the cost of fixing these things outweighs any potential hit to attendance that lessened maintenance might produce. Unlike Disneyland, most guests to Walt Disney World come once only every couple years and are unlikely to notice if things are grimier than the last time they were there. If you want to send a message to Disney, stop going to their parks. When and if attendance starts to slide and guest surveying reveals poor park maintenance as being a primary factor for guests choosing not to return, Walt Disney World may choose to devote additional resources to upkeep.

Anything short of that, or multiple guests being squashed by a falling Tree of Life branch, won't change anything.
Right now, corporate strategy for WDW is a 1, 2, 3 punch of "New" Fantasyland, Next Gen, and Avatarland. (With maybe something else tacked on.) The powers making the decisions affecting WDW believe this is the "winning" strategy. This is a multi-year $2.5B investment. Don't expect this strategy to change even if attendance plummets and guests are crushed by a falling Tree Of Life branch. Changing a strategy requires admitting the old strategy was wrong. With the egos involved, no one will be willing to admit to a $2.5B mistake.
 

HatboxGhost

Well-Known Member
Right now, corporate strategy for WDW is a 1, 2, 3 punch of "New" Fantasyland, Next Gen, and Avatarland. (With maybe something else tacked on.) The powers making the decisions affecting WDW believe this is the "winning" strategy. This is a multi-year $2.5B investment. Don't expect this strategy to change even if attendance plummets and guests are crushed by a falling Tree Of Life branch. Changing strategies requires admitting the old strategy was wrong. With the egos involved, no one will be willing to admit to a $2.5B mistake.

I might be in the minority, but I feel that Avatarland is a bad thing. Even with a couple more films coming out, I dont think it has the longevity. Like I said earlier, they have the rights so a Star Wars land with the works would be the best way to go and SW has proven itself since 1977 and will continue to do so... imo.
 

Bairstow

Well-Known Member
I feel like an idiot....and I should know this..... but what was the Columbia incident?

An accident that happened at the sailing ship attraction at Disneyland on Christmas Eve, 1998. A cleat tore loose as the ship was docking and injured multiple people, killing Luan Phi Dawson. His family sued, alleging that Disney had been negligent by letting the wood securing the cleat to rot, switching to a cheaper nylon rope, and by reducing the number and training of the staff operating the ship. The settlement Disney paid out was never disclosed, but the LA Times said it was in the neighborhood of $25 million.
 

asianway

Well-Known Member
An accident that happened at the sailing ship attraction at Disneyland on Christmas Eve, 1998. A cleat tore loose as the ship was docking and injured multiple people, killing Luan Phi Dawson. His family sued, alleging that Disney had been negligent by letting the wood securing the cleat to rot, switching to a cheaper nylon rope, and by reducing the number and training of the staff operating the ship. The settlement Disney paid out was never disclosed, but the LA Times said it was in the neighborhood of $25 million.
I'm sure some stooge at TDO has a spreadsheet analysis that considers such things as acceptable losses. Any idea what the all-in cost of the monorail accident was?
 

Walt Disney1955

Well-Known Member
To be honest, the last thing people need to do is complain. Why? Because management should never let it get to that in the first place. It should be management that says "let's do a whole sweep of Splash Mountain today/after close." They need to make sure the park has some TLC even when it doesn't need it. That's what Walt wanted, he didn't care about numbers he cared only about quality. That's what is important.

Obviously WDW is still miles ahead of your normal theme park. But the thing is, it should be and it should always be. There shouldn't be any gap narrowing in the process. We go to WDW because the overall experience trumps everything else. It is cleaner. Walt has been quoted as saying he never wanted to skimp on maintenance.

Now personally I don't think with the naked eye that I noticed a heck of a lot of different maintenance wise with Disneyland and Disney World. But the truth is, there are enough locals in Disneyland that would make a fuss while the people in WDW are people from across the continent and overseas. That being said it shouldn't matter to Disne whether people complain or not, just keep it clean.
 

DVC4bestvacations

Well-Known Member
Right now, corporate strategy for WDW is a 1, 2, 3 punch of "New" Fantasyland, Next Gen, and Avatarland. (With maybe something else tacked on.) The powers making the decisions affecting WDW believe this is the "winning" strategy. This is a multi-year $2.5B investment. Don't expect this strategy to change even if attendance plummets and guests are crushed by a falling Tree Of Life branch. Changing a strategy requires admitting the old strategy was wrong. With the egos involved, no one will be willing to admit to a $2.5B mistake.

What is next gen?
thanks for your explanation
 

Bairstow

Well-Known Member
What is next gen?
thanks for your explanation

No one really knows, but it seems to be an initiative to unify things like fastpass, restaurant reservations, and resort keys under a single system that allows guests to fine-tune things with their smart phones and tablets and such. Depending what you read, it will also let you reserve a ride on an attraction up to a year in advance and let the animatronics call out to your kids by name and know things about them like their birthdays because the system taps into all your demographic information as well as everything you've done on property.

I'm sure some stooge at TDO has a spreadsheet analysis that considers such things as acceptable losses. Any idea what the all-in cost of the monorail accident was?

Government fines were about $50,000, damage to the monorail hardware was $25 million, but I haven't seen any estimates as to what Disney paid out for Wuennenberg's death.
 

DVC4bestvacations

Well-Known Member
See reply #54 for your answers. I thought that addressed your questions.

P.S. - I never called you a newbie as I always think of that as a derogatory term and that was not the tone I was looking to set with my response.

Your reponse was a defensive one. I obviously invaded your comfort zone. You called me a newbe without using the term and you still havent answered the question.

It's been my experience its more effective to go to the soarce for results than to post on a third parties website.

read my signature below
 

ParentsOf4

Well-Known Member
What is next gen?
thanks for your explanation
NextGen is Disney's plan to upgrade WDW's infrastructure and provide guests with a "new" theme park experience. From a guest's perspective, its two most obvious components are:
  • Radio Frequency Identification (RFID) technology - Your WDW ticket will be replaced with an RFID device (sometimes described as a bracelet) that will track you and allow Disney to customize your theme park experience. For example, a food ordering station might speak or display "Hello Mr Smith" when you walk up to it to order your food. This RFID device will be used as your room key and to pay for merchandise, as well as for FP+ (see below).
  • Fast Pass Pluss (FP+) - FP+ replaces the current Fast Pass (FP) system. FP+ adds experiences such as reserved parade viewing areas and character meet & greets to the FP system. With FP+, you book your "experiences" on the Internet before you arrive. As a result of FP+, it is believed Disney will eliminate Extra Magic Hours (EMH).
Hope this helps!

P.S. See the following thread for additional details:

http://forums.wdwmagic.com/threads/nextgen-cit-central-intelligence-thread.857586/
 

HatboxGhost

Well-Known Member
An accident that happened at the sailing ship attraction at Disneyland on Christmas Eve, 1998. A cleat tore loose as the ship was docking and injured multiple people, killing Luan Phi Dawson. His family sued, alleging that Disney had been negligent by letting the wood securing the cleat to rot, switching to a cheaper nylon rope, and by reducing the number and training of the staff operating the ship. The settlement Disney paid out was never disclosed, but the LA Times said it was in the neighborhood of $25 million.
Thanks for the info.
 

DVC4bestvacations

Well-Known Member
NextGen is Disney's plan to upgrade WDW's infrastructure and provide guests with a "new" theme park experience. From a guest's perspective, its two most obvious components are:
  • Radio Frequency Identification (RFID) technology - Your WDW ticket will be replaced with an RFID device (sometimes described as a bracelet) that will track you and allow Disney to customize your theme park experience. For example, a food ordering station might speak or display "Hello Mr Smith" when you walk up to it to order your food. This RFID device will be used as your room key and to pay for merchandise, as well as for FP+ (see below).
  • Fast Pass Pluss (FP+) - FP+ replaces the current Fast Pass (FP) system. FP+ adds experiences such as reserved parade viewing areas and character meet & greets to the FP system. With FP+, you book your "experiences" on the Internet before you arrive. As a result of FP+, it is believed Disney will eliminate Extra Magic Hours (EMH).
Hope this helps!


P.S. See the following thread for additional details:

http://forums.wdwmagic.com/threads/nextgen-cit-central-intelligence-thread.857586/

So Disney could track us every step of our vacation. At what cost.

Now I understand your posts

thanks
 

copcarguyp71

Well-Known Member
Your reponse was a defensive one. I obviously invaded your comfort zone. You called me a newbe without using the term and you still havent answered the question.

It's been my experience its more effective to go to the soarce for results than to post on a third parties website.

read my signature below

Sorry you misread my tone...it was one of intended helpfulness and if you think I was calling you a newbie by saying you were fairly new then you better get thicker skin. I answered your question regarding contacting higher ups and that the search function would bear that out both in terms of their specific contact information as well as if anyone has done that. I did not answer your question regarding whether or not upper management reads these boards because in my very own opinion to say yes or no would be supposition at best and I prefer to deal whenever possible with facts.

I meant what I said that I look forward to additional information from your trip as we are all here to share information.
 

Malin

Active Member
Original Poster
Has anyone been on Maelstrom in the last couple days? Is it still like that, with broken concrete and exposed machinery?

If anyone has been on Maelstorm and has pictures then certainly share them with us here. If it has been fixed then it goes to show when you point out the neglect something will be done. And if it remains the same then it proves Disney see a problem and yet have no pride to bother fixing it!

I'm going to point out flaws in a dark ride by being a and taking flash pictures...

If it wasn't for the flash then you'd unlikely see anything and be complaining that the article is a big deal about nothing. What might be seen with the eye doesn't always show up in pictures. Reason the flash was needed. Although that still doesn't excuse Disney's neglect.

DVC4bestvacations you asked what needs to be done and its simple. Spread the word online. Its come to the point that e-mails and letters to WDW Management are going to fall on death ears. The and complaining on message boards don't really help the situation either. But images shown in Jeff's column spread around the internet for all to see is the way forward. It will show everyone the decline that Disney is heading in and will force Management to deal with the issues. When you next visit have an amazing time. But if you see areas of decline then take a picture and continue enjoying your vacation. And once you've return post it here for everyone to see. The hardcore WDW fans who see no wrong in Disney might attempt to give you a hard time and make the usual excuses up for them. But for the rest of us who haven't been brainwashed we will appreciate the effort. And with a bit of luck someone in power might spot it and deal with the issue straight away...
 

Castle Cake Apologist

Well-Known Member
If it wasn't for the flash then you'd unlikely see anything and be complaining that the article is a big deal about nothing. What might be seen with the eye doesn't always show up in pictures. Reason the flash was needed. Although that still doesn't excuse Disney's neglect.
.

That was kinda their point. A lot of the article (Minus some glaringly obvious issues like Splash and the missing rockwork panel on Maelstrom, which I'm sure has already been fixed) was a big deal about nothing. None of those instances of "chipped paint" would be visible to somebody who was just riding the attraction as everything is lit under show conditions. I guarantee you that anybody could go through any dark ride (at any park... WDW, DL, or *gasp* UOR) and take a flash picture of every inch of it and find the exact same "issues."

With that said, even in the (extremely rude, inconsiderate, and not allowed) flash pictures, I really don't see too much in the vein of "chipped paint." Maybe I'm just too high on pixie dust, though. :rolleyes:

EDIT: Before this is misconstrued as me again being a big ole fanboi and an apologist, WDW does have some very serious issues. As an Ops CM, I can definitely tell you that most of management could care less about show essential effects as long as they make their numbers. Perhaps (another?) letter writing campaign is in order.
 

Malin

Active Member
Original Poster
I think your missing my point! I said "what might be seen with the eye doesn't always show up in pictures" Meaning these things are being picked up in person but can't be captured in photo without the unfortunate use of flash photography. Some are trying to suggest you can only see this stuff through flash pictures and that is simply not the case.

I also feel flash photography is the least of the worries when it comes being extremely rude, inconsiderate. See the Carousel of Progress thread. But it might all be considered minor matters and I'm just a little to high on standard and quality which is something Walt Disney World was once known for around here. ;)
 

Magenta Panther

Well-Known Member
Above I mentioned the condition of the seats on the People Mover. I found my photo, which was taken in Sept. 2012.

8332934371_e9a60a1b81.jpg

Jeez...
 

TP2000

Well-Known Member
Contacts for execs have been repeatedly posted and this idea mentioned often....search is your friend. Many have written letters (including myself) and sent them to the appropriate ivory tower offices (again search these threads) and the canned responses full of inaction just keep coming back. If you think that contacting execs has not been done think again.

The canned responses come back from emails to specific Disney Executives because those executives never actually got them. :eek:

It's standard practice at Disney, as with most big companies, to give senior executives secret" email addresses, while their standard corporate email addresses go straight to a corporate communications team in some cubicles for filtering and processing.

For instance, Disney email follows a common practice of using the persons first and last name, separated by a period, and then followed by the @Disney.com address. But you can't actually reach Meg Crofton by using the Disney template that 99.5% of all other Disney employees use like meg.crofton@disney.com and that email would go to the generic communications filtering department for processing through the regular customer service channel. Instead, senior execs like Meg would have a different email address that she chose specifically, and that is only known to her circle of fellow execs and family. When she addresses the company as a whole her email would come from the generic address, so that lowly CM's can't start emailing her back and clogging up her inbox.

It was the big rumor on Disneyland boards years ago that Michael Eisner's secret email used his sons name, and was something along the lines of breck.eisner@disney.com , and an email sent to that secret address would actually end up on Eisner's computer screen and likely be opened by him. Even then, top execs like Meg or Tom Staggs have executive secretaries that comb through their personal emails to help filter and categorize communication for their bosses. Top executive secretaries are routinely trusted with exclusive information both relating to the company and the personal life of the executive they are serving, and again that's not a concept exclusive to Disney. It's how it works in any big American company.

Sending an email to bob.iger@disney.com and attaching the pictures of the stained Carousel of Progress seats will go nowhere but a cubicle in Burbank to be processed back through normal customer service routes. Thus you get the canned form email back when you think you have emailed Meg or Tom or Bob. :(
 
I agree with all that is being said, especially how the maintenance for Splash Mountain is not good. However, I am noticing that Disney is trying their hardest to keep attractions top-notch. The reason that Splash Mountain has not been properly maintained is simple. Many attractions at MK in the past few years have undergone extensive refurbishments. Last year, it was Big Thunder Mountain. If you think it through, Disney can not have two of its three thrill rides at MK shut down at the same time. And generally, the best time to do a refurbishment is at the beginning of the year. If multiple attractions are being refurbished at the same time, this will affect theme park attendance. Disney is however addressing the Splash Mountain issue as it is scheduled to go down for a three month refurbishment starting Jan. 2 until March 19. It will be interesting to see how Disney restores the audio-animatronic figures. Hope this helps.
 

copcarguyp71

Well-Known Member
Sending an email to bob.iger@disney.com and attaching the pictures of the stained Carousel of Progress seats will go nowhere but a cubicle in Burbank to be processed back through normal customer service routes. Thus you get the canned form email back when you think you have emailed Meg or Tom or Bob. :(

Yep, that is pretty much what I figured. They have little time to handle these things so they get delegated to some plebe who could care less about profit and loss statements but rather how many letters (good, bad or otherwise) they are able to respond to in a day. I tried it twice, once to DVC heads and once to parks management and got pretty much the same brush off from both which leads me to believe as I have stated in the past that until park revenues drop and DVC units go unsold that absolutely nothing will change.
 

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