Eddie Sotto's take on the current state of the parks

[Buried20KLeague]

Here goes! One big reason I took on running design and planning for TDL as a portfolio because it is so well maintained. The downside is that it's far away and the company does not pay much attention to it, but the upside is that the show you produce looks like opening day FOREVER. To me this is huge. I had negative experiences with getting things fixed in DL so it does get frustrating. Back in the 90's they just didn't have the budget to be that meticulous in Anaheim. There was pressure for 20% increases every quarter so it had to come from somewhere. Things are better now for sure. The 50th $$$ rehab of the park did wonders.

It is true that the show designer may see something amiss and suggest that it get fixed and they may try and deal with it. But overall, there is a WDI Show quality staff that sees those things before he does and lists them for the maintenance group. Sometimes they can't be addressed until the show goes down for a yearly rehab because they require a big demolition or it keep breaking down enough for them to redesign the effect. the operators note and submit these things too. Back in my day, sometimes they would sit on a list for along time till the $$ or the labor could catch up with them.

The SQS group down there is so passionate about this that they have even gone in one their own design hours to repaint dinosaurs, etc. to make the shows better. Tony is engaged as well to use rehab dollars to improve the shows rather than to just repaint them. It's taken very seriously, and I'm sure is better today than when I was involved a decade ago.

Interesting.

So do you or anyone else you know refuse to work on a project, then, because you're worried it won't be kept up... Potentially making it seem like a black mark against YOU?

Or do you not think that way because the vast majority of people have no idea who actually designed an attraction anyhow?

It's almost too bad that there isn't a way to put a "service level agreement" contract in place before something gets designed and built. You know... Like "if you want Eddie Sotto to design something for you, then you're going to have to know it comes with these maintenance requirements".

And in a perfect world, every day would be Christmas. :lookaroun:lol:

 

[kcnole]

So yes, it's an issue for a designer. Having said all that, the best way to avoid this is to design things that anticipate their own maintenance. Don't put things in reach guests can steal or destroy. Try and use common sense when you design things that will be easy to fix or maintain themselves. Some effects are permanently off because they are too hard to maintain. Don't have your show depend on one effect to work for the guest or you're dead. The "Ice Machine" that dropped falling debris in Indy was off most of the time but guests didn't notice. that's why the Yeti working in EE is so important, it's the star of the show. So try and not demand it do so much that it tears itself apart for example. Guests do notice that.

I've noticed major problems with guests as well. Toy Story Mania's queue in DHS is already being destroyed in places as guests continually peel paint off the walls, and its sad to say, but the hallways of Space Mountain have already been vandalized. It was reported last week that major pieces of paint had already been peeled off one of the walls. I just don't understand guests desire to destroy everything you all worked so hard on.

 

[Eddie Sotto]

Interesting.

So do you or anyone else you know refuse to work on a project, then, because you're worried it won't be kept up... Potentially making it seem like a black mark against YOU?

Or do you not think that way because the vast majority of people have no idea who actually designed an attraction anyhow?

It's almost too bad that there isn't a way to put a "service level agreement" contract in place before something gets designed and built. You know... Like "if you want Eddie Sotto to design something for you, then you're going to have to know it comes with these maintenance requirements".

And in a perfect world, every day would be Christmas. :lookaroun:lol:

I just want to be clear on something when it comes to maintenance. Safety of the guest is the first concern and that is where the priority has to be. So if the ice machine isn't dropping debris or a black light burns out in Peter Pan, it's because they have to be on top of preventive safety measures first, as it should be. We all get that and agree with that mission. I don't know of anyone that refused to work on a project for this reason as going in it should not be an issue. The expectation is that the design and operator work together to design a show that can open and run consistently and it's both of their jobs to do so. Early on, the TDL "Winnie the Pooh" was a nightmare to keep running, as the ride system was so new it kept breaking down till it could be reprogrammed. So was I being unrealistic by stretching the technical limits too far? Was the software bad? It was a big reason the show was a hit, so we were all committed. We all bought into doing it, so we all in the game together. It's hard to point fingers, but the team hung tough and got it ironed out and now they have a reliable ride.

 

[Eddie Sotto]

I've noticed major problems with guests as well. Toy Story Mania's queue in DHS is already being destroyed in places as guests continually peel paint off the walls, and its sad to say, but the hallways of Space Mountain have already been vandalized. It was reported last week that major pieces of paint had already been peeled off one of the walls. I just don't understand guests desire to destroy everything you all worked so hard on.

This usually happens when you put people in places where they either stack up, do not move fast, or have nothing to watch or engage them. They get antsy and pick the walls. Both queues cited have this issue.

 

[b94ronman]

Eddie-

have you ever looked at an attraction that you thought was incredible (whether you were apart of the developement or not) and then after a rehab, thought to yourself "what did they do to this?" (Journey into imagination comes to my mind) or one that you thought the rehab was dead on and very much added life to an old attraction? (maybe The Living Seas or Pirates of the Caribbean - not that I think these were dead - just an example)

 

[Eddie Sotto]

Eddie-

have you ever looked at an attraction that you thought was incredible (whether you were apart of the developement or not) and then after a rehab, thought to yourself "what did they do to this?" (Journey into imagination comes to my mind) or one that you thought the rehab was dead on and very much added life to an old attraction? (maybe The Living Seas or Pirates of the Caribbean - not that I think these were dead - just an example)

I woulds say that Space Mountain in DL was always a Classic, but the recent rehab addressed many old issues, like light leakage to great advantage. I think it's fantastic now and still has the magic of the original, only it delivers.

 

[hack2112]

I woulds say that Space Mountain in DL was always a Classic, but the recent rehab addressed many old issues, like light leakage to great advantage. I think it's fantastic now and still has the magic of the original, only it delivers.

Like the UPS man

/Legally Blonde reference

 

[WDW1974]

Forgot about that! If you wanna really make money, it's having stuff like Fantasia Ice Cream that are musts every time you go (Dole Whip will have to do till then). Just ask the people that sell Dodger Dogs.

Yep. 'Nother great example.

When you were having a cone of Fantasia, you could close your eyes. You knew there was only one place on earth you could be.

I'm trying to recall a similar WDW food item ... the one thing that comes to mind, believe it or not, was their homeade Italian salad dressing that was served across property from the 1970s until the late 80s. I loved that stuff. Discoved one place (Trail's End at FW) still used the stuff into the early 90s, but then it left.

Also, miss the Monte Christos at the old Town Square Cafe. ... And the frozen OJ at the snack bar next to Tiki Room that was served when the FLA Citrus Growers sponsored.

But now there are very few things that you can chow down or gulp down at WDW and say 'this is the only place I can get this'.

Oh, and I never did have that pumpkin spiced latte at Starbucks today. Wound up having a regular iced latte at Dunkin Donuts instead (since I know you and everyone else was wondering!):ROFLOL::xmas::ROFLOL:

 

[Eddie Sotto]

I've noticed major problems with guests as well. Toy Story Mania's queue in DHS is already being destroyed in places as guests continually peel paint off the walls, and its sad to say, but the hallways of Space Mountain have already been vandalized. It was reported last week that major pieces of paint had already been peeled off one of the walls. I just don't understand guests desire to destroy everything you all worked so hard on.

The other thing is if guests see it being peeled, then they join in. Once someone has already done it, it's open season! That's why you have to get those things like "tagging" down asap.

 

[kcnole]

The idea of the Halloween holiday layovers was mentioned in a thread on another forum recently. The main one being discussed was Haunted Mansion Holiday which works well mainly because it can easily incorporate two seasons. Someone mentioned the possibility of doing a Haunted Jungle Cruise attraction instead of HMH.

I was trying to think how something like that might work. I'm curious if you were tasked with developing a show like that what type of things could be done with that ride system and so much relying on the skipper to make it work. Also would it be something that would possibly even work even though it only ties into the Halloween season which passes quickly versus HMH, which ties into both Halloween and Christmas?

 

[WDW1974]

I have no problem with bringing a Starbucks in as I don't think its really that different from any other corporate sponsorship that Disney has always done. Of course, they'd need to go with one of these not starbucks starbucks. Don't name it starbucks, give it some special name and theme and maybe just put a sponored by "Starbucks" tag somewhere like they've always done.

I do agree about the names of their drinks, I wonder if there is some compromise that could be worked to give them more thematically correct names.

I doubt VERY much that you'll have a clue it is Starbucks beyond the coffee. I'd think more like Casey's Corner and Coke. They serve Coke. But that's it.

I would think it will largely be a sponsorship/supply deal. The Market House will simply serve Starbucks coffee products. And I doubt they'll go with anything but 'normal' small/large sizes. :xmas:

 

[kcnole]

I'm trying to recall a similar WDW food item ... the one thing that comes to mind, believe it or not, was their homeade Italian salad dressing that was served across property from the 1970s until the late 80s. I loved that stuff. Discoved one place (Trail's End at FW) still used the stuff into the early 90s, but then it left.

The only thing I could think of that most people associated as Disney only outside of the Dole Whips were the Figaro Fries. Certainly they could be made elsewhere but I've never seen them. Personally I thought they were awful so I don't miss that they're gone, but I know a number who do.

The other thing is if guests see it being peeled, then they join in. Once someone has already done it, it's open season! That's why you have to get those things like "tagging" down asap.

Reminds me of the old King Kong Que at Universal Orlando that had the graffiti on the subway walls where guests felt they should add their own tags as well.

 

[WDW1974]

Here goes! One big reason I took on running design and planning for TDL as a portfolio because it is so well maintained. The downside is that it's far away and the company does not pay much attention to it, but the upside is that the show you produce looks like opening day FOREVER.

I just had to break up your thought because I think that is such a key and something that folks who visit TDL routinely point out. It's something that once was the case in every Disney park, but sadly not anymore.

On another note, I'd say it's probably a good thing that TWDC lets OLC manage the way it does. I'd hate to see some of the practices of the last 15 years from the USA find their way to Tokyo.

To me this is huge. I had negative experiences with getting things fixed in DL so it does get frustrating. Back in the 90's they just didn't have the budget to be that meticulous in Anaheim. There was pressure for 20% increases every quarter so it had to come from somewhere. Things are better now for sure. The 50th $$$ rehab of the park did wonders.

You can say that again. I can only imagine how disheartening it must have been for Imagineers to watch the place decay. Sadly, that has happened at every non-OLC owned/operated Disney park to some degree.

DLP was in godawful shape infrastructure-wise (show quality was still very high) from about 2001-2006 when they began massive work for the 15th Anniversary.

It is true that the show designer may see something amiss and suggest that it get fixed and they may try and deal with it. But overall, there is a WDI Show Quality staff that sees those things before he does, and lists them for the maintenance group. Sometimes they can't be addressed until the show goes down for a yearly rehab or it breaks down enough for them to have to start over back at WDI and just redesign the effect. The operators note and submit these things too. Back in my day, sometimes the items would sit on a list for a long time till the $$ or the labor could catch up with them. The desire was there, the manpower or budget was not and they stretched to get things done back then too. There are reviews we would do of each attraction prior to it's rehab so we caught everything.

The SQS group down there is so passionate about this that they have even used their own design hours to repaint dinosaurs to their accurate colors, etc. to make the shows better. Tony was engaged as well to use rehab dollars to improve the shows rather than to just repaint them. It's taken very seriously, and I'm sure is better today than when I was involved a decade ago.

So yes, it's an issue for a designer. Having said all that, the best way to avoid this is to design things that anticipate their own maintenance. Don't put things in reach guests can steal or destroy. Try and use common sense when you design things that will be easy to fix or maintain themselves. Some effects are permanently off because they are too hard to maintain. Don't have your show depend on one effect to work for the guest or you're dead. The "Ice Machine" that dropped falling debris in Indy was off most of the time but guests didn't notice. that's why the Yeti working in EE is so important, it's the star of the show. So try and not demand it do so much that it tears itself apart for example. Guests do notice that.

Great post and insight, Eddie! Thanks! :xmas:

 

[WDW1974]

Quote:
Originally Posted by kcnole
I've noticed major problems with guests as well. Toy Story Mania's queue in DHS is already being destroyed in places as guests continually peel paint off the walls, and its sad to say, but the hallways of Space Mountain have already been vandalized. It was reported last week that major pieces of paint had already been peeled off one of the walls. I just don't understand guests desire to destroy everything you all worked so hard on.

The other thing is if guests see it being peeled, then they join in. Once someone has already done it, it's open season! That's why you have to get those things like "tagging" down asap.

So true. And a basic tenet of Walt's philosophy on keeping DL looking pristine.

One bit of graffiti causes a second. One piece of trash lying on the ground causes another piece to be carelessly tossed. One piece of gum stuck to a wall in Splash Mountain or under a bridge on PoC leads to more.

You just can't leave things because if a few folks think it's OK to be pigs, then others will follow. Simple herd mentality of the human condition.

The worst I have seen of this at WDW would easily be TSMM where the place is pulled apart on a daily basis. The walls clearly are a huge problem.

And at DLP, I took some photos of how the entire baby blue queue wall of Peter Pan's Flight were coated in graffiti, much of it obscene ... and dated back to early August (I was there the second week of September).

Situations like that simply shouldn't ever be allowed to get that bad. I don't care if people have to repaint nightly. The DLP wall made me think that if D-I-C-K Nunis had still been running Parks and Resorts his head would have just blown up big and red and then 'sploded like a tomato in a microwave.

That type of 'tude is lacking in the parks' leaders these days. They don't get that some things are simply unacceptable. Period. No thought about cost. :xmas:

 

[HMF]

Quote:
One bit of graffiti causes a second.

Post under construction.

 

[Eddie Sotto]

cone food!!!

Who remembers WDW Cone food? Served under the Rocket Jets by Wise.

 

[WDW1974]

Who remembers WDW Cone food? Served under the Rocket Jets by Wise.

Ah ... you mean the Disney Handwich!

Served only in two places ... that snack bar you mentioned and at the food court in the Land. :xmas:

 

[Eddie Sotto]

Ah ... you mean the Disney Handwich!

Served only in two places ... that snack bar you mentioned and at the food court in the Land. :xmas:

YES!!!! It was developed at WDI as a project called cone food.

 

[RSoxNo1]

Who remembers WDW Cone food? Served under the Rocket Jets by Wise.

DCA is having a quick service location in Carsland where everything is "cone themed"

 

[wserratore1963]

The Handwhich, The Dole Whip & the Turkey Leg were the official eats of many of our trips to the parks.
Well 2 out 3 aint bad