Disney(World) vs. Disney(land)?

[Taylor]

Although I'm not '74 and don't have the full knowledge of this like he does, I can answer this question. It's a combination of both factors. Some of the current execs are retiring no matter what, but many of them are frustrated that their long-term plan of sitting on pixie dust and watching stupid tourists show up anyway has failed. It was inevitable: Universal has been adding substantial attractions while Disney simply raised prices. Tourists are smarter than they were ten years ago, and with online research many are choosing to cut a few days out of their WDW visits for a trip to Universal or Sea World. Guest survey responses are getting lower, with many of them claiming WWOHP as their favorite attraction. Theme park attendance has grown at every Disney park worldwide except Florida and Hong Kong. Plus, even though Universal will never reach the attendance levels of WDW, Uni is pulling in percentage gains while WDW dropped. Those numbers cannot be denied. Considering that WWOHP was just the beginning of Uni's Orlando expansion plan, WDW finally conceded that the FLE won't combat Potter or Transformers. FLE is a beautiful bandaid to fix the MK's current crowding issues and doesn't add much true capacity other than dining.

Remember, we're discussing people in those TDO offices; the successful turnarounds at Uni and DCA have damaged TDO's pride. Nothing is currently greenlit to help Florida any time soon. Avatar is a long-term pipe dream at DAK; and the FLE, while lovely, merely addresses existing concerns. NexGen has already raised significant issues in its testing phases. Meanwhile, Uni has WWOHP, a Potter expansion, Transformers, and multiple updates on the way—and DCA has Carsland and significant performance gains.

Good thing Florida has that enormous plastic hat in DHA to add MAGIC. Uni has the most cutting-edge ride in America.

Remember all those hints I dropped about Staggs' visit and the closed-door meeting at DAK? Corporate and TDO have finally gotten serious about improving WDW.

Oh yeah I forgot about the DAK secret knights of the round table meeting, man I would've liked to have been a fly on the wall in that meeting

 

[cheezbat]

I must remain vague. It's all related to Ops. Much of the attractions and Ops teams already dislike FastPass, and NexGen has only added to the insanity.

No surprise here. I figured this was going to end up being a waste of a billion dollars.

 

[TalkingHead]

I must remain vague. It's all related to Ops. Much of the attractions and Ops teams already dislike FastPass, and NexGen has only added to the insanity.

Understandable. I'm curious about this, though. Because it seems like NexGen has the potential to be something that's shoved down the throats of front-line CMs without their input. Interested to see how it turns out.

 

[tirian]

Understandable. I'm curious about this, though. Because it seems like NexGen has the potential to be something that's shoved down the throats of front-line CMs without their input. Interested to see how it turns out.

I'm not talking about the front-line CMs.

Not to backpeddle: for some reason, I feel confident that Disney is going to make sure NexGen works. They've invested too much to admit the RFID and everything else were unnecessary. "We haven't built an E-ticket in the MK since 1992, but look, you can pay by waving a card in front a sensor!"

 

[the.dreamfinder]

@TalkingHead and @tirian
I think that it's been interesting that no one has really brought up how ops feels about this in any measurable way. Sure, someone might bring up how FP+ could bring the problems of ADRs to attractions or whether there should be FPs for Nemo. Folks in ops must really be pulling their hair out over this one ... and it hasn't even been implemented yet.

 

[menamechris]

Remember, we're discussing people in those TDO offices; the successful turnarounds at Uni and DCA have damaged TDO's pride. Nothing is currently greenlit to help Florida any time soon. Avatar is a long-term pipe dream at DAK; and the FLE, while lovely, merely addresses existing concerns. NexGen has already raised significant issues in its testing phases. Meanwhile, Uni has WWOHP, a Potter expansion, Transformers, and multiple updates on the way—and DCA has Carsland and significant performance gains.

I fear that anything at this point will be too little, too late. Universal is running at a rapid pace, and TDO is showing (once again) that they can't move faster than a snail's pace on making decisions. And while all these serious discussions may be happening about getting serious about adding some substance to DHS, I also expect them to take the "let's wait and see if FLE raises attendance just enough so we don't have to do anything" approach. I have a feeling Harry Potter 2.0 will be open and sucking more guests away before TDO can even agree to a plan going forward on anything.

 

[WDW1974]

Let's see...'84, character in the water....that would most likely been Middleburg High. I went to the rival school up the road - class of '86. While all of the other schools in our county did go, Middleburg was banned for a number of years. I know - I had friends there, and that is the reason they were told they could not go the year I did!

Yep. I was told earlier that Springs 'incident' of character tossing into the Hub Waterways was either a year or two before that one.

 

[WDW1974]

I've been desperately racking my brain trying to come up with a thought-provoking question that has not yet been discussed on all of these rumors sprouting up & I just can't seem to find one.

'74, I know you will update us on anything new as you can but do you feel as though old rides/effects being fixed/refurbed will be part of this change? Or do you feel like they will just focus on the new things & leave it at that? I'd love to hear that both will be addressed but I'm thinking maybe the latter will take precedent.

Also, do you feel the next D23 will be too soon for any major announcements? Or will they likely announce beforehand & present concepts at D23 to get people hyped for the convention?

Thanks again for making me feel like the light may squeak out from behind the WDW clouds once more.

I'd like to believe SQS will go up across WDW. There is some evidence of that with Mansion and HoP, but plenty more in the other direction (any of the Mountains, PoC, EE, CTX etc). There really seems to be no desire to have every attraction running in proper show shape at WDW and that's why you have the mess you do. I'm a skeptic. Change and then I'll believe you've changed, don't simply tell me that you will.

As to D23 and announcements, I am pretty sure there will be major ones next year. They learned last time that fans expect them based on 2009. But whether those are Shanghai, Paris, Anaheim or Orlando based announcements or a bit of all, I have no clue yet. We're a year away. ... and the world is ending this December anyway!

 

[WDW1974]

74 do you think new projects are in the works because TDO sees possible faults or is it new management could come any time and the suits want to "better there resumes"

Not going to be lazy here ... but what I've said earlier plus Tirian's wonderful post more than covers it.

TDO has had folks running around with a 'the sky is falling! the sky is falling!' mentality for a good 18 months now ... and it's a growing fear.

They see where their business has been, where it is and where it is projected to go.

They are in deep (blank).

 

[Taylor]

I'd like to believe SQS will go up across WDW. There is some evidence of that with Mansion and HoP, but plenty more in the other direction (any of the Mountains, PoC, EE, CTX etc). There really seems to be no desire to have every attraction running in proper show shape at WDW and that's why you have the mess you do. I'm a skeptic. Change and then I'll believe you've changed, don't simply tell me that you will.

As to D23 and announcements, I am pretty sure there will be major ones next year. They learned last time that fans expect them based on 2009. But whether those are Shanghai, Paris, Anaheim or Orlando based announcements or a bit of all, I have no clue yet. We're a year away. ... and the world is ending this December anyway!

Im hoping for DHS announcement and Avatar art next year at D23

 

[WDW1974]

Just curious if you can say what issues the NexGen testing has raised?

I must remain vague. It's all related to Ops. Much of the attractions and Ops teams already dislike FastPass, and NexGen has only added to the insanity.

If I just said 'shocking' would I need any sarcastic smileys or do you think most people would get me?

 

[WDW1974]

I'm not talking about the front-line CMs.

Not to backpeddle: for some reason, I feel confident that Disney is going to make sure NexGen works. They've invested too much to admit the RFID and everything else were unnecessary. "We haven't built an E-ticket in the MK since 1992, but look, you can pay by waving a card in front a sensor!"

There's one word that I can pull from your post that IMHO sums up the entire NEXGEN initiative: unnecessary.

 

[Taylor]

If I just said 'shocking' would I need any sarcastic smileys or do you think most people would get me?

I don't think you need any emoticons for that one well maybe the barfing one

 

[TalkingHead]

I'm not talking about the front-line CMs.

Not to backpeddle: for some reason, I feel confident that Disney is going to make sure NexGen works. They've invested too much to admit the RFID and everything else were unnecessary. "We haven't built an E-ticket in the MK since 1992, but look, you can pay by waving a card in front a sensor!"

I know you're not. But in my experience (which is admittedly limited), the management's desire to ignore front-line CMs' opinions made for a bad experience for the guests.

Hope NexGen works out, because it's pretty obvious that Disney makes plans without CMs in mind.

 

[IWant2GoNow]

I'd like to believe SQS will go up across WDW. There is some evidence of that with Mansion and HoP, but plenty more in the other direction (any of the Mountains, PoC, EE, CTX etc). There really seems to be no desire to have every attraction running in proper show shape at WDW and that's why you have the mess you do. I'm a skeptic. Change and then I'll believe you've changed, don't simply tell me that you will.

As to D23 and announcements, I am pretty sure there will be major ones next year. They learned last time that fans expect them based on 2009. But whether those are Shanghai, Paris, Anaheim or Orlando based announcements or a bit of all, I have no clue yet. We're a year away. ... and the world is ending this December anyway!

Yes, actions speak louder than words. I'm wondering if any new clientele will be put in place that would have enough care & power to get these attractions completely show ready though.

I'm sure Shanghai will have a LOT to show off (or at least should in my mind). I would think that would be their biggest announcements but I'd LOVE to be proven wrong.

Oh, & I hope you're right about the end of the world... As long as you mean, end of how the "W"orld has been run for the past decade or more...

 

[marni1971]

I was there at the time ... but a little too overwhelmed by it all to be thinking of using my Kodak Instamatic on taking pics.

Sorry!

Showing your age now

 

[marni1971]

Although I'm not '74 and don't have the full knowledge of this like he does, I can answer this question. It's a combination of both factors. Some of the current execs are retiring no matter what, but many of them are frustrated that their long-term plan of sitting on pixie dust and watching stupid tourists show up anyway has failed. It was inevitable: Universal has been adding substantial attractions while Disney simply raised prices. Tourists are smarter than they were ten years ago, and with online research many are choosing to cut a few days out of their WDW visits for a trip to Universal or Sea World. Guest survey responses are getting lower, with many of them claiming WWOHP as their favorite attraction. Theme park attendance has grown at every Disney park worldwide except Florida and Hong Kong. Plus, even though Universal will never reach the attendance levels of WDW, Uni is pulling in percentage gains while WDW dropped. Those numbers cannot be denied. Considering that WWOHP was just the beginning of Uni's Orlando expansion plan, WDW finally conceded that the FLE won't combat Potter or Transformers. FLE is a beautiful bandaid to fix the MK's current crowding issues and doesn't add much true capacity other than dining.

Remember, we're discussing people in those TDO offices; the successful turnarounds at Uni and DCA have damaged TDO's pride. Nothing is currently greenlit to help Florida any time soon. Avatar is a long-term pipe dream at DAK; and the FLE, while lovely, merely addresses existing concerns. NexGen has already raised significant issues in its testing phases. Meanwhile, Uni has WWOHP, a Potter expansion, Transformers, and multiple updates on the way—and DCA has Carsland and significant performance gains.

Good thing Florida has that enormous plastic hat in DHA to add MAGIC. Uni has the most cutting-edge ride in America.

Remember all those hints I dropped about Staggs' visit and the closed-door meeting at DAK? Corporate and TDO have finally gotten serious about improving WDW.

I HAD to quote this single post. In 74 pages it is the one post that sums up todays resort.

To those who doubted those who had said this for months - NOW do you understand?

 

[devoy1701]

I HAD to quote this single post. In 74 pages it is the one post that sums up todays resort.

To those who doubted those who had said this for months - NOW do you understand?

I would never doubt you Martin.
(we don't have a bashful smiley)

 

[FrankLapidus]

As to D23 and announcements, I am pretty sure there will be major ones next year. They learned last time that fans expect them based on 2009. But whether those are Shanghai, Paris, Anaheim or Orlando based announcements or a bit of all, I have no clue yet. We're a year away. ... and the world is ending this December anyway!

Would it be safe to assume that, in terms of a WDW announcement, Disney are going to go to town on Avatar? The announcement didn't exactly set the world alight and there's been very little news of significance on it since then so I can't see them wanting anything else at WDW overshadowing this new marquee development. I hope I'm wrong so do you think that, knowing what you know of the plans to overhaul DHS at present, anything will be far enough along in that regard to announce?

 

[flynnibus]

Understandable. I'm curious about this, though. Because it seems like NexGen has the potential to be something that's shoved down the throats of front-line CMs without their input. Interested to see how it turns out.

I'm sure its more about people who have to pay for staffing... and this is a technology overlay that is sure to increase staffing needs, not reduce them. Plus add layers of complexity that when error conditions arise, the 'playbook' probably gets a ton more complicated. All things that if your job is focused on keeping an attraction running smoothly at all times, with the least amount of resources - are probably at odds with your job