Hyperion Wharf Begins

[Master Yoda]

Mannequins is being converted into IHOP!

www.savepleasureisland.blogspot.com

I so loathe April 1st.

 

[menamechris]

Mannequins is being converted into IHOP!

www.savepleasureisland.blogspot.com

Hardy har har.. :ROFLOL:

 

[jt04]

What businesses are "reinvesting and plussing"? Virgin is out. A rumor is that HOB is looking to get out. Ridemakez is out (for now - or for good - depending on your source). The movie theatre is making some changes to attract new guests (or encourage the ones there to spend more money), but I find the changes to be hardly amazing. The location is fine. The problem seems to be appeal to guests, in my opinion. People at Disney want Disney experiences. Not an expensive outlet mall. What is lacking are those Disney experiences.

We already discussed that Virgin leaving was unrelated to DTD. HoB threatened to leave when Disney made them clean up the acts but they stayed. Ridemakerz is staying. Moving to a more permanent spot as it has worked out for them. LMM is staying. Everyone is staying that has not already departed.

Raglan's bar business--a major compnent of its original busienss model--has been a fraction of what it was when the PI clubs were open.That's why most nights it closes at 11 or 12 rather than staying open until 2 as originally intended. And if you walk up 44 of the 52 Friday evenings in a year, you'll be seated immediately. Not true of the "signature" restaurants at Disney, or even the places over in Crossroads.

Fireworks Factory closed. PI Jazz Co.--a club/restaurant hybrid--closed. Portabello never seems to have a crowd (unlike T-Rex yards away), has zero online buzz, and has reinvented itself more than once--not the signs of a place doing gangbuster business. Bongos always seems to be seating walk-ins (I grab Cubans from the "to go" window quite a bit). Throw in Menamechris' points...



and my point stands, "adult" restaurants already struggle at DTD. Closing the nightclubs--the main adult draw to the area--to add 5 or 6 more was a ludicrous plan.



Nothing personal against Cirque--but how many WDW guests have the interest and the money to go there? Even those who do, it's a one time thing during their visit. Two shows a night, 5 days a week. That's just not a large enough crowd to sustain the type of development we're discussing.

Funny you mention that T-Rex is doing well. Seems the venues that skew the most to catering to families do the best business. Wait! I see a business strategy emerging. Disney catering to families! Eureka!

As I said earlier, everyone is seeing a decline but I bet they are doing better this year than last. It is about the economy and not PI closing especially. Finishing HW will resolve all problems.

I thought you just stated a couple days ago that you hadn't been there in a few years.

True but I was there at the start of the downturn and all seemed well. I always had to wait in line for ice cream. The AMC also was doing well. Since then I have heard the marketplace is still doing well. They really need to fix that middle section of DTD.

While I do think a lot of people are actually buying things (in the marketplace not the small shops), most people don't shop at the outlets because they have to, it's just smart to. Whenever I'm in Florida I make sure I stop over there because I can do my shopping on the cheap as opposed to full price at my local mall.

I agree. I wasn't insulting smart shoppers. I was insulting policy wonks who don't learn from the past.

Ah yes. After a bit of looking...



So then... I ask... How can you speak with supposed "authority" about the current state of DTD and its crowds (or lack thereof)??

Makes me wonder exactly when your last visit to WDW as a whole was, even. Could it be that all the long-winded "expertise" you've been sharing with us is based on less-than-current experience? Hmmmm....

I don't have to go to the moon to know it isn't made of cheese.

 

[Buried20KLeague]

I don't have to go to the moon to know it isn't made of cheese.

So with no personal experience of what's been going on at DTD (or even the WDW parks, I'm assuming??) since the economic downturn, you propose to have the finger on the pulse of what's going on??? Seriously???

You stood in line for an ice cream years ago when you were there, so therefore you speak as an expert on the topic?

Unless, of course, you stayed in a Holiday Inn Express last night.

I didn't think it was possible, but you've lost even more credibility with me than before.

 

[TP2000]

I recall that the Save PI blog previously reported that a trolley system was coming to Downtown Disney in Orlando.

A blogger can say anything he wants regarding what he'd like to see come to a development.

But there hasn't been a peep from any other reputable online source, nor has there been even a whiff of a hint from Disney about building a trolley system for Downtown Disney.

I think it has merit though. And you can be assured that almost every Imagineer has personal experience with shopping mall trolley systems. I bet WDI would jump at the chance to do something like that for Downtown Disney.

 

[menamechris]

So with no personal experience of what's been going on at DTD (or even the WDW parks, I'm assuming??) since the economic downturn, you propose to have the finger on the pulse of what's going on??? Seriously???

You stood in line for an ice cream years ago when you were there, so therefore you speak as an expert on the topic?

Unless, of course, you stayed in a Holiday Inn Express last night.

I didn't think it was possible, but you've lost even more credibility with me than before.

Seriously! That was some good reading on your part. I skimmed right over it. This makes a whole lot more sense now. Now I just know he's clueless because he hasn't actually seen it since PI left, not just daft in general... Unbelievable...

 

[lebeau]

So with no personal experience of what's been going on at DTD (or even the WDW parks, I'm assuming??) since the economic downturn, you propose to have the finger on the pulse of what's going on??? Seriously???

You stood in line for an ice cream years ago when you were there, so therefore you speak as an expert on the topic?

Unless, of course, you stayed in a Holiday Inn Express last night.

I didn't think it was possible, but you've lost even more credibility with me than before.

I didn't think it was possible either, but here we are.

 

[Buried20KLeague]

Seriously! That was some good reading on your part. I skimmed right over it. This makes a whole lot more sense now. Now I just know he's clueless because he hasn't actually seen it since PI left, not just daft in general... Unbelievable...

I actually wonder if he ever even visited PI now, honestly.

 

[Buried20KLeague]

I didn't think it was possible either, but here we are.

At least we know one thing...

PI was likely not made of cheese.

 

[menamechris]

I actually wonder if he ever even visited PI now, honestly.

I am guessing not. Like he seriously went to bat with people who are there all the time or even work there. That's like me arguing with someone in Mexico about what needs to happen there and what conditions are really like - because I went there once. :brick:

 

[Wilt Dasney]

I actually wonder if he ever even visited PI now, honestly.

You don't have to visit PI to know it wasn't made of...pe_e. And eyes.

 

[jt04]

So with no personal experience of what's been going on at DTD (or even the WDW parks, I'm assuming??) since the economic downturn, you propose to have the finger on the pulse of what's going on??? Seriously???

You stood in line for an ice cream years ago when you were there, so therefore you speak as an expert on the topic?

Unless, of course, you stayed in a Holiday Inn Express last night.

I didn't think it was possible, but you've lost even more credibility with me than before.

Yep, have not been to DTD since 2008 and I still will be proven right.....again. What can I say, I am just that good.

Sorry if that makes you envious.

PS-- the mickey store in the West End closes tomorrow so Harley can move over there as just about everything will soon be gone from the former PI that must go as the reimagining continues apace. Wow, I am more informed than people who hang out there everyday. Some imagination, huh?

 

[Ignohippo]

Okay, to try to get this topic away from this completely ridiculous argument (dude, seriously, you need to learn when to quit), I've got some concepts to throw out there.

IMO, for DTD to truly ever work correctly, here are a few places where I think they need to start:

• The Marketplace is always jammed, West Side is pretty "meh", and PI/HW is empty. To create synergy throughout the property, Disney needs to stop segregating the types of offerings it has in the 3 sections (the Disney offerings need to be spread throughout all of DTD, the adult restaurants and kid themed restaurants should be spread out equally as well). Hyperion Wharf looks like a great concept, but is it really necessary for the area to be broken down into 3 separate areas now the PI is gone?

• IMO, Disney's biggest mistake at DTD was not building at least one hotel on the property (IMO, an adult-themed resort built within PI would've been amazing). By having a resort at DTD, you have the shops, restaurants, etc. to draw guests to the hotel and you have a few thousand hotel guests that are a captive audience for shopping and eating at DTD. It would be a win-win. Anyone who has ever stayed at one of the hotels at CityWalk knows how much fun it is to be able to walk out your hotel door and right on to CityWalk.

I would use the area just west of LaNouba for the resort (which is where the best land for something like this is and would also bring business to the West Side). It would be a highrise – rather than being spread out like most Disney built resorts. It wouldn't have restaurants or shops, but would have the best pool on Disney property. This would also help to make HoB and LaNouba a bit more popular because people could plan a weekend around the shows.

The other possibility would be to tear down the Virgin/DQ building and build the hotel there. The first few floors could be shops so you wouldn't lose any prime retail space.

• The streetcar idea is an interesting concept; I think a boat ferry system could be even better, more cost-effective, unique and less intrusive.

Your thoughts?

 

[jt04]

Okay, to try to get this topic away from this completely ridiculous argument (dude, seriously, you need to learn when to quit), I've got some concepts to throw out there.

IMO, for DTD to truly ever work correctly, here are a few places where I think they need to start:

• The Marketplace is always jammed, West Side is pretty "meh", and PI/HW is empty. To create synergy throughout the property, Disney needs to stop segregating the types of offerings it has in the 3 sections (the Disney offerings need to be spread throughout all of DTD, the adult restaurants and kid themed restaurants should be spread out equally as well). Hyperion Wharf looks like a great concept, but is it really necessary for the area to be broken down into 3 separate areas now the PI is gone?

• IMO, Disney's biggest mistake at DTD was not building at least one hotel on the property (IMO, an adult-themed resort built within PI would've been amazing). By having a resort at DTD, you have the shops, restaurants, etc. to draw guests to the hotel and you have a few thousand hotel guests that are a captive audience for shopping and eating at DTD. It would be a win-win. Anyone who has ever stayed at one of the hotels at CityWalk knows how much fun it is to be able to walk out your hotel door and right on to CityWalk.

I would use the area just west of LaNouba for the resort (which is where the best land for something like this is and would also bring business to the West Side). It would be a highrise – rather than being spread out like most Disney built resorts. It wouldn't have restaurants or shops, but would have the best pool on Disney property. This would also help to make HoB and LaNouba a bit more popular because people could plan a weekend around the shows.

The other possibility would be to tear down the Virgin/DQ building and build the hotel there. The first few floors could be shops so you wouldn't lose any prime retail space.

• The streetcar idea is an interesting concept; I think a boat ferry system could be even better, more cost-effective, unique and less intrusive.

Your thoughts?

Um, they already have a ferry service that goes from near RC over to near HoB. I know that and have not been in awhile.

I love the idea of an adult hotel with an entertainment zonesimilar to PI but they have already decided to make DTD a more family friendly operation. Your idea would defeat everything they have done the last few years. What I find frustrating is that the basic problem has always been the traffic flow issue and the non-family friendly environment created by PI. Those are very close to being fixed and everyone is in panic mode. Because they know it is going to work. And all the spin of how great PI was will be silenced.

I would like to see them convert Flamingo Crossing into your suggestion. I think that would work perfectly.

 

[Buried20KLeague]

I still will be proven right.....again.

What's funny is... You know your track record is so bad, and you've been called out on that so many times (with direct examples of what you've been WAY off on), that you purposely bring it up in conversation simply to try to rile up those that know better.

I'm starting to believe that you most likely view a Disney topic and purposely pick the opposing viewpoint of the vast majority of the crowd around here simply because you'll get more attention that way... Irregardless of how you might TRULY feel about it.

If true... How sad.

 

[NiarrNDisney]

I realize its April Fools and that the claim Save Pleasure Island blog posted today is just a joke, But! It does bring up something that might be nice for DTD.
Honestly a nice breakfast place/24hr eatery would be a nice addition to the rest of the dining line up provided in DTD. I am pretty sure that after a night of drinking some people would like a place to get a bite to eat, not to mention the morning shoppers in the area and guests of the DTD Resorts may want another option or just a place to go before they start their day. Yes I am aware that all DTD resorts have some form of breakfast dining however as a person who has stayed at a few of them I am aware that they are pricey and limited in there offerings. So a place like an Ihop might not be such a bad idea. Thoughts? :shrug:

 

[imagineer boy]

• The Marketplace is always jammed, West Side is pretty "meh", and PI/HW is empty. To create synergy throughout the property, Disney needs to stop segregating the types of offerings it has in the 3 sections (the Disney offerings need to be spread throughout all of DTD, the adult restaurants and kid themed restaurants should be spread out equally as well). Hyperion Wharf looks like a great concept, but is it really necessary for the area to be broken down into 3 separate areas now the PI is gone?

You know, I never really thought of it that way. If you segregate the offerings you split the audience in half. I think the sections should only defer in experior mood and theme.

• IMO, Disney's biggest mistake at DTD was not building at least one hotel on the property (IMO, an adult-themed resort built within PI would've been amazing). By having a resort at DTD, you have the shops, restaurants, etc. to draw guests to the hotel and you have a few thousand hotel guests that are a captive audience for shopping and eating at DTD. It would be a win-win. Anyone who has ever stayed at one of the hotels at CityWalk knows how much fun it is to be able to walk out your hotel door and right on to CityWalk.

Agreed 100%. I've been to many places where hotels are built into or around shopping areas and the nearby shops and resteraunts are constantly busy. And the area behind La Nouba would be a great spot for one and it would undoubtably increase La Nouba's attendance and West Side crowds.

I would use the area just west of LaNouba for the resort (which is where the best land for something like this is and would also bring business to the West Side). It would be a highrise – rather than being spread out like most Disney built resorts. It wouldn't have restaurants or shops, but would have the best pool on Disney property. This would also help to make HoB and LaNouba a bit more popular because people could plan a weekend around the shows.

The area behind La Nouba would be a great spot for one and it would undoubtably increase La Nouba's attendance and West Side crowds. I also like the idea of an adult-oriented hotel. IMO that would really bring some edge to the area.

The other possibility would be to tear down the Virgin/DQ building and build the hotel there. The first few floors could be shops so you wouldn't lose any prime retail space.

I like this idea too. Maybe both hotel location ideas could be done.

 

[jt04]

What's funny is... You know your track record is so bad, and you've been called out on that so many times (with direct examples of what you've been WAY off on), that you purposely bring it up in conversation simply to try to rile up those that know better.

I'm starting to believe that you most likely view a Disney topic and purposely pick the opposing viewpoint of the vast majority of the crowd around here simply because you'll get more attention that way... Irregardless of how you might TRULY feel about it.

If true... How sad.

Actually there is much more to it than that. If you can't recognize that, well that is sad.

I do go out on the limb and sometimes I miss but funny that nobody can provide a list of my "poor track record". Everyone claims such a list exists but some how it never materializes. Odd.

By the way, Steve just posted that LMM will close on Sunday. The Mickey store is closing on Saturday. Both are leaving to make space for the new Harley store that is relocating to the West Side. Now the doom and gloomers will swear all day long that DTD is losing two more stores and the sky is falling. When in actuality this was planned long ago as part of the reimaging of DTD and the creation of Hyperion Wharf. I post here to keep it real. The doom and gloom crowd want to destroy. They have said as much. I am the fly in their ointment. :lol:

 

[zulemara]

Um, they already have a ferry service that goes from near RC over to near HoB. I know that and have not been in awhile.

What I find frustrating is that the basic problem has always been the traffic flow issue and the non-family friendly environment created by PI.

nooooo there was NO PROBLEM until the frickin west side was built as a knee jerk reaction to citywalk!

 

[Ignohippo]

Um, they already have a ferry service that goes from near RC over to near HoB. I know that and have not been in awhile.

I love the idea of an adult hotel with an entertainment zonesimilar to PI but they have already decided to make DTD a more family friendly operation. Your idea would defeat everything they have done the last few years. What I find frustrating is that the basic problem has always been the traffic flow issue and the non-family friendly environment created by PI. Those are very close to being fixed and everyone is in panic mode. Because they know it is going to work. And all the spin of how great PI was will be silenced.

I would like to see them convert Flamingo Crossing into your suggestion. I think that would work perfectly.

Yeah, my idea for the "adult resort" was something for when PI was still there. The resort I'd build now wouldn't be "adult" but it would have much less child-oriented offerings than your ordinary Disney resort. It would also have a designated adults only pool area as well.

If PI were still there, my plan would have been to build one tower for adults only, and another for families. It would be the same resort, but the amenities would all be segregated.