Epcot's Continued Sad Condition

[Figments Friend]

@marni1971 @Figments Friend - Do either of you know of any rumors regarding Epcot? Is the company satisfied with the park as it is now?

I don*t think i am the one that can really have a clear answer to either of those questions, George.

The last bonified *rumor* i heard related to EPCOT was the rumblings related to the Imagination Pavilion re-imagining.
We have heard it all before....for years now.....about plans in the pipeline to overhaul the Pavilion and revamp the currant attractions list.
This has yet to have happened as we all know, the project constantly being delayed due to budgets or inter-Company drama....or just pure lack of interest up to this point within certain parties.

When the recent rumor surfaced about the Pavilion being slated for closure early next year i had to take it with a grain of salt.
*Here we go again...* part of me was thinking...

What sparked my interest this time around however was this:
Words exchanged regarding the *rumor* of Tony Baxter being a adviser to the currant version of the proposed project.
There was talk of this a few months ago...not sure if this is still the case.
At the time the wording was along the lines of him being *allowed* to *play around a little* with whatever concepts had been developed.

Things constantly change...so what might be absolutely *happening* or *true* at one point in time can suddenly a few months later turn into * not happening* and * not true*.

Rumors are rumors...but i trust the source for this one.

I will confess i would be absolutely thrilled if this happens.

Having his imput and advice on the project will take it to another level, however small the influence may be in the end if the case may be.
Wether or not the team assigned to producing the re-do is open and willing to take him up on what he has to offer is another matter, but i would like to think things could be beneficial for both parties.
Nothing wrong with getting some new talent into the mix, but having someone with the experience who came before you offering some insights on the sidelines never hurts.
The Guests will end up the real winners though, when they deliver a better attraction then what is currently there.

It would mean a lot to Tony i am sure...and of course the fan community would likely be thrilled.


Again, just a rumor.
I have no real *insider edge* at all....at least, in my opinion.

Martin i am sure can give you much better insights.

 

[Omnispace]

We were talking earlier about attractive interiors that used to be at EPCOT....like The Land...and i had to post this photo.
My favorite interior of a past EPCOT Pavilion -



Everything about this is great from a design standpoint and perfectly fits to imaginative theme of the Original Imagination Pavilion.

The color palette, the paintings, the spiral staircase, and not to forget that spectacular mural above the load area.
That mural actually foreshadowed everything you were about to experience while on the ride.

So much great eye candy here.
You can tell a lot of thought went into this back then.
Contrast and compare.

Those surreal shapes that cover the elevator in the center of the stairway, and are matched by the etched designs on the staircases' glass.
The mirrored accents on some of the supports, and escalator to the right.
The beautifully done swirl of 'clouds' that are painted on the ceiling.
'John Hench Purple' everywhere...! YES !


I am still angry that this was gutted for that loud 'hallway' we have now.
( tries to suppress self... )

Thanks for pointing out all those great design features. I'm sure that the team that developed the current attraction thought they were being very clever as well with all the little things that they did to create an "Imagination Institute". Unfortunately it's a product of its time -- when designs were loud and garish and being clever was coming up with obscure puns and drenching everything in irony. Plus, those Disney purse strings were being held very tight even when there was a substantial I.P. tie-in and a sponsor. It just goes to show that if something doesn't have any "heart", all the clever designing in the world can't make it come to life. The current Imagination Institute is about as soul-less as they get. Even the reintroduction of Figment couldn't revive it.

My hope is that when the time comes to really do a thorough overhaul of the Imagination pavilion, that they seriously look at what made it a success in the beginning: lovable, well-designed characters; immersive experiences; fountains with personalities; fundamentally interactive exhibits where one could get hands-on and manipulate things. But they will have to go over the top and I think a necessity would be to realize one of my favorite renderings of EPCOT Center -- add all the wonderful extra touches to show that what's inside is once again going to be something extremely special and worthwhile.

 

[sweetpee_1993]

Oh my. I'm speechless. Let me get my tissues.

I know I remember being here and I saw this with my own eyes and I could describe to you all the placement, shapes, colors, layout, etc. but it's been so long. This particular perspective, I could describe it to you but even my minds eye doesn't connect all the pieces sometimes so I can truly "see" this the way the picture shows it. It's like a distant déjà vu that suddenly I know and my heart leaps & breaks all in the same moment.

You know what I forgot? I forgot how the colors and lines played with the eye. You're drawn upward into a dream, into the heavens above. Do you see it, the deep colors and shadows with the spire shapes in contrast leading you upward into the light? It's like a dreamy state of mind. You can't not go.

I remember the emotion more than anything just like it was last week. And my heart aches for that excited moment when you looked up and you could barely contain yourself from squealing and running without abandon.

It hurts but it warms me on the inside all at once. Thanks for this beautiful picture. I've never seen it before. Whoever took this picture, the 8 year old wide-eyed dreamer of a little girl still hiding inside this middle aged gal sends her love and her thanks.

 

[George]

Oh my. I'm speechless. Let me get my tissues.

What always gets me (in part because my buddy Scott and I rode the danged thing so many times) are exterior shots of WoM with the ride vehicles.

 

[Figments Friend]

Oh my. I'm speechless. Let me get my tissues.

I know I remember being here and I saw this with my own eyes and I could describe to you all the placement, shapes, colors, layout, etc. but it's been so long. This particular perspective, I could describe it to you but even my minds eye doesn't connect all the pieces sometimes so I can truly "see" this the way the picture shows it. It's like a distant déjà vu that suddenly I know and my heart leaps & breaks all in the same moment.

You know what I forgot? I forgot how the colors and lines played with the eye. You're drawn upward into a dream, into the heavens above. Do you see it, the deep colors and shadows with the spire shapes in contrast leading you upward into the light? It's like a dreamy state of mind. You can't not go.

I remember the emotion more than anything just like it was last week. And my heart aches for that excited moment when you looked up and you could barely contain yourself from squealing and running without abandon.

It hurts but it warms me on the inside all at once. Thanks for this beautiful picture. I've never seen it before. Whoever took this picture, the 8 year old wide-eyed dreamer of a little girl still hiding inside this middle aged gal sends her love and her thanks.

Great post there sweetpee....you have a nice way with words.
A nice description of the overall vibe in there.

This photo has been around for years, as it was one of the earliest promotional photos used for the Pavilion.
As Martin pointed out, it was snapped during that slim time frame between the Pavilion itself being opened with the Park, but not the ride portion which opened a few months later.
I have seen several shots of the interior, but like this one the best as it captures most of the elements that were present in the main lower interior area.

Of course, seeing this in person was second to none.
I vividly recall being so impressed with this interior.
The colors in particular i found extremely appealing...as well as the swirling abstract art and that wonderful mural.

Of course, let us not forget the SCENT inside this area too....which a photo cannot capture in any sense.
The entire interior here smelled like roses...due to the scent being present in the 'Dreamport' segment of the Original ride through.
That 'perfume atomizer' located there that puffed out a cloud of 'rose' branded scent wafted all the way through the entire Pavilion it seemed.

Horizons may have been famous for it's 'Orange' scent, and SSE for 'Burning Rome'...but over at Imagination it was ALL about 'Rose'.
To this day when i smell that scent elsewhere, i immediately am reminded of this Pavilion.



Contrast and compare to today....where the current Imagination Pavilion, and it's ride, stinks.
Literally
As in 'skunk fart' scent.

Yeeaahh.....about that....

 

[jamesgf]

My first trip to EPCOT Center was in early 1984 when I was 11. I was in complete awe of the size and the theme of future world back then. The optimism of a better future really stuck with me, I think it shaped my interest in science leading me to pursue a scientific career (bioanalytical chemist). It's a shame the current state of future world won't have that type of effect on my daughter, as that theme has pretty much been ripped out of it. I realize things change over time, especially technologies, however I still feel the same theme could have been continued had the attractions been updated properly over the years instead if letting it deteriorate into the jumbled mess it is now. Don't get me wrong, I still really enjoy EPCOT, it just makes me sad to think of how great it once was, and how great it could be.

 

[DawnCt]

I still have my commemorative Epcot Tickets from 1983. It was an absolutely thrilling experience. There was no effort to reach down to children to educate and entertain. Children "reached up". I remember waiting in lines with excited guests, enjoying the UTC employees welcome center at The a Living Seas and the film The Deluge. One could easily spend an hour enjoying the exhibit. Now, with Nemo, the attraction has been completely dumbed down. Epcot needs to return to its original mission and not as an extended commercial for all of the Disney films and ventures. Soarin, which I have always loved, in a Disneyland and now at Epcot is a great attraction and the major draw in Future World. Is it too much ask that they replace or redo the film to remove the worn areas and visual flaws? There was a time, with minimal wait times, that Future a World could consume an entire day, and world showcase another. The "improvements" in Imagination cannot compete with the original Figment attraction. The Wonders of Life is now nothing more than a seasonal shopping mall. The Making of Me was a great film. We go to WDW nearly every year for the Food and Wine a Festival and it saddens me to say, Epcot is no longer in decline but approaching a free fall.

 

[Rambler]

My wife and I Epcot, but have noticed sewer odor around Mousegears. there was once a sense of majesty when we walked around with music and fountain that seems muted or absent. The wine and music, and the flower and garden fests spruce the place up and use empty spaces. We enjoy Food and Wine and the rides then, but feel the park is a little dingier and less sparkly than in previous visits. I feel this is a general observation of other parks and feel it is evidence of less quality of the overall presentation of WDW.
We have not given up yet. We plan our yearly fall trip for F and Wine and NSSHP and hope WDW does not disappoint.

 

[Rambler]

My previous post was to say My wife and I loved Epcot....

 

[Figments Friend]

There was no effort to reach down to children to educate and entertain. Children "reached up".

Ah yes...i like the way you put it there.
Quite true, and not just the kids...a LOT of young adults "reached up" too.

Thus why so many who had experienced EPCOT Center back in the day who were touched by that original bright vision have not lost sight of it, nor have forgotten it.
It burned a memory, a feeling, a idea, into them on a level deeper then the latest fad or tech gadget could.
It empowered and inspired a individual to further pursue the ideas presented in the various original attractions/shows long after they had exited the gates.
That was one of the core elements i would say of the original 'EPCOT' spirit from back then.
It delighted the senses as well as the intellect.

If only EPCOT today could better embody that spirit of yore.
There are ways, but perhaps society today has moved in a direction now where Guest Average will not appreciate such things?

"Cast not pearls before swine...lest they trample them under their feet...." and all that....

 

[Communicore]

The Land already screams 70's and early 80's, and that quite honestly detracts from the idea that we're focused on the future.

I dunno, I don't see any more 70's remnants inside which I really miss. The building itself and the entrance still seems 70 s.

 

[BoarderPhreak]

This is the oft-mentioned "dumbing down" of EPCOT Center into the Epcot of today. The suits wanted better attendance. "People don't want an education, they want thrill rides." So along came Mission: Space, Test Track, yada yada... Epcot might as well be renamed "Epc" as it ceased being about "tomorrow" a long time ago. Sad, really. As my experience as a young lad mirrors jamesgf's post above. The grand inspiration is no longer a theme.

 

[Omnispace]

I dunno, I don't see any more 70's remnants inside which I really miss. The building itself and the entrance still seems 70 s.

There was a lot of bad design in the 70's but there was also a lot of pretty awesome stuff. EPCOT Center did a really good job staying away from the late-70's "embellishments" and kept with the more clean, contemporary look. Remember, it was being developed during the Age of Disco so things could have been a lot worse!!

The Land has fared pretty well although the new design doesn't take full advantage of what made the original so successful. Some of the color selections should be re-evaluated. I suppose if they wanted to update the entrance they could replace the aluminum frame windows with frame-less panels. I would recommend to maintain the tile murals since they are truly unique and would be a shame to lose.

 

[JerseyDad]

My wife and I Epcot, but have noticed sewer odor around Mousegears. there was once a sense of majesty when we walked around with music and fountain that seems muted or absent. The wine and music, and the flower and garden fests spruce the place up and use empty spaces. We enjoy Food and Wine and the rides then, but feel the park is a little dingier and less sparkly than in previous visits. I feel this is a general observation of other parks and feel it is evidence of less quality of the overall presentation of WDW.
We have not given up yet. We plan our yearly fall trip for F and Wine and NSSHP and hope WDW does not disappoint.

....yeah ...what's up with the sewer gas smell? ...me thinks there is a broken main or clogged vent somewhere in the vicinity of that place.

 

[DawnCt]

I know it's not possible but I would love to see Epcot shut down for a year and completely restored, renovated and updated. What a grand reopen ing it could be.

 

[Ralphlaw]

Dumbing down is rampant in society in general. Go back to about 1965 to 1970, and even the dumb sitcoms made references to historical figures, for example. Shows like Batman had clever references to history and names in the news, like J Pauline Spaghetti and Mayor Linseed. And you can't go more than a few episodes of The Brady Bunch without hearing a reference to Benedict Arnold. Do kids today even know who Benedict Arnold was? Peabody and Sherman's Wayback machine had all kinds of historical references. Without Night at the Museum and Bill & Ted, many kids would be even more ignorant.

With that being said, I still think Epcot reaches up. My son loved Mission Space at the age of 6, and studied lots of engineering and space in the past 8 eight years in part because of it. They just can't seem to make science fun and accessible right now, but I think they could if they really tried.

 

[Omnispace]

This is the oft-mentioned "dumbing down" of EPCOT Center into the Epcot of today. The suits wanted better attendance. "People don't want an education, they want thrill rides." So along came Mission: Space, Test Track, yada yada... Epcot might as well be renamed "Epc" as it ceased being about "tomorrow" a long time ago. Sad, really. As my experience as a young lad mirrors jamesgf's post above. The grand inspiration is no longer a theme.

I have often wondered about the "dumbing down" of Epcot. If there was an intent to redirect the park into a different concept then one would think it would be pretty obvious. The place would be called "Disney's Discoveryland" or something equally lame. But the current mish-mash of attractions and ideas tells me that no one (who is making the big decisions) understands the place or has the talent to do a proper upgrade beyond changing a film to digital technology. It's a shame because it doesn't take that much effort to make something appeal to people on different levels and entertain them while embodying the educational goals of the original theme. We know it can be done because it was accomplished so successfully before.

 

[Communicore]

I know it's not possible but I would love to see Epcot shut down for a year and completely restored, renovated and updated. What a grand reopen ing it could be.

I would like to purchase Epcot and turn it back to EPCOT Center!

 

[Ralphlaw]

Thankfully, I don't think spaceship Earth has dumbed down. It's still a monumental structure, the ride tells a great story, there's an air of wonderment and mystery, and it has some cool hands-on features both during the descent and in the after show. I preferred Jeremy Irons over Judi Dench as a narrator, but oh well.

I think, for my kids, it provides a great trip though history and piques their interests at many levels. As an adult, I enjoy it as well, and feel a bit smarter once I'm done. If all of Epcot could do this, I don't think we'd be complaining.

And, in defense of Nemo, having a few things for the young kids is a good thing. Obviously a walking tunnel through the aquarium would be an obvious enhancement, but there must be some reason that it didn't happen . . . yet.

 

[BobConnor]

Spaceship Earth is what I think is the most intelligent ride with a lot of detail in Epcot now. But please, please, get another narrator!. That woman's voice makes my skin crawl!

Oh, and I can't even understand the Nemo ride, it is gibberish