Miss Bella
Well-Known Member
I think you're taking the Pizza thing a bit too seriously. I think most of the comments were in gest... you know sarcastic..ie meant to be funny.
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Is attendance really down at WDW this or…
- Thread starter coachb
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MrPromey
Well-Known Member
Barnstormer is a low capacity ride.
I can't say for certain but due to the load/unload process and the unpredictable nature of the ride-through, I'd imagine Speedway is, too.
Point being, the same number of people could decide they're doing Mansion as those and Mansion could be a complete walk-on while you'll see waits like you saw (or worse) for those two.
They're just not efficient attractions in terms of moving people through them.
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eliza61nyc
Well-Known Member
True. No. Disney was never our main love. I always admit that a few of the reasons I don't have a meltdown like others is
1. We hated our first trip to Disney back in the 80s. So it took almost 35 years for me to go back
2. I didn't grow up watching world of Disney etc etc so I've never viewed Walt as part of my childhood
3. I didn't go during the "glory" years and I don't compare the vacations I had 20 years ago to today. I wouldn't be able to buy bacon, let alone go places, if I was constantly saying " years ago you use to be able to....."
4. I unfortunately/fortunately live on the high as $# northeast coast. A week at the Jersey shore is easily 4k, I just went to cheesecake factory with a girlfriend for her birthday (lol evidently taking someone to CCF now is a big no-no) dinner for the both of us was 90 bucks bf tip. No booze. So Disney food prices really are not scary. Don't get me wrong it's expensive but not shocking
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DisneyHead123
Well-Known Member
I agree where meals are concerned, compared to the area I’m from. There are some individual items that are eyebrow raising with food though. Over $2 for a single banana, $6 for a single fruit popsicle, $28 for a mixed drink and soda (with tip). It seems like drinks and singleton items (vs. meals / plates) are priced higher.
What I find wild are the merch prices. $56 (if I remember right) for a Starbucks tumbler, $35 for a bubble wand, designer clothing prices for a park sweatshirt… I mostly avoid the parks merch.
TheMaxRebo
Well-Known Member
Q3 earnings for SeaWorld and attendance is down (2.8% for the quarter, 2.1% for the 9mos) ... Adverse weather cited as the reason
Per capital spending was up single digits
Per capital spending was up single digits
eliza61nyc
Well-Known Member
This time my fault, 10 lashes with a wet pixie stick. SorryPosters are getting a little sidetracked - again.
Miss Bella
Well-Known Member
I think the difference is when you are in a city you have a variety of options from cheap to expensive. WDW you are locked in unless you have a car.
I think cost and inflation are very relevant to attendance. I'm not sure how that's a side track. It's probably the single most relevant thing affecting attendance. It takes quite a bit of disposable income to go to WDW these days. If you don't got it you don't got it.
It seems to sell to willing guests! I've never heard of someone going to WDW to enjoy the quality of the food.
JD80
Well-Known Member
You can get groceries delivered (or bring your own). Probably the least expensive solutions. Unless you want to count walking to mcdonalds.
Miss Bella
Well-Known Member
I think will find out over the course of the next year if this is just a WDW issue or if people are cutting back on travel in general. I think it's going to be the latter.
You can, and we have done so a lot in the past (And I fully admit that a DVC room with a full kitchen and a rental car helps that significantly). But the price of airfare is up. Hotel prices are outrageous. How much does it matter to John Q Public if you can eat cheaper when your cost just to get there and sleep there has risen dramatically? Not to mention ticket prices. I really don't know.
I was thinking about this earlier: A 25% discount on a $250 moderate room 4-5 years ago is a bit different than a 25% discount on a $350 moderate room today. That's still a $560 difference over a week. Going with the average family of 4: Food prices are up and it's probably safe to believe that food costs $400 more over the course of a week than it did 4-5 years ago. Ticket prices have risen a fair amount, probably a safe guess is that it's $500 more than it was 4-5 years ago for 7-day hoppers. On what was likely a $4500 vacation 4-5 years ago, without any airfare increases you're at a 33% increase for the same vacation. And Disney wonders why attendance could be dropping?
More news in the last 18 hours about credit card debt, loan defaults, et al. If there are claims that attendance in Florida is up, it's going to be roundly, and loudly, called BS.
Andrew25
Well-Known Member
Don't underestimate Disney Quick Service. I find myself choosing Disney QSR (Satu'li, Flame Tree, Connections) often for dinner after work most days simply because their quality, service, and pricing are pretty decent.
Sirwalterraleigh
Premium Member
Travel agent contacts are saying it’s 100% both
GhostHost1000
Premium Member
Iger will probably claim they are doing everything right, people just aren't traveling as much (insert facepalm emoji)
Sirwalterraleigh
Premium Member
“…pay no attention to AAA, every hotelier, every bank, every cruiseline operator and every airline on the planet…”
MrPromey
Well-Known Member
Not to mention FP has been un-bundled from ticket prices which creates a silent price hike of an additional 12-30% depending on prices that day and if you just go for G+ or also do ILLs - that's ON TOP of ticket price increases.
That's got to be considered when trying to make a 1:1 comparison.
Otherwise, you're paying all that you outlined to spend more time rotting in lines than you did before since you're now a second class guest in the parks.
Sirwalterraleigh
Premium Member
It’s actually a miracle their attendance hasn’t dipped more than it has…now that I think about it the way you lay it out.
Unrelated story: anyone try to buy a car lately. I haven’t…but I talked to a few at work that have…and the feedback is all the same: “they’re nuts…they want 50% more than the price 2 years ago”
I get the same comment from some of the same people about wdw.
It’s no longer: “they’ll pay it…” that looks all refined and cosmopolitan
Now it’s: “let’s see if they’ll pay it?
”Splash4eva
Well-Known Member
Supposedly will be on at 4pm today. This is going to be interesting to say the least….
MrPromey
Well-Known Member
They like to talk about how they're just adopting industry norms when they do crappy stuff (like back when they started charging for resort parking before backing off when they realized people weren't dumb enough to accept that when they were already paying a crazy premium for the resort) but this kind of move is more like what they do in the cell industry (a group consumers so love, right?) where they change things around to make it difficult to compare prices either to previous pricing or those of competitors.It’s actually a miracle their attendance hasn’t dipped more than it has…now that I think about it the way you lay it out.
Unrelated story: anyone try to buy a car lately. I haven’t…but I talked to a few at work that have…and the feedback is all the same: “they’re nuts…they want 50% more than the price 2 years ago”
I get the same comment from some of the same people about wdw.
It’s no longer: “they’ll pay it…” that looks all refined and cosmopolitan
Now it’s: “let’s see if they’ll pay it?
Back before he completely lost his mind, the creator of Dilbert, Scott Adams, coined the term confusopoly and it applies, here.
The problem with this strategy is it only works when people don't want to pay more but can afford to - at least for the long-term.
Disney's approach avoids the sticker shock of seeing the higher price with the idea that once people get there, they'll be forced into spending the extra.* Maybe they notice while they're there and are irked but feel like they have no choice or maybe they don't realize quite how bad it is until they get home and a month later, get their credit card statement.
In this situation, if they can afford it, they spend it and maybe that impacts their decision to go back again or maybe it doesn't. Someone like eliza61nyc for instance, may recognize Disney's doing something kinda shady but figures "I can afford it, I had fun - oh well."
But when people can't afford it, they either go and have a crappy time because they can't splurge for the up-charges and feel like they paid a lot for a bad experience* or they get home and realize how much trouble they're in for how much more they ended up spending than they intended to.
For these people, the economy may improve but that negative memory they have of their trip to Disney will be there forever. They are going to think a whole lot harder than that first group on if they ever want to go back.
*Remember, you can't pre-book G+ anymore so there's literally no way of even knowing what the price will be until the day of. Even for those that know they're going to want/need it there is no way to actually budget for it. You just have to go assuming you'll be willing to pay whatever it is that day.
**It's always been possible to pay more for a better experience at Disney but they used to go out of their way to ensure that it either didn't impact normal guests or that any impact was hidden. Now, not only do they not try to hide it, it feels almost like they want to use it as an on-the-spot selling point - "Feeling like a pleb? Click here to pay more now and step out of the common people's line! Want an even better experience? Click here now and come back tonight when the hoi polloi won't even be allowed in the park!"
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