Is attendance really down at WDW this or…

[Tha Realest]

I have a feeling it's not a coincidence. You have Disney who doesn't want numbers to come out, you also have Universal having the same view. Add in Six Flags/Cedar Fair who talked about low attendance at the former Six Flags parks and it's not much of a surprise.

You mean ann industry trade association that depends on success of their component members bends to their will?

 

[erasure fan1]

I would trade year round Osborne Lights with a nightmare before Christmas attraction in 2 seconds

One of the biggest what the heck things in all of Disney world. There should have been a nightmare before xmas ride 15+yrs ago. I'll forgive them if they do a mystic manor style dark ride through Dr Finkelsteins. If only Disney was that creative.

 

[Nubs70]

I have a feeling it's not a coincidence. You have Disney who doesn't want numbers to come out, you also have Universal having the same view. Add in Six Flags/Cedar Fair who talked about low attendance at the former Six Flags parks and it's not much of a surprise.

There was also a report today that Burning Man is also experiencing low ticket sales. This would have been unheard of in the 2010's. Since the 2010's, ticket prices have steadily risen. I think the overall symptom we are seeing is a lack of disposable income. Burning Man has responded by discounting tickets for return visitors.

2010's MBA marketing courses heavily pushed the concept of raising price points to target those with disposable income and not targeting the mass market i.e. maximize revenue by raising prices at the expense of lower volume. Seems inflationary prices have countered that strategy.

 

[JoeCamel]

There was also a report today that Burning Man is also experiencing low ticket sales. This would have been unheard of in the 2010's. Since the 2010's, ticket prices have steadily risen. I think the overall symptom we are seeing is a lack of disposable income. Burning Man has responded by discounting tickets for return visitors.

2010's MBA marketing courses heavily pushed the concept of raising price points to target those with disposable income and not targeting the mass market i.e. maximize revenue by raising prices at the expense of lower volume. Seems inflationary prices have countered that strategy.

That used to be a thing but it takes real dedication to crazy to get out in the desert and rave plus pay for it. Not so cool to make the scene there anymore

 

[Lilofan]

That used to be a thing but it takes real dedication to crazy to get out in the desert and rave plus pay for it. Not so cool to make the scene there anymore

100% . A number of concert goers in my opinion don’t want to put in the work to get to , live at and enjoy what Burning Man has to offer. Not really on the same point but it reminds me of a comedian once said that people like protestors are getting lazy nowadays. In the past , the protestors marched. Nowadays they occupy.

 

[wannabeBelle]

Interesting article from Frommer's: https://www.frommers.com/blogs/arth...rO1_XLgb63i8rxz4dw_aem_hnd3mmQgkugnOAz8VgEgbw

 

[Grimley1968]

Interesting article from Frommer's: https://www.frommers.com/blogs/arthur-frommer-online/blog_posts/disney-is-about-to-gut-magic-kingdom-fans-are-furious-and-you-don-t-have-much-time?utm_source=flipboard&utm_content=user/FrommersMag&fbclid=IwY2xjawEpml1leHRuA2FlbQIxMQABHbt9wY0Pdw51Gd488jYdDiTA-Tp6NerTFMJKR1hBrO1_XLgb63i8rxz4dw_aem_hnd3mmQgkugnOAz8VgEgbw

If it really does happen that WDW guts that iconic area to build a ride, when they have acres and acres of land behind BTMRR to build it, I've personally made my last trip to WDW. They can reroute Floridian Way more easily than it will be to fill in all those acres of canal so painstakingly put in place in the 60's. If WDW wants to attract any previous visitors back to WDW, surely this will be reconsidered.

 

[wannabeBelle]

If it really does happen that WDW replaces that iconic area to build a ride, when they have acres and acres of land behind BTMRR to build it, I've personally made my last trip to WDW. They can reroute Floridian Way more easily than it will be to fill in all those acres of canal so painstakingly put in place in the 60's. If WDW wants to attract any previous visitors back to WDW, surely this will be reconsidered.

I am no engineer for sure, but I would think it is easier to build back behind BTMRR as well and reroute Grand Floridian Way as well, plus most of the construction would be backstage as well, so less disruptive to the park as a whole. I would think this would certainly be the way to go on this for a number of reasons, these only being two of them. Marie

 

[Grimley1968]

I am no engineer for sure, but I would think it is easier to build back behind BTMRR as well and reroute Grand Floridian Way as well, plus most of the construction would be backstage as well, so less disruptive to the park as a whole. I would think this would certainly be the way to go on this for a number of reasons, these only being two of them. Marie

I guess we'll know for sure sometime in 2025, if we see the canal drained and dirt being hauled in to the inside of the park. At the very least it'll give me a heads up whether I should plan on ever coming back to WDW or find other places to go.

 

[Nevermore525]

I am no engineer for sure, but I would think it is easier to build back behind BTMRR as well and reroute Grand Floridian Way as well, plus most of the construction would be backstage as well, so less disruptive to the park as a whole. I would think this would certainly be the way to go on this for a number of reasons, these only being two of them. Marie

It just would take longer to go behind there with the amount of Civil work necessary to make that land actually suitable for development/construction. Most of the land behind BTMRR has been deemed Marginally Unsuitable for development.

 

[wannabeBelle]

It just would take longer to go behind there with the amount of Civil work necessary to make that land actually suitable for development/construction. Most of the land behind BTMRR has been deemed Marginally Unsuitable for development.

Then change the theme of the new Cars project and replace the Tomorrowland Speedway. There are a few ways to do this project without actually ruining the aesthetic of the Rivers of America area.
Also isnt the whole area behind BTMRR is supposed to be going to the Villians area? I would imagine that at least some of that area has the same unsuitability challenges? What makes that different? Marie

 

[Nevermore525]

Then change the theme of the new Cars project and replace the Tomorrowland Speedway. There are a few ways to do this project without actually ruining the aesthetic of the Rivers of America area.
Also isnt the whole area behind BTMRR is supposed to be going to the Villians area? I would imagine that at least some of that area has the same unsuitability challenges? What makes that different? Marie

They aren’t likely building in the areas behind BTMRR that are unsuitable for this project. Rivers of America is about 12-14 acres. Cars area is taking up the front half (about 4-6 acres) of the area and Villains is likely taking up the other 8-10 acres.

Tomorrowland Speedway renovations you could run into potential structural issues with the Utilidors which also would be a longer process.

 

[JoeCamel]

They aren’t likely building in the areas behind BTMRR that are unsuitable for this project. Rivers of America is about 12-14 acres. Cars area is taking up the front half (about 4-6 acres) of the area and Villains is likely taking up the other 8-10 acres.

Tomorrowland Speedway renovations you could run into potential structural issues with the Utilidors which also would be a longer process.

Unless you are going to nuke Cosmic Ray's the utilidoors are nowhere near the speedway

 

[Nevermore525]

Unless you are going to nuke Cosmic Ray's the utilidoors are nowhere near the speedway

The elevation of the track is near level with the Utilidor tunnel according to Jim Shull.

 

[wannabeBelle]

Love the discussion!!! @marni1971 @Master Yoda to add in info if possible!! Marie

 

[Grimley1968]

I think there will be challenges to build anything in a place that's been around for over 50 years. But WDW is apparently choosing to raze and build, rather than expand and build, which reflects more of their "replacement" instead of "addition" posture for the past several years, rather than insurmountable structural or civil challenges of one option versus another.

 

[JoeCamel]

The elevation of the track is near level with the Utilidor tunnel according to Jim Shull.

A map is easy to find.....

 

[Nevermore525]

A map is easy to find.....

Also have seen the map and know those locations according to the plans and was also going off information from a former Imagineer.

Appreciate your helpfulness

 

[Basil of Baker Street]

I'm not going to say heat doesn't factor in. The difference being I'll spend a couple of grand to go, walk around and be hot but have some nice meals in the evening and relax or whatever. What I'm not going to do is shell out 8k to go and be hot.

 

[marni1971]

Most of the land behind BTMRR has been deemed Marginally Unsuitable for development.

*Marginally suitable