Eddie Sotto
Premium Member
When in TDL you must try honey flavored popcorn, across from Pooh.
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Eddie Sotto's take on the current state of the parks
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When in TDL you must try honey flavored popcorn, across from Pooh.
BigThunderMatt
Well-Known Member
Not to mention the curry popcorn and the chocolate popcorn! Get the souvenir bucket and refills are only 500 yen.
FantasyPurveyor
New Member
Ramblings
I can never understand why the parks AREN'T painted nightly. Paint is cheap! Refurbs are expensive! Maybe the next time I'm at a park, if I see something like the DLP wall, I will ask for the attractions manager and ask them point blank, "Why hasn't this been taken care of?" CM's are supposed to walk their areas daily anyway. Sure, the "human condition" in this day and age naturally gravitates towards lazy slop, but that's what STRONG LEADERSHIP is for.
Loved the idea about the Walt Disney Pictures hybrid castle being a park in itself. More thinking like that is needed IMO. What other "castle" ideas could there be?
It may just be me, but does anyone else think the conventional theme park is ripe for innovation? Sure there have been many aborted attempts-- Rhode's 5th gate, Location Based Entertainment "parks", etc., but at what point does the 1955 Disneyland model become obsolete? Will it ever? Has it already?
I do think focus has been lost on UNIQUE experiences in many aspects of the Disney theme park experience. The attractions are still unique for the most part. It's the other areas that are becoming lacking. The seas of $5.00 t-shirts in every single Main Street shop. The standardization of restaurant menus across property (no prime rib!). The all too common corporate mentality of price-gouging when able to ($14 for parking?!?!?). As it stands, there is no restaurant that makes me want to go back at WDW. There is no merchandise shop that makes me want to go back to at WDW. There are a few rides that will keep me coming back, but barely. It is much too close to the edge...
I can never understand why the parks AREN'T painted nightly. Paint is cheap! Refurbs are expensive! Maybe the next time I'm at a park, if I see something like the DLP wall, I will ask for the attractions manager and ask them point blank, "Why hasn't this been taken care of?" CM's are supposed to walk their areas daily anyway. Sure, the "human condition" in this day and age naturally gravitates towards lazy slop, but that's what STRONG LEADERSHIP is for.
Loved the idea about the Walt Disney Pictures hybrid castle being a park in itself. More thinking like that is needed IMO. What other "castle" ideas could there be?
It may just be me, but does anyone else think the conventional theme park is ripe for innovation? Sure there have been many aborted attempts-- Rhode's 5th gate, Location Based Entertainment "parks", etc., but at what point does the 1955 Disneyland model become obsolete? Will it ever? Has it already?
I do think focus has been lost on UNIQUE experiences in many aspects of the Disney theme park experience. The attractions are still unique for the most part. It's the other areas that are becoming lacking. The seas of $5.00 t-shirts in every single Main Street shop. The standardization of restaurant menus across property (no prime rib!). The all too common corporate mentality of price-gouging when able to ($14 for parking?!?!?). As it stands, there is no restaurant that makes me want to go back at WDW. There is no merchandise shop that makes me want to go back to at WDW. There are a few rides that will keep me coming back, but barely. It is much too close to the edge...
Eddie Sotto
Premium Member
As a perspective...It was explained to me once that even at it's highest price points you still amazing value in a disney park for a day of entertainment, especially compared per hour to a movie or other singular experiences. Fireworks, parades, 30 rides, live shows, a parklike environment and more. County fairs get 5 bucks or more for a single generic ride, at WDW each ride on average is worth tens of millions. Broadway Shows are 100 bucks, but you can see several in the park that are not much less in their impact as part of admission. It's the whole experience that still brings people back. BTW- I'm not making excuses for "resting on your laurels" or over merchandising either, as you always have to be moving forward and delivering more. But for me, WDW or DL is still an amazing deal for what you get.
_Scar
Active Member
FantasyPurveyor
New Member
I don't dispute that at all. It's what keeps me coming back to the parks as opposed to spending my entertainment dollars elsewhere. It's the curse and blessing of Disney... that we expect so much-- which is good! It means we care and want to see improvement rather than pulling up the stakes and going to a competitor (in any line of business).
Eddie Sotto
Premium Member
Understood.
Eddie Sotto
Premium Member
BTW- Al Lutz has an interesting article at Miceage about how DL is close to hitting a million APs. If they go an average of ten times a year, that means the park could hit close to ten million guests just from AP's!! They all show up on the days the park is not blocked out in the offseason, wiping out the infrastructure, leaving the rest of the park comfy and quiet during blockouts. Just the opposite of the past. Annual passholders are a different breed and especially when they are the new majority. Interesting read as the park faces new challenges in both operation and show.
What you say?
What you say?
TP2000
Well-Known Member
I've seen it with my own eyes. The park has changed dramatically in the last 3 years, and compared to 10 years ago and what I remember from the latter decades of the 20th century, it's like night and day.
And as an Annual Passholder, I can honestly say it is for the worst. The recent Al Lutz articles (he also had one just on parking a month or two ago) on this issue hit the nail right on the head. I live in Villa Park, about 20 minutes from Disneyland, and the experience of just getting a parking spot and in to Main Street USA has become a total nightmare in the last year.
And once you get into the park? Forget about it if it's a Friday evening, a Sunday, or any of the days that lead up to a major blockout for the SoCal Select, SoCal, or Deluxe passes. They've got to do something, and the only resonse would seem to be increasing the prices quickly.
I said this on another board, but it is my opinion that the majority of us AP's are now using Disneyland wrong. It wasn't designed by Walt and his 20th century Imagineers to be a community center you drop in on for a few hours a dozen times per year. And the reworked "Disneyland Resort" of 1999-2001 also wasn't designed for this demographic, outside of date nighters going to Downtown Disney on Saturday nights. Disneyland and DCA and the overall Resort infrastructure wasn't designed to handle this type of workload and use, and the majority of us Passholders are simply doing it wrong when it comes to doing Disneyland.
I would be scared to see them try to recreate this scenario for WDW. Although I don't think they could get to the same level simply due to the population base of SoCal. There are 20 Million people in the five county area that is 90 freeway minutes from Disneyland, and Central Florida just can't recreate thost numbers.
But God help them if WDW tries to pump up their AP numbers by hundreds of thousands.
Eddie Sotto
Premium Member
It feels really strange to live in a state that is experiencing double digit unemployment with streets of vacant businesses, and you have to fight your way into this expensive theme park full of the rafters with locals! You look around in shock. Except that they all got in free. I'm fascinated by the new use patterns of the whole thing. You point it all out very well. It's true that the park was not really designed for this kind of usage, but it will have to evolve unless they change their policies. Interesting to see what happens.
DisneyMusician2
Well-Known Member
Isn't it just this influx that has kept DL at what many consider to be a superior level as far as attraction maintenance and technology? DL always seems to get updates and the best overlays first, while WDW is still guessing at the fate of SSE's descent. If you didn't sell so many AP's at DL, this might not be the case anymore.
DL must simply evolve to accommodate the crowds, or perhaps change the way their blackouts are structured to decrease the immediate impact beforehand. When sales of an AP are going so well, raising the price to discourage them seems the wrong move from a business perspective.
MarkTwain
Well-Known Member
Speaking of fresh ideas for a theme park - check out this recent Disneyandmore article about a proposed floating theme park, the S. S. Disney.
I have to say this idea sounds absolutely crazy... although admittedly in a way Disneyland and Snow White may have sounded crazy when they were announced. :animwink: It would definitely bring a whole new meaning to "location-based enterainment," but I would bet the final product would be fraught with logistical problems - lack of room, inflexibility in entertainment options, and inability to change or expand being among them.
Hmm... the article says this was in development from 1993-1994. You wouldn't happen to know anything about this, would you Eddie? :xmas:
misterID
Well-Known Member
It seems locals are very different (and treated differently) in Cali than Orlando. Maybe they embrace Disneyland differently than Floridian's. Disneyland has always seemed to belong to the locals. That's not the feeling of the World. At least not anymore. I think the location and the constant upgrading of Disneyland, and most importantly the poeple who run it, makes it a different animal. They don't seem to practice the same philosophy. Plus, you always have to stay on your toes when catering to locals. The World doesn't have to do that; or at least they think that way, but it isn't true.
But if the Disneyland Annual Passholders ARE your central customers, then they're just going to have to get rid of the blackout days. You'd think they end up making more money just on the fact that most passholders know when to go, like off season spells, but they could also have the luxury of going anytime they want also. It seems they just don't have to depend on the tourists anymore. Which is good for disneyland AP holders.
But if the Disneyland Annual Passholders ARE your central customers, then they're just going to have to get rid of the blackout days. You'd think they end up making more money just on the fact that most passholders know when to go, like off season spells, but they could also have the luxury of going anytime they want also. It seems they just don't have to depend on the tourists anymore. Which is good for disneyland AP holders.
BigThunderMatt
Well-Known Member
^
The one thing I noticed when I worked in DLR was that APs were much more demanding (and oftentimes ruder) than your typical guests. Compared to even the most fervent WDW regular, APs at DLR just seem hell-bent on having things the way they want and they'll rant and scream and shout if they don't get it.
We had a nickname for APs when I worked at DLR: we called them PDRs because when you take the P, the D, and the R out of Passholder, what do you get?
The one thing I noticed when I worked in DLR was that APs were much more demanding (and oftentimes ruder) than your typical guests. Compared to even the most fervent WDW regular, APs at DLR just seem hell-bent on having things the way they want and they'll rant and scream and shout if they don't get it.
We had a nickname for APs when I worked at DLR: we called them PDRs because when you take the P, the D, and the R out of Passholder, what do you get?
misterID
Well-Known Member
Haha I bet. It's a much different experience being an annual passholder than being someone who goes once or twice a year, or even once every 2 years.
And fwiw my family was in the tourism business for most of my life and I can tell you tourists aren't the nicest bunch of people either. Except the Brits. They were always nice.
Eddie Sotto
Premium Member
I do, but the recollection is a bit hazy. I think the reason it did not go further is because there are huge issues with the various ports themselves being functionally hospitable to the huge draw of a Disneyland docking in foreign cultures. A logistical Juggernaut. The other thing is the down time you lose at sea and it's cost to move from place to place with little return. You have to remarket the entire project to a different culture every time you land, etc. $$$$. Maintenance at sea is huge with the erosive aspects of sea air, etc. Lots to think about. The WDC was not set up for this level of risk and fiscal adventure. The closest we'll likely get to this is a water coaster on the Disney Cruise ships. They are the best compromise and maybe they will evolve in that visionary direction.
Eddie Sotto
Premium Member
TDL is primarily fed by it's local Tokyo and it's upkeep is the best in the system. Good point. We'll have to see how they handle this.
Eddie Sotto
Premium Member
Wow. Of course, losing blackouts would justify big price increases that would suddenly change the game again. I'm sure they've tested the limits in surveys of what people would or would not pay. Maybe they are at that point now? Interesting discussion.
Eddie Sotto
Premium Member
Porsche Owner? I'm not good at spellchecking.
Eddie Sotto
Premium Member
Walt as an antiSemite
Here's a nice interview with the guy who runs the Disney Museum. He addresses some of these things that were brought up a few pages ago. Quick read.
http://micechat.com/forums/walt-dis...hard-benefield-walt-disney-family-museum.html
I'm posting from Virgin America's free wifi from Google! At 35k feet!
Here's a nice interview with the guy who runs the Disney Museum. He addresses some of these things that were brought up a few pages ago. Quick read.
http://micechat.com/forums/walt-dis...hard-benefield-walt-disney-family-museum.html
I'm posting from Virgin America's free wifi from Google! At 35k feet!
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