Is attendance really down at WDW this or…

[eliza61nyc]

I've been saying this for years - The royal "your" spending habits at a place like WDW *do* have an impact on others. By continuing to purchase all the add-ons, extras, after-hours events, and other money-making schemes, (Again, the royal) you throw your support behind those things, whether it's realized or not. "It's my vacation, why do you care how I spend my money?" has consequences.

In other news:

"Debt held by those younger than 50 years old as a share of all US consumer borrowing increased by the most on record in the third quarter, according to Federal Reserve figures out Tuesday.

Consumers under the age of 50 now hold 55% of all US household debt outstanding compared with almost 48% in the second quarter. The massive 7-plus percentage points surge is unprecedented in New York Fed bank data going back to 1999.

Total US household debt grew by $228 billion last quarter to reach $17.3 trillion. The increase was completely driven by consumers younger than 50, whose debt rose $1.4 trillion. Borrowing by older Americans was little changed."

So what one could argue is a core WDW audience - those under 50 - are taking on debt at a record pace and now hold more debt than ever. It's an audience who has been leaned on more and more during the Iger reign, and they now have to decide where their money is best spent and face higher prices, and more complexity, than ever before at WDW. Who's going to be left to visit the parks, Bob & Josh? What marketing spin will somehow MAGICALLY!!! put more people into the parks with the ability to spend like crazy in the face of economic indicators that say family budgets are already stretched near or past the breaking point?

This isn't fact, this is just me pondering.
I wonder if part of the willingness of a younger to take on debt is that its no longer considered "bad" and they're very use to it.
For example when I was a kid the mantra was buy what you could afford. My mom had one store card to Sears. My dad never owned one. Lol cut to my minions who were packing Visa's as college kids.

Also I will give the mouse world credit, they have market Disney world as a "must do" at least once

 

[Chi84]

True
But it's a lot more nuanced than just "pizza"
Disney has a lot more "parts" that make up a whole.
People here hate Ip in the parks, that for me is a huge non issue.
I'm not a fan of genie plus, I've got a bunch of friends with small kids who will pay ANYTHING to not have to wait in line.

I agree with you but I wonder if the average guest when deciding to go Disney thinks
"What kind of message am I sending to management " does the average guest even think about the company's direction??
Lol I would guess it's actually 1) will we have a good time and 2) can we afford it?

You’re right. People throw their money behind things they value and support. It’s just that they value and support different things.

The people who are lining up and buying things like after-hours events, dessert parties, etc. are rarely the ones who are complaining. In fact, those things are what keep us going to WDW. It’s the people who don’t like those things who are complaining that others are buying them. And they get pretty upset about it too - calling others fools, saying they’re ruining Disney, making decisions based on ignorance or worse.

When families get together to plan their WDW vacation, I doubt too many are making their decisions based on what works the best for all the other families who are visiting. We’re talking about discretionary spending at a ridiculously high priced vacation venue, not about social justice.

 

[Lilofan]

This isn't fact, this is just me pondering.
I wonder if part of the willingness of a younger to take on debt is that its no longer considered "bad" and they're very use to it.
For example when I was a kid the mantra was buy what you could afford. My mom had one store card to Sears. My dad never owned one. Lol cut to my minions who were packing Visa's as college kids.

Also I will give the mouse world credit, they have market Disney world as a "must do" at least once

Debt is good as long as one leverages it as investments. If one uses it to keep up with the neighbors that's not the way to go.

 

[TheMaxRebo]

True
But it's a lot more nuanced than just "pizza"
Disney has a lot more "parts" that make up a whole.
People here hate Ip in the parks, that for me is a huge non issue.
I'm not a fan of genie plus, I've got a bunch of friends with small kids who will pay ANYTHING to not have to wait in line.

I agree with you to some degree, but I wonder if the average guest when deciding to go Disney thinks
"What kind of message am I sending to management " does the average guest even think about the company's direction??
Lol I would guess it's actually 1) will we have a good time and 2) can we afford it?

Definitely not - they think about the vacation they want to go on and decide if it is worth the price it costs

Many people find a trip to WDW is still worth it (myself included) even if it is a lesser experience in some regards

 

[MrPromey]

...

I agree with you to some degree, but I wonder if the average guest when deciding to go Disney thinks
"What kind of message am I sending to management " does the average guest even think about the company's direction??
Lol I would guess it's actually 1) will we have a good time and 2) can we afford it?

Absolutely.

Nobody is planning a Disney vacation with an eye toward "the greater good" and it's hard to expect anyone to just change out of some sort of principle - especially when they have young kids that aren't going to be like that forever or are older themselves and not going to live forever.

There's never going to be some sort of collective bargaining from the guest side of things that gets them to change.

The only way they'll change is to do enough long-term brand damage they actually turn large numbers of guests off and I think even then, it'll require a sustained pattern over time for them to see it since their short-term solutions to a problem like that will be to just try pulling more money out of whoever keeps coming.

When and if they ever reach that point (maybe it's finally starting or maybe it never will) it's going to make what's happening for the company now look like a speed bump on the road to K2.

 

[erasure fan1]

People here hate Ip in the parks, that for me is a huge non issue.

The big argument isn't they hate IP. It's the abandonment of non IP that most have a problem with. It might seem like IP is hated, but I think that it's the opposite. People like myself love it. I expect to see IP in the parks. What chaps my butt is cramming it where it doesn't belong and the attitude that everything new needs to be tied to it. It's all about balance in my opinion.

 

[JD80]

Things I use to trust as future crowd level indicators are no longer reliable. For instance, I'll be back 12/4-12/11 and ADR's have been extremely limited that week for a party of two. Now if I expand to a party of four, availability is magically increased. Advanced yield management techniques makes it hard to assess how many butts are actually in the chairs.

I'm going for 7 nights with a party of 5 on Dec 16th. I can barely find ADRs but everything is fully available for 2s and 4s with great time selection.

 

[JoeCamel]

Absolutely.

Nobody is planning a Disney vacation with an eye toward "the greater good" and it's hard to expect anyone to just change out of some sort of principle - especially when they have young kids that aren't going to be like that forever or are older themselves and not going to live forever.

There's never going to be some sort of collective bargaining from the guest side of things that gets them to change.

The only way they'll change is to do enough long-term brand damage they actually turn large numbers of guests off and I think even then, it'll require a sustained pattern over time for them to see it since their short-term solutions to a problem like that will be to just try pulling more money out of whoever keeps coming.

When and if they ever reach that point (maybe it's finally starting or maybe it never will) it's going to make what's happening for the company now look like a speed bump on the road to K2.

You mean those petitions are not the driving force for change?

I'm going for 7 nights with a party of 5 on Dec 16th. I can barely find ADRs but everything is fully available for 2s and 4s with great time selection.

The system is inflexible and poorly implemented?

 

[Miss Bella]

Again, long lines do not equal more people through the turnstile.

Ha, Ha. That reminded me of Covid times when they stretched from one end of the park to the other.

 

[DisneyHead123]

Here now. Visited around the same time last year. I gotta say, something has shifted for the better with the overall vibe. Maybe it’s an improvement of post-Covid conditions, with labor shortages lessening. Maybe it’s a top-down culture thing with Iger. But everyone seems happier. Cast members, people in the parks - if one thing has improved greatly since last year, it’s the general mood.

Prices are often “I’d be laughing if I wasn’t crying inside” high, although there’s a lot of variation, with some things surprisingly reasonably priced. You can get a giant plate of food, including meat and sides, at resort cafeterias for the same price, more or less, as two popsicles in the parks. Go figure. No idea what the rhyme or reason is behind pricing.

Line lengths are also all over the place. Waited 45 minutes for Barnstormer, of all things, because my son wanted to ride it. Speedway was also posted at 45 although we did a Lightning Lane. But walkways seem less crowded than I would expect, which is nice.

My overall impression is that there are relatively fewer people in the parks compared to last year, but patterns of what people are riding has changed. Maybe the demographics of visitors is changing? It seems like the lines for little kid rides are longer.

 

[Fordlover]

Any body see Braden’s (MickeyViews) last video? He basically walked on Sorin’ , walked past the entire LL paid lane that had a noticeable wait. I feel like it is a perfect illustration of Disney today, pay more for less!

 

[TheMaxRebo]

Enjoy that crappy pizza.

Why would I get pizza at WDW?

It's always been terrible

 

[Chi84]

Why would I get pizza at WDW?

It's always been terrible

What’s the obsession with pizza in this thread ?

 

[eliza61nyc]

Management appreciates your support and low expectations!

How would you know what their expectations are?
Lol I guess the subtle meaning is that they're too stupid to realize what they want from a vacation at Disney

 

[Chi84]

How would you know what their expectations are?
Lol I guess the subtle meaning is that they're too stupid to realize what they want from a vacation at Disney

It’s what I just posted. If you disagree with their opinions, you get insulted in some way.

I know that pizza can be food for the gods, but I think WDW sees it more as something kids order so they don’t get too creative about it.

It just seems to be a weird measure to use in a place that has so much variety.

 

[eliza61nyc]

It’s what I just posted. If you disagree with their opinions, you get insulted in some way.

I know that pizza can be food for the gods, but I think WDW sees it more as something kids order so they don’t get too creative about it.

It just seems to be a weird measure to use in a place that has so much variety.

Lol, it is a bit ironic that on a Disney fan site you actually get slammed for saying you still like going to Disney

 

[Miss Bella]

What’s the obsession with pizza in this thread ?

It's on almost everyone's top ten favorite foods list. It's a staple in every country. If you can't go on vacation and get good pizza then something not right. It's also supposed to be a cheap meal when you don't want to spend a lot of money. You kind of expect it to be edible. I've had good cheap Pizza all over Europe even in Norway and Iceland.

 

[Chi84]

It's on almost everyone's top ten favorite foods list. It's a staple in every country. If you can't go on vacation and get good pizza then somethings not right.

I don’t think everyone feels that way. I never order pizza on vacation unless there’s no other choice or one of the kids wants it.

 

[Miss Bella]

I don’t think everyone feels that way. I never order pizza on vacation unless there’s no other choice or one of the kids wants it.

Not everyone feels any which way about anything, but you asked why certain people feel that way.

 

[Chi84]

Not everyone feels any which way about anything, but you asked why certain people feel that way.

It just seems to be more appropriate to the restaurant forum than a thread about attendance.

WDW has a lot of problems but I doubt too many people are choosing other places over it because of the pizza. One of the things we like about WDW is the variety in counter service offerings, including plant-based ones. It doesn’t seem fair to measure it by pizza. Just my opinion.