Is attendance really down at WDW this or…

[BrianLo]

What's going to change in the fall that all of a sudden those people will have money to go to Disney?

Nothing, Disney has already owned up to such. I don’t expect improvement (for either operator) until Q3 of NEXT year.

Universal due to Epic. Disneyland due to the 70th. WDW TBD, but I think it will get more of an Epic bump than people are prognosticating, particularly if they limit epic tickets.

 

[Lilofan]

Nothing, Disney has already owned up to such. I don’t expect improvement (for either operator) until Q3 of NEXT year.

Universal due to Epic. Disneyland due to the 70th. WDW TBD, but I think it will get more of an Epic bump than people are prognosticating, particularly if they limit epic tickets.

If Epic is going down the road of a 3 day minimum ticket we will pass. When 1 day ticket opens we may go and the rest of the vacation will be at WDW.

 

[GhostHost1000]

I admit that Disney has lessons to learn, but aren’t Universal’s figures also down? If the problem were just with Disney’s brand, and if people are still flying into the area, shouldn’t Universal be flourishing? (Sorry if I’m missing something that’s already been addressed.)

well another theory is pricing there too... when one raises prices, typically the other does as well. Maybe both have hit their perceived value vs cost line.

 

[Sirwalterraleigh]

You know alot of the recessions technically begun earlier in 2024...

We need to expand our discussion/cope beyond the horizons of Osceola County…I think that’s the problem. You seem to be very inquisitive of Orlando - as evidenced by that long Comcast center post - but aren’t zooming out to address what’s actually going on from the Birds Eye level

 

[TrainsOfDisney]

I admit that Disney has lessons to learn, but aren’t Universal’s figures also down? If the problem were just with Disney’s brand, and if people are still flying into the area, shouldn’t Universal be flourishing? (Sorry if I’m missing something that’s already been addressed.)

Correct - both Disney and Universal have an issue in Florida. I think there is a lot of reasons for that.

Pricing / Value is certainly a reason. Both only start making financial sense if you spend multiple days - but multiple days means extra hotels, meals, etc. which is of course the point but that is going to drive away the one day guests.

 

[LSLS]

I admit that Disney has lessons to learn, but aren’t Universal’s figures also down? If the problem were just with Disney’s brand, and if people are still flying into the area, shouldn’t Universal be flourishing? (Sorry if I’m missing something that’s already been addressed.)

My belief is that it's pricing, and that is the BIGGEST contributor by a lot. Universal really has just been copying the Disney prices (which in my opinion is one of their bigger mistakes). I rented a beach condo for 5 days for less than the cost of a single day of tickets for 4 people. 5 days on the beach, or a single day at the parks (and I guess sleeping in my car to stay the same price).

 

[Willmark]

Objectively what has Disney done to warrant the pricing now? I’m hard pressed to think of anything at WDW that justifies the cost. We were last there December of 2018. Differences? Maybe if I squint hard? Maybe?

Disney jacked up the pricing due to inflationary pressures and because it represented their only real throttle on demand.

Problem is they are addicted to the profits they were making and are still engaged in a game of chicken with the consumer and hoping against hope they blink first.

Add to this I’d argue their customer base isn’t as large as it once was for a variety of reasons.

 

[GhostHost1000]

Objectively what has Disney done to warrant the pricing now? I’m hard pressed to think of anything at WDW that justifies the cost. We were last there December of 2018. Differences? Maybe if I suint hard? Maybe?

Disney jacked up the pricing due to inflationary pressures and because it represented their only real throttle on demand.

Problem is they are addicted to the profits they were making and are still engaged in a game of chicken with the consumer and hoping against hope they blink first.

Add to this I’d argue their customer base isn’t as large as it once was for a variety of reasons.

Removed Magical Express
Reduced park hours
Charge extra for FP now
Charge extra for magicbands now
Decreasing attraction uptimes
Decreasing quality (food, refurbs, etc.)

why wouldn't we want to pay more

 

[Gary7777777]

Objectively what has Disney done to warrant the pricing now? I’m hard pressed to think of anything at WDW that justifies the cost. We were last there December of 2018. Differences? Maybe if I suint hard? Maybe?

Disney jacked up the pricing due to inflationary pressures and because it represented their only real throttle on demand.

Problem is they are addicted to the profits they were making and are still engaged in a game of chicken with the consumer and hoping against hope they blink first.

Add to this I’d argue their customer base isn’t as large as it once was for a variety of reasons.

Great post. Your comment that “Add to this I’d argue their customer base isn’t as large as it once was for a variety of reasons.” is spot on point.

 

[BrianLo]

well another theory is pricing there too... when one raises prices, typically the other does as well. Maybe both have hit their perceived value vs cost line.

Which is why, despite Universal deserving all the praise for what appears to be a well thought out, attractive, day-one well-built park… is also raising multi day ticket pricing at least 50% next year. If not more. Into a lower demand environment.

I’m just trying to prep everyone that it might not be sunshine and rainbows. Despite Universal making all the frankly mostly correct moves here. Launching new gates can be a challenging affair when corporate demand expectations mismatch outcomes. Long term they are clearly going to come out ahead.

 

[Sirwalterraleigh]

I admit that Disney has lessons to learn, but aren’t Universal’s figures also down? If the problem were just with Disney’s brand, and if people are still flying into the area, shouldn’t Universal be flourishing? (Sorry if I’m missing something that’s already been addressed.)

I think it’s very little about “brand” …it’s about pricing.

That being said…Disney has taken a lot of hits to some of its biggest IP…and 99% self inflicted.

But the Orlando effect..and it’s spreading to California…is price.
Both companies did what is almost is impossible: they went over their pricing waterfall in a barrel. Comcast followed/go t suckered into it…

But Disney did it because their math is terrible…hence the stock problems. Too many examples even to list

 

[mkt]

It’s kinda like people are waiting to come by a year to see both Epic and Disney. It's not exactly rocket science.

Aka, The Osborne Effect

 

[TrainsOfDisney]

I think it’s very little about “brand” …it’s about pricing.

That being said…Disney has taken a lot of hits to some of its biggest IP…and 99% self inflicted.

You have to admit, if they had tried to fail with Star Wars they would have probably been more successful.

 

[Sirwalterraleigh]

You have to admit, if they had tried to fail with Star Wars they would have probably been more successful.

I think they actually did…they’re just the last not to know it.

 

[Drdcm]

Removed Magical Express
Reduced park hours
Charge extra for FP now
Charge extra for magicbands now
Decreasing attraction uptimes
Decreasing quality (food, refurbs, etc.)

why wouldn't we want to pay more

This made me chuckle because it reminded me of the bizarre ad slogan Disney used last year “why would you stay anywhere else?”.

It seems you have provided a list to answer that question.

 

[Sirwalterraleigh]

Aka, The Osborne Effect

Well it seems they’ve managed to break the grip of Stockholm syndrome

 

[Sirwalterraleigh]

Objectively what has Disney done to warrant the pricing now? I’m hard pressed to think of anything at WDW that justifies the cost. We were last there December of 2018. Differences? Maybe if I squint hard? Maybe?

Disney jacked up the pricing due to inflationary pressures and because it represented their only real throttle on demand.

Problem is they are addicted to the profits they were making and are still engaged in a game of chicken with the consumer and hoping against hope they blink first.

Add to this I’d argue their customer base isn’t as large as it once was for a variety of reasons.

They’ve spent a ridiculous amount of money and ungodly time to do construction that added net nothing…and way underdelivered on replacements.

They would try to tell you with a straight face that’s it’s a benefit to us…

When in reality it just wasted all our precious time and decreased confidence/increased cynicism in the parks brand

 

[networkpro]

My belief is that it's pricing, and that is the BIGGEST contributor by a lot. Universal really has just been copying the Disney prices (which in my opinion is one of their bigger mistakes). I rented a beach condo for 5 days for less than the cost of a single day of tickets for 4 people. 5 days on the beach, or a single day at the parks (and I guess sleeping in my car to stay the same price).

And those condo rentals will be even more inexpensive very soon as the inventory for them for sale is skyrocketing. The new requirements for repair capital reserves and more inspections since the Champlain Towers collapse flooding the marketplace.

 

[LSLS]

Objectively what has Disney done to warrant the pricing now? I’m hard pressed to think of anything at WDW that justifies the cost. We were last there December of 2018. Differences? Maybe if I squint hard? Maybe?

Disney jacked up the pricing due to inflationary pressures and because it represented their only real throttle on demand.

Problem is they are addicted to the profits they were making and are still engaged in a game of chicken with the consumer and hoping against hope they blink first.

Add to this I’d argue their customer base isn’t as large as it once was for a variety of reasons.

Now come on, they did add Star Wars land with a good ride (that doesn't work as well anymore) and 2 new roller coasters (one good, one not). And then got rid of a lot of the extra fluff like shows, street stuff, random fun extras. And you get to pay for your fast passes now. All for just an extra $35 or so per person per day.

 

[Disstevefan1]

Now come on, they did add Star Wars land with a good ride (that doesn't work as well anymore) and 2 new roller coasters (one good, one not). And then got rid of a lot of the extra fluff like shows, street stuff, random fun extras. And you get to pay for your fast passes now. All for just an extra $35 or so per person per day.

Now you did it! I miss the Osborne lights