Do you think that Disney world will reclose its gates due to the rising number of COVID cases in Florida and around the country?

[DisneyCane]

At some point, all you can do is look at an opinion and shake your head. The towering arrogance and selfishness of assuming that you can judge the value of a life, that you can tell others what the real quality of their existence is. Historically, such beliefs have ALWAYS led to good outcomes. I suspect you would have a very different opinion if folks wanted to put a value on your quality of life and the lives of those you love. I suspect you would get quite upset indeed.

It’s worth remembering which posters saw fit to like this post.

Pot meet kettle. I (and many others) look at your opinion and shake their head.

My opinion has always been that every individual can make their own decisions. If you want to quarantine at home until there's no risk of catching this virus then go ahead. If you want to close your business because you think it is the right thing to do then go ahead. If you live in a household with a vulnerable person then either stay isolated from them or stay isolated yourself.

However, don't force a business to close. Don't tell me I can't leave my property unless I am doing something essential (which was an order in Broward County).

My parents are both in the vulnerable population. Guess what, I have only seen them outdoors from 15+ feet away since mid March.

I'm telling you what I value in my life. You can value whatever you want to value. It's not "arrogant" but I won't argue that it is "selfish" in a way (but so is your way). I am quite upset that people like you don't value my quality of life. I'm more upset that the "powers that be" don't value it and implemented the measures that they did.

Well, the science disagrees with you. ANY face covering will reduce transmission. Even a shoddy face covering that is only 20% effective, is still 20% effective.
Anything that reduces viral spread is not "pointless."

Still Confused About Masks? Hereâs the Science Behind How Face Masks Prevent Coronavirus

We talked to UCSF epidemiologist George Rutherford, MD, and infectious disease specialist Peter Chin-Hong, MD, about the CDC’s reversal on mask-wearing, the current science on how masks work, and what to consider when choosing a mask.

www.ucsf.edu

The Real Reason to Wear a Mask

Much of the confusion around masks stems from the conflation of two very different uses.

www.theatlantic.com

First, "The Atlantic" is not a source I respect. It would be like posting a report from OAN on the other side of the argument. With regards to the UCSF article, part of it makes my point. It says early on "that nearly all these droplets were blocked when the mouth was covered by a damp washcloth" when discussing droplets produced by speech. This is a specific fabric in a specific condition. I'm sure that there are fabrics that, if worn properly, would make some difference.

However, the mandates aren't for something specific, the mandates are just to wear something over your nose and mouth. There's a good chance that it makes the situation worse because people don't socially distance because they think the "mask" is providing protection.

As for looking at case growth data, there are too many variables in play to be able to correlate specific observations to mask requirements. I could analyze the data from South Dakota and conclude that masks are unnecessary. The South Dakota daily case curve has been flat for two months and pretty much nobody wears a mask there unless in a business that requires them like Costco. This is true even in the densely populated areas like Rapid City and Sioux Falls.

 

[The Mom]

Some posters are getting a bit heated and tossing around insults/snide remarks, etc, or continue to ignore the no politics rule, so have been given a time out. So please don't all send me PMs asking why you're in "Disney Jail."

 

[havoc315]

They probably shouldn’t have lied to us early on when they said masks were ineffective and not to use them. And no, I’m not buying that it took time for them to figure out they were. Whatever their motivations were (saving enough masks for medical personnel maybe), this is a good way to lose credibility from the get go.

No, it's nothing that nefarious.

The main original advice was "mask wearing will not effectively protect the mask wearer" - -- And that remains true. (And when you read deep into all the guidance that came out early, there was acknowledgement that masking wearing would protect others.)

It was a combination of factors that led to government agencies not recommending mask wearing sooner:

1 -- The prevalence of the infection was underestimated. Masks were considered a potential overreaction when we thought the infection rate in the US was more like 00.0001%. I remember when New Rochelle, NY (I live nearby) was put on lockdown because a few cases were discovered. In retrospect, we realized there were already thousands of cases in the vicinity.
2 -- There was concern about masks providing a false sense of security. A belief that if you wore a mask, it would protect you. So a fear that a person would put on a mask, then go to a social gathering with lots of unmasked individuals, and think they were safe. Or think they wouldn't have to take any other precautions as long as they were wearing a mask.
3--- There was a concern that culturally, Americans just wouldn't follow masking advice. And masking is NOT very effective, unless it is widely adopted. If 5% of people are wearing homemade masks, it really would do very very little to curtail the spread. (and as per #2, might give those 5% of mask wearers a false sense of security)
4-- There was a very real concern that masking recommendations would cause people to horde medical-grade masks, at a time when PPE was in EXTREMELY short supply.

Ultimately though, we got mixed advice on masking because the government agencies underestimated the ability of Americans to understand a relatively complex picture: "Yes mask, but don't horde medical masks. And when you wear a mask, you still must take other precautions. And wearing a mask doesn't really protect you very much, but it protects everyone else. So understanding that, is why you should wear masks."

That said -- the CDC began recommending masks on April 3rd. I think our memory distorts time with all this craziness. Let's remember that the pandemic only "hit" the US in mid/late March. So it was within 2-3 weeks that mask wearing became recommended. And jurisdictions started mandating masks shortly thereafter. So it was only a very brief period where masks weren't being recommended.

 

[Andrew C]

It’s selfish to believe you have suffered enough that you now deserve to live normal again even when you doing so is causing harm to your fellow man I’m sorry.

We can all make determinations as to what we think is selfish or not. But, maybe not so helpful.

 

[havoc315]

First, "The Atlantic" is not a source I respect. It would be like posting a report from OAN on the other side of the argument. With regards to the UCSF article, part of it makes my point. It says early on "that nearly all these droplets were blocked when the mouth was covered by a damp washcloth" when discussing droplets produced by speech. This is a specific fabric in a specific condition. I'm sure that there are fabrics that, if worn properly, would make some difference.

However, the mandates aren't for something specific, the mandates are just to wear something over your nose and mouth. There's a good chance that it makes the situation worse because people don't socially distance because they think the "mask" is providing protection.

"A recent study published in Health Affairs, for example, compared the COVID-19 growth rate before and after mask mandates in 15 states and the District of Columbia. It found that mask mandates led to a slowdown in daily COVID-19 growth rate, which became more apparent over time. The first five days after a mandate, the daily growth rate slowed by 0.9 percentage-points compared to the five days prior to the mandate; at three weeks, the daily growth rate had slowed by 2 percentage-points. "

As for looking at case growth data, there are too many variables in play to be able to correlate specific observations to mask requirements. I could analyze the data from South Dakota and conclude that masks are unnecessary. The South Dakota daily case curve has been flat for two months and pretty much nobody wears a mask there unless in a business that requires them like Costco. This is true even in the densely populated areas like Rapid City and Sioux Falls.

You're confusing "not hit yet" with evidence of safety. Obviously, even in Rapid City and Sioux Falls, density is much lighter in SD than other urban areas.

If anything, compare SD to Oklahoma. You could have made the exact same statement about Oklahoma in mid June...
June 15: "The Oklahoma daily case curve has been flat for 2 months and nobody wears a mask"...
But then what happened:

We had similar thinking in late April and early May in areas in the South and West. "It's May 1st... our case counts have been consistently low, unlike New York... we can safely re-open.. we don't need things like masks!"

South Dakota, with it's overall very low population density, might get lucky and escape major spread. But it would be more an effect of luck than "masks aren't necessary."

 

[carolina_yankee]

Pot meet kettle. I (and many others) look at your opinion and shake their head.

My opinion has always been that every individual can make their own decisions. If you want to quarantine at home until there's no risk of catching this virus then go ahead. If you want to close your business because you think it is the right thing to do then go ahead. If you live in a household with a vulnerable person then either stay isolated from them or stay isolated yourself.

However, don't force a business to close. Don't tell me I can't leave my property unless I am doing something essential (which was an order in Broward County).

My parents are both in the vulnerable population. Guess what, I have only seen them outdoors from 15+ feet away since mid March.

I'm telling you what I value in my life. You can value whatever you want to value. It's not "arrogant" but I won't argue that it is "selfish" in a way (but so is your way). I am quite upset that people like you don't value my quality of life. I'm more upset that the "powers that be" don't value it and implemented the measures that they did.

The problem is that it’s not possible to manage a pandemic by leaving it to people to do things themselves.

It sucks. All the way around. This cost of this pandemic in lives and economics is going to be horrific if it isn’t already. There is no way some people can lead normal lives as this affects everybody.

 

[lazyboy97o]

My opinion has always been that every individual can make their own decisions.

Individuals don’t chosen if they spread the virus. Individuals don’t chose to whom they spread the virus.

 

[havoc315]

Must be something in the water...I recently started a cover-to-cover rewatch of DS9 as well. I'm in the middle of Season 2. Great show.

It's a great show. My favorite Star Trek, BY FAR.

But all this praise for it is making we want to play Devil's Advocate.

So here is my DS9 nitpick: All the fight scenes where a two-handed punch to the back immediately renders the bad guys totally unconscious!
Horde of attacking Klingons with swords? One little punch routinely disables each one completely. Genetically engineered Jem Hadar soldiers? Guess they have a secret weakness of getting knocked unconscious by a quick two-handed punch.

Apparently, I'm not the only one nitpicking the two-handed punch.. often used by Kira Nyres:

How the 'Star Trek' Punch Became the Worst Fight Move on TV

And yet, it's totally iconic.

www.vice.com

 

[Disstevefan1]

There are travelers all across the US jumping off the Florida travel train everyday the spike in Florida and the booboo faces from Tallahassee is blasted everywhere. It’s even on Fox

It’s not about public policy...travel is non-essential and disposable income. People have to WANT To go there.

I think there’s this illusion that there’s an army of APs and DVC to make Disney money if they want it. That isn’t close to reality. You can’t take 50,000,000 gate clicks down to 20,000,000 and clean profits. That’s insane.

But I don’t have to preach this. Disney knows...that’s the only “opinion” that will matter.

The 1.5 million a day from the NBA helps Disney’s botton line, that’s for sure.

 

[Disstevefan1]

Can we shift to re-closure speculation?

Ha! That would be fun! OK, I will take the bait, there will be NO RE-CLOSURE

 

[oceanbreeze77]

High number of positives, much lower positivity rate (albeit still high), 435 hospitalizations

 

[DisneyCane]

Individuals don’t chosen if they spread the virus. Individuals don’t chose to whom they spread the virus.

Individuals can choose what they want to do to prevent themselves from getting the virus. If you choose to stay at home then I can't spread it to you even if I have it. As an aside, based on the disease prevalence studies done in the large outbreak areas there is a pretty low chance I have it to spread it to somebody else. Even with these huge numbers, not that high of a percentage of the population has ever been infected. A very small percentage of the population is contagious at any given time.

 

[Touchdown]

Also no one can fully protect themselves from getting the virus. Even if you do everything right it can still happen.

 

[DisneyCane]

High number of positives, much lower positivity rate (albeit still high), 435 hospitalizations
View attachment 482605

That data indicates results for 89,294 new people tested yesterday. I think that should quell the fear of reducing testing to show fewer "cases."

I'm pleasantly surprised that tens of thousands of asymptomatic people are willing to go through the hassle and discomfort of getting tested every day.

 

[DisneyCane]

Also no one can fully protect themselves from getting the virus. Even if you do everything right it can still happen.

If you live in a home with a dedicated HVAC system, you never leave the home, have no visitors and do contactless delivery for everything the chance of getting infected would be along the lines of winning the powerball, megamillions, getting struck by lighting and surviving a plane crash in the same week.

 

[legwand77]

They probably shouldn’t have lied to us early on when they said masks were ineffective and not to use them. And no, I’m not buying that it took time for them to figure out they were. Whatever their motivations were (saving enough masks for medical personnel maybe), this is a good way to lose credibility from the get go.

That has been their stance for decades prior to April/May of this year. So have they been lying for decades or...

This example is from 2017 many more prior

Use of face masks by well persons: CDC does not routinely recommend the use of face masks by well persons in the home or other community settings as a means of avoiding infection during influenza pandemics except under special, high-risk circumstances

MMWR Recommendations and Reports

Community Mitigation Guidelines to Prevent Pandemic Influenza ...

www.cdc.gov

 

[lazyboy97o]

If you live in a home with a dedicated HVAC system, you never leave the home, have no visitors and do contactless delivery for everything the chance of getting infected would be along the lines of winning the powerball, megamillions, getting struck by lighting and surviving a plane crash in the same week.

An option very few have.

 

[Touchdown]

If you live in a home with a dedicated HVAC system, you never leave the home, have no visitors and do contactless delivery for everything the chance of getting infected would be along the lines of winning the powerball, megamillions, getting struck by lighting and surviving a plane crash in the same week.

Very few can do that, going to a grocery store (at least it’s parking lot) is required for most of this country.

 

[legwand77]

High number of positives, much lower positivity rate (albeit still high), 435 hospitalizations
View attachment 482605

Kinda miss the YIKES but do like the emoticons.

For Orange County, with 3rd most tests run per day in two weeks, and at pretty much 10%, liking that trend line, maybe a hint of a peak, too early to tell though

 

[legwand77]

Glenfiddich? macallan?


I have a good local...

Cape May Distillery Back Bay Bourbon

But I ain’t picky neither!

Lagavulin guy here