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First the napkins, now the cups?
- Thread starter ptaylor
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Hmmmm....declining by degrees.Saw this in the pictures from the 80's thread. Check out the cups....
scout68
Well-Known Member
Clearly the man in the background has used the bottom portion of his shirt to cover up the offensive drinking vessels.Saw this in the pictures from the 80's thread. Check out the cups....
captainkidd
Well-Known Member
How can they be expected to have maintenance change those light bulbs when they're only getting $500 a night per room at the GF?
John
Well-Known Member
I totally agree with you in theory, but with all do respect there is plenty evidence that there has been a slip in quality not to mention guest experience. You are useing the lightbulb analogy as a basis of your point. With only useing that analogy I would agree with you. But my mother is a fifteen year veteran cm and has first hand knowledge of the changes. Once again you are looking at the issue literally and my point is bigger in general terms.
Even the most ardent fanboi couldnt deny the fact there has been some degree of decline.
Alektronic
Well-Known Member
That's part of the problem, they lowered their standards. The SQS (Show Quality Standards) dept has been gutted, there is only a few people left. They still do show reviews and reports but it doesn't carry any weight anymore. I have seen Show Directors shut down attractions before because the show quality was so bad, but that wouldn't happen anymore.
Hourly rider counts and ride safety is the only things that count now, everything else takes a backseat. I had a manager that thought a "B" or "C" was good enough for show quality as long as they could save money on the budget even though some WDI show programmers argued with him about keeping up show quality. And where are they now? The WDI Show Programmer is still working hard to maintain show quality and programming new shows but still basically in the same position. The manager who was trying to save money and cut budgets and forget about Show Quality, well he is now a Senior Vice President and making a lot more money and making more cuts.
Tigger1988
Well-Known Member
Saw this in the pictures from the 80's thread. Check out the cups....
How about that.
Apparently not.
captainkidd
Well-Known Member
Not trying to lay blame here (or veer OT), but as a long time poster, here's what I think keeps happening: If you notice, the arguments about this specific issue always seem to come from people with either very low post counts or new members. Obviously, they have just as much right to their opinion as anyone else. However, those people tend to be not as fanatical about the small touches that make WDW the special place it is. So they see a thread where people are complaining about the napkins being used. On the surface, yeah, it seems like a silly thing. But for those of us that are fanatics and love Disney's attention to details, it's a sore spot. So, a comment is made not at anyone specific but just in general, that it's "stupid to complain about napkins or cups." Naturally, the members who are regulars here and have participated in the discussion and are those fanatics (such as myself), take offense to those remarks. And I think, even more so because it's obvious the member making the comments hasn't read the entire thread or they would have seen that those comments they are making have already been made by others. I'm not saying in order to participate in a thread you should have to read every single post, but if you're going to get involved, you should at least know what you're talking about or be prepared to get replies that seem less than friendly.
Just my opinion.
Goofyernmost
Well-Known Member
I don't disagree that there is a lot more noticeable problems then back in the old days, but a few considerations must be looked at. First, WDW has grown to a degree that the reaction time to "take care of things is slower". Some things you can't just throw money at and have it go away. The bigger it is the harder it is to manage people and assets. Second, the respect that was once automatic from guests is now rampantly in the corner of "I will do what I want, when I want and where I want" regardless of how that drains on the resources of the parks. Third, what 25 years ago was only 15 years old is now 40 years old. The heat and humidity of Central Florida takes a heavy toll, making it difficult to keep up with. There are others, but, there is no sense of including everything. I know they sound like excuses, but I look at them more as realities to take in consideration when making judgments. I am only speaking of the parks. The resorts are managed completely separate from the parks and really cannot be looked at in the same picture.
Another problem is human related and that has to do with the general attitude of the staff (Cast) and the attitude of the customer (Guest). The overall attitude of just about everyone has changed over the years. What used to be considered an opportunity is now considered a burden to be bitched about as much as possible. Cast members that look at their job as just a job and feel that around minimum wage is not enough and if they want more from me, they can pay me more, transfers to the guests in leaps and bounds. Unfortunately, things like light bulbs, mechanical rides and other things that break are fixable but attitudes are much more ingrained. You cannot fix a problem with a CM until the damage is already done.
That is why I tend to "overlook" the little things like light bulbs, napkins and cups, because they are such a small part of the experience and at best are meant to be subliminal in their influence. How do you control the emotions of 50,000 employees in real time? How do you make thousands of guests act in a civilized, semi-cultured manner? In my mind...that is where the "Magic" comes from, not an ink imprint on a recycled piece of paper. So in the sense of "attitude" yes there has been a noticeable decline in both the CM's and the Guests.
captainkidd
Well-Known Member
Or, people could just ignore the remark and not take it personally.
Now what fun would that be?
John
Well-Known Member
Once again, I agree. I think it only illustrates that the whole mess is more complex then just a lightbulb or the attitude of the CM's and guest.I am about to say some things will really make some people upset but never became a member here to make freinds.
I agree with the thought that things are much different now then they were 40 years ago, 40 years ago WDW was very very exspensive to visit. Yes it is still quite exspensive but in comparison not as much. My family only visited once before I became a young adult. My family saved for years before we could visit. Only the "well to do" families visited WDW. There was a different clientel....if you will. There were not any discounts....there was no free dining. I am not disparageing todays guest.....heck I am one of them. If it wasnt for my mothers CM discount I would never beable to afford to visit. I also believe Disney has changed their philosphy in their buisness model. Before it was about offering quality and believed that by doing this profits would follow. Now IMO its all about numbers. Maximizeing profits by maximizeing the number of guest. How many guest can we get in the gates...equals large amount of guest spending equals large profits.
Maintence is just one factor that go into guest experience. Me, I dont look for chipped paint or lightbulbs. I also dont really worry about e-ticket attractions. I have always said that one ride on a e-ticket attraction last about 90 seconds. For me I want the immersion. I want the little interactions that make my visit .....well magical. Can someone really say riding RNR is "magical" ? I want the small things that make my visit different from anywhere else on earth. I can go to many places and ride thrill rides. Take for instance COP ( which a lot of people on this forum cant stand) what other park besides a Disney park can you find something like this?....same goes for HOP, AA...what Horizons used to be. To visit WDW is to visit another place and time. It is quickly becoming just another Theme Park. How can it be fixed? I honestly think that toothpaste is all ready out of the tube. People now are screamimg fr more e-tickets.....sadly I think thats exactly what we will get....if anything.
Will I continue to visit WDW? yes I will....just not as much, and it has little to do with there not being anything new. Myself, I couldnt care less. What I am missing is the small things.....the difference...you obviously dont care about the small things like cups,napkins, lightbulbs etc....the albeit small but to me tangable things that make my visit special. We both have different perspectives on what constitutes a pleasurable visit.
Thats ok too.
ParentsOf4
Well-Known Member
This is simply untrue (the first 2 sentences).
In 1983 (the year after EPCOT opened), a 3-day park hopper ticket cost $35 (including tax), about $81 adjusted for inflation. In 2012, a similar ticket costs $318.
I respect that your family's financial situation might have been different in the 1970s and 1980s but it was not until 1984 when Michael Eisner took control of Disney and decided that ticket prices were too low that WDW ticket prices started to increase faster than inflation. As poor struggling high school & college students and later as newly minted college grads in entry level jobs, my friends and I had no problem affording WDW vacations in the 1970s and 1980s.
draybook
Well-Known Member
Not trying to lay blame here (or veer OT), but as a long time poster, here's what I think keeps happening: If you notice, the arguments about this specific issue always seem to come from people with either very low post counts or new members. Obviously, they have just as much right to their opinion as anyone else. However, those people tend to be not as fanatical about the small touches that make WDW the special place it is. So they see a thread where people are complaining about the napkins being used. On the surface, yeah, it seems like a silly thing. But for those of us that are fanatics and love Disney's attention to details, it's a sore spot. So, a comment is made not at anyone specific but just in general, that it's "stupid to complain about napkins or cups." Naturally, the members who are regulars here and have participated in the discussion and are those fanatics (such as myself), take offense to those remarks. And I think, even more so because it's obvious the member making the comments hasn't read the entire thread or they would have seen that those comments they are making have already been made by others. I'm not saying in order to participate in a thread you should have to read every single post, but if you're going to get involved, you should at least know what you're talking about or be prepared to get replies that seem less than friendly.
Just my opinion.
While I don't have a low post count and am not new, I see your point. With us it's because we didn't get to experience WDW until 2008. Therefore we have nothing to compare it to. I will admit that we've noticed small "declines" since then though, and it is being noted.
Pumbas Nakasak
Heading for the great escape.
Can always rely on your support. Long may you wear it,
ParentsOf4
Well-Known Member
Your post is telling. You mention COP (opened in 1975), HOP (1971), AA (1982), and Horizons (1983 closed 1999). You are referencing attractions that are over 30 years old.
An amusement park's life blood is (or should be) attractions. A place like WDW needs to have a good mix of the old (for nostalgia) and new (for innovation) in order to remain relevant, in order to draw new & repeat customers.
Beyond us WDW addicts, a typical family who (for example) vacationed WDW 5 years ago will ask themselves, "Where should we vacation this year? What about WDW? We had a great time there 5 years ago. Oh look, they haven't added anything since. Did you hear about Universal? They've got this entirely new Harry Potter area. Maybe we should give that a try this year?"
WDW needs to give the average vacationer a reason to return rather than being cheap and relying solely on the nostalgia factor of attractions that are 20, 30, and even 40 years old.
The following quote from Walt Disney is telling:
Even in the 1950s, Walt understood that an amusement park had to evolve in order to stay relevant.
Tom
Beta Return
Is that Mrs. Doubtfire?
Goofyernmost
Well-Known Member
Yes, that is true and if Walt were still alive I'm sure all those things would be gone now and replaced by something else, but I don't think it would be nothing but thrill rides. He didn't build his parks by catering to only one group. Disney Parks were meant to be entertainment and fun for the entire family. Too many "thrill" rides only works to eliminate a fairly large sector of the park going population and relegates many to just sit on the bench eating peanuts, while the "kids" rode the fun rides.
The uniqueness of Disney was the introduction of dark rides. That is what made them different then the other parks. The upgrading is evident by the replacement of Horizons with Mission Space and World of Motion with Test Track. But to think that when you consider that it cost millions of dollars to build an attraction, how do you determine when you should replace a ride, just to stay fresh.
Attractions like CoP really is still in place as a tribute to the man that gave us all that we enjoy so much. He can no longer be here for us to shake his hand and say thank you. Some of the older rides are there as a form of respect and admiration to a man that made the entire experience possible.
John
Well-Known Member
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