Epcot's Continued Sad Condition

[Figments Friend]

It really annoys me to no end that they simply painted over the murals. What a shame. If you're going to do something, do it to ADD value - not subtract from (or in this case eliminate) it.

I can't say I miss Kitchen Kabaret so much, but it was original and fit in the theme. They replaced it (because of low attendance and interest) with Soarin', so I guess that was a "good move" for them... But I'm not sold on it. It's neat, but over-hyped. And of course, lacks the educational impact and follows so much of the "dumbing down" of the rest of EC.

The original EPCOT Center (and what I still call it; Disney be damned) was truly EPIC.

I agree regarding the murals.
I have commented on that aspect in many past posts over the years.

Many of those original EPCOT murals were fantastic and museum worthy pieces.
A real shame they were just painted over in solid colors.
Has the fine art of mural making just totally been forgotten about..?
I would like to think fine art is still appreciated by the public...even tourists!

We are very lucky to still have the few left that we do...mainly the SSE 'Communication' mural at the entrance to the attraction, and the 'Spirit of Norway' mural in the load area of 'Maelstrom'.
The fabulous 'tile murals' outside the buildings that contain UoE and The Land are great too..thankfully these have not been destroyed.

My favorite was the Original Imagination Pavilion mural...in the load area for the Original attraction.
I keep wishing Disney Marketing would release a art print of that gem...i would buy one.

Next would be the 'sky' ceiling mural that used to be in the Land.
Beautiful and surreal. Apparently others felt it was too '70s' and 'trippy' and it was painted over during the interior remodel.

Dare i saw that the 'sunset' design that originally graced the entrance to The Living Seas was a nice one too.

 

[Figments Friend]

The old Land seating layout was cluttered and there really wasn't enough tables but it had a wonderful social quality to it. When you look at pictures of the colorful umbrellas with everyone clustered around them you could almost think of it as a busy farmer's market, (which used to be the theme of the food court). And everything was nicely anchored by the whimsical fountain.

Now there is no focal point and the seating looks segregated instead of clustered. The emphasis of the space is unfortunately on the circulation corridors. The "trees" look threatening with their sharp angles. The theme of "seasons of the year" is a nice idea but there is really no social context for it. It's not a bad food court, but it's really not much better than what one can find at their local shopping mall. Disney is supposed to be better than that.

Beautifully stated.
Agree regarding the 'trees'....glad i was not the only one to see them that way.
They look like they need to go to Tomorrowland..!

 

[Omnispace]

I adored the original dining area with the fountain back in the day inside The Land.
It was beautifully themed and the fountain was a lovely sight, especially in the evening.
The bright umbrellas, circular tables, and the chosen color palette fit perfectly.

Let us not forget those fabulous hot air balloons and the amazing ceiling mural!
I really miss that fantastic abstract mural.





A closer view of the 'sky' mural.



( starts to get all wispy and nostalgic...)

Fun Fact:
The same artist who helped Eyvind Earle paint background artwork for 'Sleeping Beauty' also did this 'sky' mural for The Land.
He also painted the mural located inside the original Imagination Pavilion, on the wall near the load area.
Cannot recall his name...my mind is drawing a blank at the moment...
He also designed the 'Realm of Art' room in the Original JII attraction ( often referred to as the 'White Room' by fans..).
I remember hearing Tony Baxter tell the tale of how this artist became involved in that project, and how Tony visited his office one day and saw this great abstract design that inspired the 'Art' room.

One nice thing about the murals on the ceiling of The Land court is that they related artistically with the balloons. The warmer colors of the umbrellas made a nice counterpoint and grounded the color scheme. Fortunately the balloons are still there though they now have to compete with a sky of banners.

 

[sweetpee_1993]

It is sooooo hard to put to words what EPCOT Center was originally in contrast to what it's existance is now. You could write books about it. Pick a pavillion. So much to say about each.

Was just thinking of JII specifically. The ride/attraction itself was incredible beyond words. When guests exited the ride they did NOT dump into a shop with merch in your face distracting you from the awesome-sauce your brain was still processing. You exited with a choice. Accept the invitation to go upstairs to the Imageworks and see what else the Dreamfinder & Figment had to share? Go see the movie? Go to the merch spot in the little building outside? Move on to the next destination? The big difference to me is the choice. It was a vote of confidence in my intellect and ability to think for myself. Guests were treated as intellectuals who were expanding their minds. Now it feels like guests are treated as mindless walking wallets. Instead of "How can we enlighten you?" it's more like "What can we sell you?" I personally find that on some level insulting.

I think back to my first time experiencing JII specifically. After the ride we went and explored every inch of the Imageworks. So amazing. THEN, we walked outside. Remember the jumping water pods? Back then nobody had ever seen anything like that. We stood there watching for a few minutes before my brother ran over to try to "catch" the water as it jumped the walkways. Before long there were lots of kids playing the game. Parents stood nearby taking pictures and laughing....all because the inspired mind of a child created a game from something nobody had ever seen before. Tell me, please, where at Epcot does this happen now??? To me, THAT is a lot of difference.

I was just looking at YeserWorld's photo comparisons for then & now. They really did a good job of capturing what has been lost over the years. Spend time looking at this. And this. I won't say every aesthetic change has been for the worse because I think if everything looked just like it originally did it'd be really dated and stale which would truly be counter-productive to what EPCOT Center is/was. Some things look a little sharper as they should. However, so many of the vistas and views are so cluttered now that it takes away from the grandeur of what's there. In the case of The Land pavillion, you can't even see it anymore! What's up with that?!?! It's not an ugly structure. How would you ever be curious about what's in there if all you see is signs and trees??? Again, I feel like this sells the intellect of the guests short. Please let us use our brains!

I'm sure others will come along and try to put to words what exactly has been lost over the years. To me, it's the loss of hope for the future (I'm not talking about the future of the park itself). It's a significant loss of intelligence. The overwhelming feeling is less about expanding the mind through entertainment and more about entertainment with a few hints of information sparsely inserted.

How things could be changed to return to what EPCOT Center formerly was...**sigh**....I just don't know. I don't think it's a simple fix. It would take a huge shift in direction and mindset from the topmost suits all the way down. I do think Imagineering could do it. Corporate-types will keep it from ever happening, I fear. What it would take is vision, not spreadsheets. The current climate of the uppers does not seem reinforce or support creativity. They're more into the numbers. Sad truth.

 

[BoarderPhreak]

...There is one redeeming feature though that i noticed a few years ago and enjoyed:

Each seating area is themed to a different season .
Summer, Spring, Autumn, and Winter all have their own sections with different colored textiles and tables.

Interesting... Is that what those sections are supposed to be? I was wondering what the reason behind the disjointed look was about. If so, that's nice at least, but I guess it's not that obvious.

 

[Ralphlaw]

I daresay that part of the problem with The Land is that it's a corridor for most rushed people to get to Soarin'. It's basically the Soarin' ride with a Land front porch.

Yeah, remodeling and time compromise an original theme. It nearly always does. When My wife and I were looking at homes, I was always amazed at how so many homeowners would destroy some really cool feature and replace it with something downright stupid or ugly. I've seen beautiful hardwood floors painted purple, and a nicely flowing, spacious kitchen torn apart because someone wanted to install a patio door. Stupid.

The Land murals look really cool, but I must say that they are so dated that most people today would likely be turned off by them. Future World is about, duh, the future, and it's probably impossible to maintain nostalgia in a place where the future is expected. The Land already screams 70's and early 80's, and that quite honestly detracts from the idea that we're focused on the future. A retro view of the future may belong in Tomorrowland (with Astro Orbiter especially), but most of us expect more out of Future World. Sadly, a few steps away, there's Capt EO with Michael Jackson, and there ain't much futuristic about a recycled Michael Jackson film.

Easy ideas to future up the place:
1. Let kids at Innoventions make some type of solar device, like a propeller beanie or some such other things.
2. Have an area that shows live, or at least recent, images from the Hubble, or land telescopes, or Mars Rovers.
3. Get above the place somehow. Nearly every park has a roller coaster or other outdoor attraction that lets you see the place from up high. Epcot doesn't, other than that very brief glimpse from Maelstrom.
4. Why can't we plant some flowers or something somewhere in this place that focuses on the environment?
5. Why can't we do a little topiary somewhere?
6. The biggest aeronautical accomplishment in the last year was that guy who skydived from outer space. Why can't some kind of reprogrammable simulator do something with that shortly after it happens?
7. Why can't Mission Space, like Star Tours, take us to other places as well, like a comet, or asteroid, or Saturn?
8. With photo tech, why can't there be kiosks where you see a scene live, like the Land or Innoventions Plaza, but then use a computer screen to put you, and Iron Man, or Johnny Depp, or some other folks with you? Maybe you could even change the colors or a few other features of your artwork, pay a fee, and then buy it. Or, for free, send it home or to your gizmo. This would bring endearment for people to the various scenes.
9. Really take that epic idea, and do something. What is EPIC today, and then build it. Tall buildings (yeah, too expensive), but find out what excites society in this way, and do it. Again, kiosks that let you replace Spaceship Earth with the death star, or Universe of Energy with the floating aircraft carrier from Avengers.
10. To bring back Wonders of Life, have a thing that shows you 20 pounds lighter, or with 10 pounds more of upper body muscle. Or with a scorpion's tale. Or three heads.

Yeah, ideas are easy, but making them work is hard. Too bad that "can do spirit" seems to get stuck in committees these days. For fun, what other ideas do all of you have? Of course, don't forget that there's a money side to all of this as well.

 

[Ralphlaw]

I just had another idea:

Why can't Future World, at night, change in the same way that Cinderella's castle changes in The Music, Memories show? One minute you're walking through Future World, and suddenly it changes to Asgard, or Coruscant, or Dubai, for that matter. And from World Showcase, why can't various walls be used to project scenes from other cities? Imagine the big wall from Test Track suddenly looking like the Kremlin and St. Basil's cathedral, and then switch over ten minutes later to Stonehenge, and then Budapest, and then Shanghai, etc. . .

They're already doing this on a much smaller scale in that one bar on the new Disney ships. They have the technology, and I think people would find it exciting. In my opinion, it would look Epic. And maybe something could even be done during daylight hours. It sure beats the big Siemens sign on Spaceship Earth.

 

[SteveAZee]

If you're looking to improve Epcot, why not bring in 'celebrity specialists' to guide a re-emergence of the park. Get Neil deGrasse Tyson to lead a committee for Future World and Michael Palin for World Showcase. The idea would be to make it both interesting, educational, and fun again. Why celebrities? So they can (and would) sell it during and after the development begins, and to also bring in other celebrities/famous people to co-create the new experiences with them.

 

[Ralphlaw]

I believe such committees were used during the original concepts for Epcot back in the 70's. I don't know if they used celebrities, but today's celebrity scientists could definitely add some spark. Great idea.

 

[Disneyfann]

The whole thing is, however many of us go or dont go to the parks, it doesnt matter. They make their money on young families of 4, large group trips and reunions, and tours. Sad but true.

 

[Ralphlaw]

Gee, I'm part of a family of 4.

 

[Matt_Black]

Agree, and thanks for mentioning the 'inspiring music'

Do I need to bring up the Rocketeer theme I heard playing two weeks ago? If that ain't epic and inspiring, then I don't know what is.

 

[ericw]

Tons of cars parked up on the grass hills in the front, what was that about? food and wine vendor workers?

I was there that same day and was one of the cars parked on the grass. I arrived about 830 and they just started diverting cars to the grass lot. I didnt like riding around there in a rental car. parking seemed to be all over the place on this trip. They didnt seem to me anyway to he on top of it with enough people to direct where you should go and they woukd suddenly send you somewhere else befpre the corrent row was full . actually thought it wasnt all that bad at Epcot that day. I was expecting a lot worse with it being a holiday weekend . I agree they need to do some updating.

 

[Figments Friend]

Do I need to bring up the Rocketeer theme I heard playing two weeks ago? If that ain't epic and inspiring, then I don't know what is.

Yeah that is a great theme.
It has been a part of the Soarin' queue music since opening.

You can also hear it sometimes at Hollywood Studios in the various mix of 'movie themes' that play outside the turnstiles and in the area of that huge Hat.

'The Rocketeer' was a fun movie...the music was a big part of the appeal for me.
Thanks for bringing it up..need to watch that one again soon.

 

[Figments Friend]

One nice thing about the murals on the ceiling of The Land court is that they related artistically with the balloons. The warmer colors of the umbrellas made a nice counterpoint and grounded the color scheme. Fortunately the balloons are still there though they now have to compete with a sky of banners.

Agree...there was a nice interplay at work there between the balloons and the 'sky' mural.

Yes, those banners are quite distracting that are there now.
The photos someone posted earlier of the current Pavilion interior show how 'cluttered' it looks now.
Colorful, yes...but the banners add a lot of 'busy-ness' to what was once a serene and comforting place.

The Land used to be 'welcoming'...as our Earth would be.
That was the original design intent.
It still is in some respects, but i think that serene aspect has ebbed away with the removal of some of the original design intents.
Understandable though considering how much more active the Pavilion now is due to the addition of 'Soarin'.


The crowd flow now definately makes it much more active...so perhaps the designers felt it was time to freshen the place up with brighter colors to reflect that.
That past serene ambiance theme would not quite fit with the kind of activity the Pavilion gets these days.

The downside i see is we are left with a interior that now more resembles a local shopping mall instead of something more interesting or unique. Something one used to expect to see at EPCOT at Walt Disney World.

We are lucky we still have the balloons. Love that they are still present.
When i look at them, i am reminded of the original proposed Land Pavilion with the hot air balloon ride attraction.

 

[Figments Friend]

We were talking earlier about attractive interiors that used to be at EPCOT....like The Land...and i had to post this photo.
My favorite interior of a past EPCOT Pavilion -



Everything about this is great from a design standpoint and perfectly fits to imaginative theme of the Original Imagination Pavilion.

The color palette, the paintings, the spiral staircase, and not to forget that spectacular mural above the load area.
That mural actually foreshadowed everything you were about to experience while on the ride.

So much great eye candy here.
You can tell a lot of thought went into this back then.
Contrast and compare.

Those surreal shapes that cover the elevator in the center of the stairway, and are matched by the etched designs on the staircases' glass.
The mirrored accents on some of the supports, and escalator to the right.
The beautifully done swirl of 'clouds' that are painted on the ceiling.
'John Hench Purple' everywhere...! YES !


I am still angry that this was gutted for that loud 'hallway' we have now.
( tries to suppress self... )

 

[Figments Friend]

Guests were treated as intellectuals who were expanding their minds. Now it feels like guests are treated as mindless walking wallets.
Instead of "How can we enlighten you?" it's more like "What can we sell you?"
I personally find that on some level insulting.

And that, my friends, is the core issue with EPCOT today and EPCOT Center of the past.
That 'attitude' we were talking about earlier.
That persistence for the Pavilions and the attractions within to empower and inspire you on more levels then just being appealing enough to make you want to buy the latest synergy tie-in IP.

Yep...that is it right there.
Glad to see others have figured this out and understand.
Now we just need to get the higher ups in Parks &Resorts and the purse holders above them to understand that...!

 

[marni1971]

We were talking earlier about attractive interiors that used to be at EPCOT....like The Land...and i had to post this photo.
My favorite interior of a past EPCOT Pavilion -

Having owned this photo for decades, it was only a few years back I realised something. No ride vehicles! Undoubtedly taken late 1982 you can see the load platform on left behind the rails, the ride entrance void (where todays queue goes sadly) but no RVs.

 

[George]

@marni1971 @Figments Friend - Do either of you know of any rumors regarding Epcot? Is the company satisfied with the park as it is now?

 

[Figments Friend]

Having owned this photo for decades, it was only a few years back I realised something. No ride vehicles! Undoubtedly taken late 1982 you can see the load platform on left behind the rails, the ride entrance void (where todays queue goes sadly) but no RVs.

Sharp eyes there Martin!
Nice observation there.

Yeah, the Pavilion is open but not the ride.
That narrow time frame before the unleashing ....

Makes this particular photo all the more special.



I enjoy the vehicles not being present in this image, because it gives you a better view of the overall interior.
If the bright and shiny blue vehicles were there, your eye would tend to go towards them in this setting.
Perfect for when you are actually there ....and need to see where the ride entrance is.
Better they are absent for a photo designed to show off the interior design.