Is attendance really down at WDW this or…

[wannabeBelle]

In 3 days, Iger pulls tricks out of his magic hat when he and the CFO have a public quarterly earnings call with Wall Street. Would Wall Street ask your questions during Q&A? I doubt it.

Wall Street is interested in making money. Disney management is in charge of doing just that. If they arent making the money that is expected, Management is the ones who have to ask/answer these questions for real. We are just speculating here on what those questions and/or answers might be. Marie

 

[Lilofan]

Wall Street is interested in making money. Disney management is in charge of doing just that. If they arent making the money that is expected, Management is the ones who have to ask/answer these questions for real. We are just speculating here on what those questions and/or answers might be. Marie

I'm disappointed that tough questions are not asked during Q&A. When numbers are not being met, like a number of companies like to talk about are the buzzwords that make staff very nervous - streamlining, efficiency , looking at labor costs, synergy, headcount , reduction of force, cost improvement plans, etc.

 

[wannabeBelle]

OK So if you were in charge of the questions/comments what would you ask? What suggestions would you make? I dont think staffing is the issue here, or at least not at the Parks and resorts area. Part of the question is what is the goal here? Marie

 

[JD80]

And Josh was his protege in multiple divisions for years and keeps the faith alive to this very day.

I wouldn't put it that way.

Their first overlap was when Chapek was promoted to Chairman of Walt Disney Parks and Resorts in 2015. At that point Josh was already VP of ABD (2010), VP of Animal Kingdom (2013) and Sr VP of Resort & Transportation in 2014.

Two years after Chapek was promoted, Josh becomes CCO of WDW Resort in 2017, President of Disneyland Park through 2020. At that point Chapek becomes CEO and Josh becomes Chairman of DPEP.

I'm don't particularly have a negative or positive opinion of Josh right now but I don't think he was a protege of any kind. More likely than not Josh was good at networking/politicing and shot up the corporate ladder and Chapek just kept moving him up for better or worse. Probably more laziness than anything else.

I'll judge Josh when he announces an actual project for the parks that was mostly his doing which is whenever this Blue Sky nonsense becomes more clear.

 

[Lilofan]

OK So if you were in charge of the questions/comments what would you ask? What suggestions would you make? I dont think staffing is the issue here, or at least not at the Parks and resorts area. Part of the question is what is the goal here? Marie

I would ask value oriented questions that is not reality currently with increasing costs to us the guests and diminishing value.

 

[Tony the Tigger]

It’s amazing how they can be so dead and so overcrowded at the same time.

 

[lentesta]

But any time we're in the range of "everything has to go wrong for these data to be true", you want to look at other explanations. And one is that people will ask for DAS because it's cheaper, easier, and more flexible than using Genie+.

I could be wrong with all of this. Let me know if y'all see anything off.

Quoting myself to add a note. This Business Insider article from yesterday (about third-party guides) has Disney acknowledging an uptick in DAS abuse.

 

[jpeden]

Quoting myself to add a note. This Business Insider article from yesterday (about third-party guides) has Disney acknowledging an uptick in DAS abuse.

I have a hard time feeling sorry for the third-party guides. They've been operating for years in what is at best a gray area and strictly speaking, a violation of Disney's policy. Just because they've decided to start enforcing it doesn't give the third party tour guides the right to cry foul. They've been flagrantly (including advertising and social media presences) violating Disney's rules on outside commercial activities within their property and Disney has decided no more.

In regards to DAS I am not surprised there has been an uptick. For example, I have T2 Diabetes. Now, mine is in remission and I manage it through diet and exercise and if I went to a random doctor for a checkup they'd never be able to tell I had T2 if they didn't review my files (my blood work would come back as normal with no pharmacological interventions recorded). However, Diabetes is considered a disability under the ADA so I could in theory apply for a DAS pass with a recorded medical condition as the reason. I have absolutely no reason to use DAS unlike a T1 diabetic or someone who has severe T2 diabetes may, but I most likely could qualify by just leaving out key info about my health.

I am sure there are a ton of people who "technically" qualify but never thought about using it until they started charging for G+. Once you start charging for something people are going to try and find a way to get it for free.

 

[TheMaxRebo]

I have a hard time feeling sorry for the third-party guides. They've been operating for years in what is at best a gray area and strictly speaking, a violation of Disney's policy. Just because they've decided to start enforcing it doesn't give the third party tour guides the right to cry foul. They've been flagrantly (including advertising and social media presences) violating Disney's rules on outside commercial activities within their property and Disney has decided no more.

In regards to DAS I am not surprised there has been an uptick. For example, I have T2 Diabetes. Now, mine is in remission and I manage it through diet and exercise and if I went to a random doctor for a checkup they'd never be able to tell I had T2 if they didn't review my files (my blood work would come back as normal with no pharmacological interventions recorded). However, Diabetes is considered a disability under the ADA so I could in theory apply for a DAS pass with a recorded medical condition as the reason. I have absolutely no reason to use DAS unlike a T1 diabetic or someone who has severe T2 diabetes may, but I most likely could qualify by just leaving out key info about my health.

I am sure there are a ton of people who "technically" qualify but never thought about using it until they started charging for G+. Once you start charging for something people are going to try and find a way to get it for free.

I know several people who definitely qualify but in the past found they got by fine with included FP+ and would rather not use a benefit unless they really need it so didn't bother ...

BUT now that G+ is an extra cost they are using DAS as there is no extra cost for it. It's not a 1:1 replacement for FP+, but helps them out

So that isn't even "abuse" of the system since they could have used it all along but now more people are leveraging something that has no extra cost vs the system that does

 

[mf1972]

having visited from 10/23-11/2, we thought the parks were busy, but not as busy as we’ve usually seen for that time of the year. the major rides had the usual wait times, but we found it easier to navigate around the parks. on our last day, 11/1, at MK, it wasn’t that busy at all & was very manageable. 7 dwarves even had a 20 minute wait time at 10:30am which surprised us. i should add i noticed restaurants posting signs outside saying “seating available” which is something i haven’t seen in years. personally, we enjoyed it being not as busy & remember october being a slower time of the year. give it time & im sure it’ll get crazy again, but we enjoyed it for what it was.

 

[TheMaxRebo]

It’s amazing how they can be so dead and so overcrowded at the same time.

"It's so crowded nobody goes there anymore!"
- Yogi Berra
- TheMaxRebo

 

[RoadiJeff]

having visited from 10/23-11/2, we thought the parks were busy, but not as busy as we’ve usually seen for that time of the year. the major rides had the usual wait times, but we found it easier to navigate around the parks. on our last day, 11/1, at MK, it wasn’t that busy at all & was very manageable. 7 dwarves even had a 20 minute wait time at 10:30am which surprised us. i should add i noticed restaurants posting signs outside saying “seating available” which is something i haven’t seen in years. personally, we enjoyed it being not as busy & remember october being a slower time of the year. give it time & im sure it’ll get crazy again, but we enjoyed it for what it was.

I was also there at the MK on that day 11/01 and I was thrilled by the small crowds, at least until later in the day. Rides such as Space Mountain were a walk-on and several others with normally long waits were not long at all.

Since it was the final day of the MNSSHP I heard that the MK is frequently slower on days prior to the party. Either that or the cooler weather that day kept some people away.

I was at the party that evening and was dressed as Peter Pan. Peter Pan does not wear a jacket and the 50-something degree temps plus the wind made it a bit chilly for me. The early evening crowds were noticeably higher than earlier in the day but it got better as the evening wore on and temps continued to drop.

I did run across the real Peter Pan as I was walking around. I joked with him that there's only one of me. We laughed and shared a photo together.

When I went to HS two days later on Friday 11/03 the crowds were back. I was told by a cast member that there was a marathon that weekend and lots of people had come for that. I was glad I was heading back home the next day.

 

[mf1972]

I was also there at the MK on that day 11/01 and I was thrilled by the small crowds, at least until later in the day. Rides such as Space Mountain were a walk-on and several others with normally long waits were not long at all.

Since it was the final day of the MNSSHP I heard that the MK is frequently slower on days prior to the party. Either that or the cooler weather that day kept some people away.

I was at the party that evening and was dressed as Peter Pan. Peter Pan does not wear a jacket and the 50-something degree temps plus the wind made it a bit chilly for me. The early evening crowds were noticeably higher than earlier in the day but it got better as the evening wore on and temps continued to drop.

I did run across the real Peter Pan as I was walking around. I joked with him that there's only one of me. We laughed and shared a photo together.

When I went to HS two days later on Friday 11/03 the crowds were back. I was told by a cast member that there was a marathon that weekend and lots of people had come for that. I was glad I was heading back home the next day.

forgot to mention it was much cooler that day. we wondered if that was a factor as well.

 

[eliza61nyc]

Absolutely correct! And that is why I (and apparently plenty of other people) no longer do!

Those that continue to spend money are just reinforcing every management philosophy and decision. I am gladly spending my travel dollars elsewhere and feeling great about it.

True, but I doubt they look at it as "reinforcing" someone's decision. You feel great about not going, we feel great about still going.
For us it's purely whether or not we feel it's worth the money, for us it is.

I'm not sure how many people get that deep into Disney's management style when deciding

 

[Trauma]

It’s amazing how they can be so dead and so overcrowded at the same time.

I wish Len Testa would hire you, since you seem to have greater insight into attendance than Touring Plans does.

 

[LSLS]

It’s amazing how they can be so dead and so overcrowded at the same time.

Again, long lines do not equal more people through the turnstile.

 

[Laketravis]

Things I use to trust as future crowd level indicators are no longer reliable. For instance, I'll be back 12/4-12/11 and ADR's have been extremely limited that week for a party of two. Now if I expand to a party of four, availability is magically increased. Advanced yield management techniques makes it hard to assess how many butts are actually in the chairs.

 

[HauntedPirate]

By buying the product, you are communicating to management that you support their product.

If you go to the worst pizza place in town and spend your money there, you are reinforcing their decision to sell crappy pizza.

The way to communicate you do not support their direction is to not spend money there - it is truly that simple.

If you keep buying their product, then don’t complain when you get more of what you are lining up to buy.

I've been saying this for years - The royal "your" spending habits at a place like WDW *do* have an impact on others. By continuing to purchase all the add-ons, extras, after-hours events, and other money-making schemes, (Again, the royal) you throw your support behind those things, whether it's realized or not. "It's my vacation, why do you care how I spend my money?" has consequences.

In other news:

"Debt held by those younger than 50 years old as a share of all US consumer borrowing increased by the most on record in the third quarter, according to Federal Reserve figures out Tuesday.

Consumers under the age of 50 now hold 55% of all US household debt outstanding compared with almost 48% in the second quarter. The massive 7-plus percentage points surge is unprecedented in New York Fed bank data going back to 1999.

Total US household debt grew by $228 billion last quarter to reach $17.3 trillion. The increase was completely driven by consumers younger than 50, whose debt rose $1.4 trillion. Borrowing by older Americans was little changed."

So what one could argue is a core WDW audience - those under 50 - are taking on debt at a record pace and now hold more debt than ever. It's an audience who has been leaned on more and more during the Iger reign, and they now have to decide where their money is best spent and face higher prices, and more complexity, than ever before at WDW. Who's going to be left to visit the parks, Bob & Josh? What marketing spin will somehow MAGICALLY!!! put more people into the parks with the ability to spend like crazy in the face of economic indicators that say family budgets are already stretched near or past the breaking point?

 

[eliza61nyc]

By buying the product, you are communicating to management that you support their product.

If you go to the worst pizza place in town and spend your money there, you are reinforcing their decision to sell crappy pizza.

The way to communicate you do not support their direction is to not spend money there - it is truly that simple.

If you keep buying their product, then don’t complain when you get more of what you are lining up to buy.

True
But it's a lot more nuanced than just "pizza"
Disney has a lot more "parts" that make up a whole.
People here hate Ip in the parks, that for me is a huge non issue.
I'm not a fan of genie plus, I've got a bunch of friends with small kids who will pay ANYTHING to not have to wait in line.

I agree with you to some degree, but I wonder if the average guest when deciding to go Disney thinks
"What kind of message am I sending to management " does the average guest even think about the company's direction??
Lol I would guess it's actually 1) will we have a good time and 2) can we afford it?

 

[AEfx]

Again, long lines do not equal more people through the turnstile.

Yeah, I'm not really sure how many times it has to be explained.

The theme parks - including the walkways, queues, waiting areas, restaurants, even many popular ride loading systems (Omnimovers, etc.) etc. were designed for fluid guest flow, and for people to be occupying those spaces continuously who are being moved in the most efficient manner possible.

Disney was once renowned for this ingenuity.

However, starting with FastPass, and now all the digital versions, leading into mobile ordering, etc. - you have a lot of people walking/waiting around in areas that were not meant to have to support so many guests at once, because they are no longer filling the extensive queues, they are now standing around outside of restaurants milling about waiting for their orders in places that were never meant to be filled with people standing still staring at phones.

A much larger percentage of guests are waiting in these spaces now, and a much smaller percentage is in other places like queues, etc. So of course, the walkways are going to appear crowded even on marginally well-attended days, because they were supposed to be walkways - not "stand and stare at your phone"-ways.