Disney(World) vs. Disney(land)?

[COProgressFan]

"We haven't built an E-ticket in the MK since 1992, but look, you can pay by waving a card in front a sensor!"

Taken out of context, but, yeah, I guess that pretty much sums it up!

 

[jt04]

Although I'm not '74 and don't have the full knowledge of this like he does, I can answer this question. It's a combination of both factors. Some of the current execs are retiring no matter what, but many of them are frustrated that their long-term plan of sitting on pixie dust and watching stupid tourists show up anyway has failed. It was inevitable: Universal has been adding substantial attractions while Disney simply raised prices. Tourists are smarter than they were ten years ago, and with online research many are choosing to cut a few days out of their WDW visits for a trip to Universal or Sea World. Guest survey responses are getting lower, with many of them claiming WWOHP as their favorite attraction. Theme park attendance has grown at every Disney park worldwide except Florida and Hong Kong. Plus, even though Universal will never reach the attendance levels of WDW, Uni is pulling in percentage gains while WDW dropped. Those numbers cannot be denied. Considering that WWOHP was just the beginning of Uni's Orlando expansion plan, WDW finally conceded that the FLE won't combat Potter or Transformers. FLE is a beautiful bandaid to fix the MK's current crowding issues and doesn't add much true capacity other than dining.

Remember, we're discussing people in those TDO offices; the successful turnarounds at Uni and DCA have damaged TDO's pride. Nothing is currently greenlit to help Florida any time soon. Avatar is a long-term pipe dream at DAK; and the FLE, while lovely, merely addresses existing concerns. NexGen has already raised significant issues in its testing phases. Meanwhile, Uni has WWOHP, a Potter expansion, Transformers, and multiple updates on the way—and DCA has Carsland and significant performance gains.

Good thing Florida has that enormous plastic hat in DHA to add MAGIC. Uni has the most cutting-edge ride in America.

Remember all those hints I dropped about Staggs' visit and the closed-door meeting at DAK? Corporate and TDO have finally gotten serious about improving WDW.

This is a great summation of what our insiders have been saying. I will always believe this is only one side of the story.

I will contend until the end that this was essentially the plan for years. Basically to finish capital intensive projects in the pipeline such as DCA and the ships and then turn attention to WDW. Once Uni and SW committed to their projects for the next decade Disney was able to formulate their game plan. Staggs delivered the playbook at the DAK meeting.

That was my theory, is still my theory and will always be my theory.

Can you tell it is football season?

Are you ready for some football?

 

[Jedeye80]

This is a great summation of what our insiders have been saying. I will always believe this is only one side of the story.

I will contend until the end that this was essentially the plan for years. Basically to finish capital intensive projects in the pipeline such as DCA and the ships and then turn attention to WDW. Once Uni and SW committed to their projects for the next decade Disney was able to formulate their game plan. Staggs delivered the playbook at the DAK meeting.

That was my theory, is still my theory and will always be my theory.

Can you tell it is football season?

Are you ready for some football?

Are we talking American football or rest of world football?

 

[flynnibus]

I don't know if we are in agreement or not or if something is being lost in translation. I am not disagreeing with any of the above. I don't feel that people make decisions on becoming Disney consumers by coming to this site any more than any other. Casual guests who are making plans for the first or second time, go to all the official (and non-official) planning sites.

But those mommy blogger posts, etc all add to the positive news those customers get to. Not only that, those are more potential things to get linked on facebook, etc and spread through social graphs. It's impressions all around.. for dirt cheap. A url linked by a friend is far more 'valuable' than a banner ad... and far cheaper and far more 'replay' value then direct mailers, radio spots, and even TV to a degree.

That is why the carpet bombing has value.. and not only focusing on established media. You question their use and embrace of D-tier 'media' - I say its not about their power individually, but their power added together. And as you said prior, their standards are different so they are much easier to manipulate

Again. I don't see anything we disagree on. I do believe that Disney can do a better job of 'faking it' than they do. There's a lot of things they could do, but choose not to. And, no, I am not going to place those items out here because in the real world I get paid to offer advice like that.

Come on - you and others have been FAR more critical of the Parks blog in the past.. arguing its to put others out of business, to control the fans, people complaining about controlled content, etc. Some people were delusional in thinking it must be like an open door, company hosted discussion format. No, it's a outward facing propaganda bazooka. It's not even an outlet for operational type stuff.. purely marketing messages.

Yes, but again. Those are people that are 90% or more sold on the MAGIC. They aren't a new audience. They may be new a Disney deluxe resort ... or a cruise ... or a visit to DLR vs. WDW ... but they are Disney nuts. Period.

Not necessarily - those stories are getting linked and spread throughout the social graph. What the hardcores read.. they share with their acquaintances that may not follow as closely. Or those lesser followers 'like' a page and get the stuff fed into their newsfeeds... Information is spread so much faster, and further now with social.. even with your hated twitter. The reach is multiplied with the social graph and that's what makes is so powerful.

OK, the last part almost hurt my feelings (but then I realized what curmudgeon meant and started smiling a lot!)

But it seems like you're trying to ascribe some sort of Disney activist to me, when that isn't who I am or who I'd ever want to be. I want my voice heard in the fan community. History has proven that to be the case. I want my voice heard behind the scenes at Disney. History has proven that to be the case as well.

I'm not looking to be a figurehead behind a movement to hold Disney's feet to the proverbial fire. It just isn't who I am ... and you probably have no idea how many sites have asked me to write for them or podcasters who have asked me to be a guest etc. At the end of the day, I am happy with my role as it is.

I won't go much further here since this is really diverging OT now.. but I'd suggest a mirror check You want the credit.. you want the recognition.. you want to be the source. But you aren't willing to give up your public anonymity so this balance of the discussion forum where you can drop hints or bombs at will is more to your liking. You want to be the guy in the shadow manipulating the guy up front.. because the guy up front can take the bullet if it comes, leaving you free to shift somewhere else if needed. I just haven't decided if your lack of publishing your own blog/site is because a) lack of technical prowess and no desire to learn it (oldschool) or b) you need the energy of the baited responses to keep going. Maybe both

I find it fascinating. And since media is my business, it might be more interesting to me than some others. Although, clearly a lot of Disney fans don't enjoy being treated in a disengenuous smarmy fashion. If so, places like this (and many others) would just die because we could all feel special by hanging out with the official bloggers.

I'd also guess that many fans would be fascinated by Disney's internal politics as it ultimately plays a big role in what they experience and how when they enter a Disney theme park.

Interest in the company function and how things get done? Sure - but you instead are trying to make things personal by dragging people in by name, not to question their business practices, but to question their integrity and classless topics like talking about compensation, etc. It's not about business practice, influencers, and strategy when you repeatedly try to call people to the carpet and paint them negatively because they won't 'come and face you..' in the anonymous discussion forums. Come on.. that's just juvenile, unprofessional, and you (I believe) can be way above that. In this current evolution.. you have been far more than not.

In this latest run back on WDWMagic you have generally been much 'cleaner' then in previous stints on other sites.. that generally have lead to you being run off. Even going back to that LP thread of just a year ago.. you were much more focused on the soap opera stuff and unprofessional tactics then you were on actual meat and substance. The opening post of this thread (and actually most of your posts in this thread) show how effective your message can be when you leave the baiting out of it. I hope you stick more to this tact, and leave the backhanded comments, baiting, etc to aspiring shock jocks like Lutz. You don't need that type of 'look at me.. I know personal stuff.. I name drop..' junk to be effective and credible.

Not a sermon.. just a thought..

 

[djlaosc]

One other thing people forget: ESPN Wide World of Sports. Disney has turned that thing into a money monster. It is probably the main reason why Grad Nights are gone. Disney can rake in more money hosting sporting events, teams and things like Run Disney than a costly to operate night event in the parks. The quiet expansion of WWOS has been quite remarkable. I keep waiting for them to add an aquatic complex.

I still don't understand why there aren't any batting cages that you could go to at ESPNWWOS - that could be something to draw visitors there... (we were talking about going to one next time we're there)

Same as the 100-lane bowling alley - is that still going ahead, or has it been cancelled again?

 

[fractal]

There's one word that I can pull from your post that IMHO sums up the entire NEXGEN initiative: unnecessary.

Not sure if you know this - how far into the $1billion is TDO with Nextgen? Could the purpose of all these meeting be about scaling back on NexGen and reallocating that money? - or has the $billion already been spent?

 

[tirian]

If I just said 'shocking' would I need any sarcastic smileys or do you think most people would get me?

Some people would run home crying to their Disney pin collections. Patrick the Watermelon would probably blame it all on corn.

 

[ChrisFL]

hold on, I need to grab another popcorn bucket...movie theater sized...should last a week or two

 

[GLaDOS]

Tirian, if you don't mind me asking, what did you mean when you called Avatar a "pipe dream"?

 

[tirian]

Tirian, if you don't mind me asking, what did you mean when you called Avatar a "pipe dream"?

It's coming. Eventually. Maybe. Not soon enough.

 

[GLaDOS]

It's coming. Eventually. Maybe. Not soon enough.

That's what I figured, but I wanted to make sure. It's kind of nutty they announced it when they did.

But then again, Universal Hollywood announced Potter was coming and no one knows when that project will start either.

 

[RSoxNo1]

I must remain vague. It's all related to Ops. Much of the attractions and Ops teams already dislike FastPass, and NexGen has only added to the insanity.

Here's hoping this is good news.

 

[RSoxNo1]

Yep. I was told earlier that Springs 'incident' of character tossing into the Hub Waterways was either a year or two before that one.

Who/what did they toss into the water?

 

[djlaosc]

That's what I figured, but I wanted to make sure. It's kind of nutty they announced it when they did.

But then again, Universal Hollywood announced Potter was coming and no one knows when that project will start either.

Isn't Potter at Hollywood supposed to open in 2015?

I'm sure I've read that somewhere (can't remember where though)

 

[GLaDOS]

Isn't Potter at Hollywood supposed to open in 2015?

I mean anything is possible. But Uni hasn't even begun tearing whatever they're going to tear down to build it yet. Not have they released what's actually coming with it.

 

[the.dreamfinder]

Who/what did they toss into the water?

Here you go tim.

One other thing people forget: ESPN Wide World of Sports. Disney has turned that thing into a money monster. It is probably the main reason why Grad Nights are gone. Disney can rake in more money hosting sporting events, teams and things like Run Disney than a costly to operate night event in the parks. The quiet expansion of WWOS has been quite remarkable. I think Grad Night is the perfect example of this. WDW no longer needs it. They got rid of it. It was heavily regional. Disneyland still has it.

The bottom item I'll just disagree with ... Grad Nights at WDW used to be special and draw schools are all over the East coast (yes, predominantly SE and FL), but they kept making it less special and killed it. That was their goal and they succeeded.

I believe DL is about to do likewise as they are moving the event to DCA next year.

It's a shame. I've had a lot of MAGICal time at WDW, but my Grad Night (wearing a tux with a RED bowtie!) is still one of the tops.

Yeah, I just noticed that about the west coast. I knew it had grown into a bigger experience of multiple days and more out of town nights, especially in the 90's. (It actually use to me off when the opening of PI was delayed for the pre-show of Grad Night. I wanted my canteen filled at the Adventurers Club.) I think it became more about filling hotel room nights well after I was there in 1984. It was simply an all night party that was pretty much Florida and S Georgia schools when I was there. Collared shirt, tie and dress pants were the dress code. Parks were also usually deader during that time. It was 11:00 PM until 6:00AM when I went. Very different in later years.

Grad Night was in the top three events of my senior year. At least no one in my HS got kicked out of the park. Although I did see some group toss a character into the moat. I think that school got banned.

If it was 1984, I am almost positive it was Coral Springs High School (down here in SoFl) and thet got a loooong ban ... either five or seven years from returning.

 

[asianway]

Who/what did they toss into the water?

Is this why half the entertainment budget now goes to character attendants?

 

[danlb_2000]

No surprise here. I figured this was going to end up being a waste of a billion dollars.

The $1 billion number for "Nextgen" seems to get thrown around a lot, but I don't think anyone outside of Disney really knows exactly how that money is being spent, of it that is even an accurate number. I highly doubt the ability to book your fastpasses ahead of time would cost $1 billion to implement, so what else is included in that number?

 

[lazyboy97o]

The $1 billion number for "Nextgen" seems to get thrown around a lot, but I don't think anyone outside of Disney really knows exactly how that money is being spent, of it that is even an accurate number. I highly doubt the ability to book your fastpasses ahead of time would cost $1 billion to implement, so what else is included in that number?

FastPass Plus is just a component of the larger NextGen project. There is more to it. A lot of it has to do with upgrading and installing new infrastructure such as all of the Wi-Fi hotspots in the parks and resorts. Getting people to use the Wi-Fi also means there is going to have to be a very large bandwidth capacity so that the Wi-Fi and the Disney apps are actually useful. Most of NextGen is backstage. And let's also not forget that this is Disney and such a project likely would have cost many other companies less.

 

[M.rudolf]

I mean anything is possible. But Uni hasn't even begun tearing whatever they're going to tear down to build it yet. Not have they released what's actually coming with it.

Universal has started Amite is gone. The lakes drained and leveling has started