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Disney(World) vs. Disney(land)?
- Thread starter WDW1974
- Start date
Jim Possible
Active Member
What a... lively board. There's like 20 pages of messages for me to wade through. Wow! 
Now with all this talk of new users being sock puppet accounts, I suppose I ought to disclose that yes, I did work for Disney at one point in time -- as a creative contractor. Off and on for four or five years. Not in the parks.
Now I'm just a spectator. And lordy, I'm gonna need a bigger bowl of popcorn.
^^Agrees.^^
Now with all this talk of new users being sock puppet accounts, I suppose I ought to disclose that yes, I did work for Disney at one point in time -- as a creative contractor. Off and on for four or five years. Not in the parks.
Now I'm just a spectator. And lordy, I'm gonna need a bigger bowl of popcorn.
^^Agrees.^^
ParentsOf4
Well-Known Member
At this point, it appears TDO completely misunderstood their market. Yes, the economy is doing poorly but this hasn't stopped DCA or WWOHP from being huge successes. Most consumers are "value" shoppers. They have a limited amount of disposable income and will use it to purchase what ever they think presents the best "value" to them, whether it is a flat panel tv, an iphone, or a vacation. Products that are perceived as good "values" do well in most economic climates. Weaker products do poorly. In a good economic climate people have more money so the pool of disposable income is larger. In a difficult economic climate, the pool is smaller and competition is tougher. TDO needs to compete in that market.
By "playing it safe" and not investing in major theme park upgrades, WDW has made its product less appealing. "Gee, we went to WDW 5 years ago and they haven't added anything since then. Prices are how much now? Forget that, let's buy that 52" flat panel tv we always wanted and vacation at the local beach." Or "Did you see what they did at Islands of Adventure? Gee, let's go check that out on our next vacation." The right consumer product (including a vacation) still sells well. WDW's attendance has been propped up because of deep discounts such as "Free Dining". However, that well is running dry. There are only so many times a value shopper will travel to WDW for "Free Dining" when the attractions are all the same. At this point, TDO needs something more than "Free Dining" to convince consumers to return.
TDO needs to recognize that it competes in the entire consumer market, not just the vacation market. And TDO needs to accept that if the competition is moving ahead in the market for consumer dollars, WDW will fall behind if they don't.
TDO has propped up profits by increasing prices significantly faster than the rate of inflation while making cuts in quality. But that well is running dry as well. People simply don't want to pay more for the "same old vacation", especially in difficult economic times. They certainly don't want to pay more if quality is perceived to be declining. TDO needs to give the consumer a reason to spend more rather than adopting the mentality of "We're Walt Disney World; people will pay anything to vacation with us."
1974's original post gives us some hope that TDO is finally "getting it", that they are finally understanding (or at least reacting to) what's happening in the market.
ParentsOf4
Well-Known Member
Deep discounts work for a bit. After a while, people get used to the deep discounts and those discounts are no longer enough. (When you see a consumer product in a store that's 40% off for the first time, you're reaction is "Wow!". After seeing it 40% off week-after-week, it becomes the new norm.)I don't think they will be, I hope they will be. Not for anything, even with the 40% discount people can not afford to pay that (that's only for Deluxe resorts, and I only saw 30-35% off this year anyway- except military & CM). So, even with their idea that offering the discount will draw more people - haven't they learned yet that it's not working??? I hope they start making some major changes, because if not, we will continue to see the downfall of WDW
It appears TDO adopted the mindset that deep discounts would work forever. "That worked last year so let's try it again this year." It's rather shocking to see an organization as large as TDO fall into this common business trap. With the amount of money they spend on market research, they should know better.
TimeTrip
Well-Known Member
This is how your predictions appear to me, and probably many others.
Hypothetical #1:
- Year X: JT: Something great will be happening at WDW soon! It might be A, B or C!
- Year X+2: Something great comes to WDW that is neither A, B or C
JT: See I told you so! I was right!!! The theories I had behind A, B, and C are the same driving force behind the greatness that just happened!
Hypothetical #2:
- Year X: JT: Something great will be happening at WDW soon! It might be A, B or C!
- Year X+4: Something great comes to WDW that is somewhat related to idea A
JT: See I told you so! I was right!!!
Hypothetical #3:
- Year X: JT: Something great will be happening at WDW soon!
- Year X+10: Something great comes to WDW
JT: See I told you so! I was right!!!
Really.. it gets pretty tiresome after a while when you generally set yourself up to never be wrong. However, I do tend to enjoy the banter that happens when you interject...
A lot of people who complain about TDO understand how TDO works. Other resorts don't come into Orlandos mismanagement.
CinematicFusion
Well-Known Member
From a business standpoint, WDW needs to be adding at least one major attraction every 5 years to keep families coming back.
I'm one of those families that comes back about every 4 to 5 years. Looking for the new ride or land. In 2016, I'm hoping to see another attraction plus the new FLE...(and potter..can't wait to see that!)
You will always have the first time families coming to Disney with their sons and daughters (ill be one with my two girls)but will that same family come back if they already have seen what WDW has to offer.
They may decide to go to DCA, or take a Disney Cruise, or go to Disneys Hawaiian resort or even book a stay at universal. What ever is trending hot at the moment.
Has to hard to run such a huge land such as WDW. Just the upkeep alone has to be beyond expensive. That is what I've loved about Disney parks, they are always so clean and well maintained. Must take an army.
I don't see WDW having problems that can't be fixed. Sometimes you just have to throw a fastball high and tight to get intimidate the batter and get the crowd back on your side.
Disney just needs to build an awesome e ticket ride in one of their 4 parks. Really doesn't matter which. Most from out of state buy the park hopper. That will get the media and fanboys excited and create some buzz.
FLE is an awesome family world with solid rides and shows.....but their is nothing like a e ticket thrill ride aimed at an audience of 13-20 to get everyone excited. Avatar might be that ride! Look forward to the artwork.
I'm one of those families that comes back about every 4 to 5 years. Looking for the new ride or land. In 2016, I'm hoping to see another attraction plus the new FLE...(and potter..can't wait to see that!)
You will always have the first time families coming to Disney with their sons and daughters (ill be one with my two girls)but will that same family come back if they already have seen what WDW has to offer.
They may decide to go to DCA, or take a Disney Cruise, or go to Disneys Hawaiian resort or even book a stay at universal. What ever is trending hot at the moment.
Has to hard to run such a huge land such as WDW. Just the upkeep alone has to be beyond expensive. That is what I've loved about Disney parks, they are always so clean and well maintained. Must take an army.
I don't see WDW having problems that can't be fixed. Sometimes you just have to throw a fastball high and tight to get intimidate the batter and get the crowd back on your side.
Disney just needs to build an awesome e ticket ride in one of their 4 parks. Really doesn't matter which. Most from out of state buy the park hopper. That will get the media and fanboys excited and create some buzz.
FLE is an awesome family world with solid rides and shows.....but their is nothing like a e ticket thrill ride aimed at an audience of 13-20 to get everyone excited. Avatar might be that ride! Look forward to the artwork.
usually by car...
Tom Morrow
Well-Known Member
It's been about a year now and not a single piece of artwork has been released. At this point, I'd love to see them go in different directions as this thread has suggested. I mean, as long as things start actually happening. Is there anyone at all that was genuinely excited about Avatar? I feel it was just more of a collective "well, at least its something."
It is indeed depressing - and I would also count it as proof for what WDW1974 said recently that Disney's management is determined to try to break the 100 $ mark for a single day admission rather sooner than later.
montyz81
Well-Known Member
This is interesting, the last time I remember a WDW Commercial about a splash on a single ride was Test Track. So I have been fooled! It has been just promotions ever since.
alissafalco
Well-Known Member
People are so hung up on AoA because its a Value resort with Deluxe prices!! If people could afford to pay the Deluxe prices they would stay at a Deluxe! They wouldn't stay in a Value suite
flynnibus
Premium Member
People are so hung up on AoA because its a Value resort with Deluxe prices!! If people could afford to pay the Deluxe prices they would stay at a Deluxe! They wouldn't stay in a Value suite
Sorry - this is just a knee-jerk reaction vs actually comparing what the offerings really are. Yes, it's a value resort, but it's not a single room value like you are used to, nor is it valid to compare a suite value to a single room deluxe. Not only that, it's about half the rack rate of a deluxe.
People are trying to compare discounted, single room deluxe rates to a TWO room, RACK RATE.
It's not even close to an apples to apples.. its wrong on every dimension.
If you want to compare to your traditional deluxes.. compare a LM room.. which is less than 1/4 of the price of a room at the Poly.
The comparisons for AoA are Villas, ASM family suites, and connecting rooms in the values.
COProgressFan
Well-Known Member
Wow, I think that post perfectly sums up the problems with WDP&R and TDO's operation of WDW in recent years.
PeoplemoverTTA
Well-Known Member
Excellent post! I highlighted this portion of your response because this seems to be an area apologists use as an excuse for TDO's lack of new attractions and maintenance - "The average tourist doesn't notice." I'm sorry, but they do notice. Not to the extent fans like us do, but the casual tourist who visits WDW can tell if there isn't much that is new.
My cousin, who visits WDW every 4-5 years, was extremely disappointed about the Yeti (another thing apologists mention isn't noticed by casual tourists) last August. My sister, who before last year hadn't been to WDW since 2007, was disgusted with the condition of Splash Mountain and the unkempt queues, along with gaps in theming, to name a few. I did not point out a single perceived flaw or slight (not wanting to spoil their fun). They pointed these things out to me.
So, as you pointed out, the average tourist is noticing the stale product, and the decline, even if they can't put their finger on it, or if they don't call it out on a message board. They're doing so in a way that likely has much more effect on TDO and TWDC - they're doing it with their wallets. And it finally feels like they're (and we're) being heard
ellie-badge
Well-Known Member
I really do not like Kali River Rapids and absorbed nothing from it the last time I went on it five+ years ago. If I'm going to end up being sopping wet for the rest of the day, at least make it an entertaining experience while you're at it so that I'm inclined to ride it again. I could have jumped into my shower while it was running and still have gotten the same ride experience.
alissafalco
Well-Known Member
Its not half the amount of a deluxe suite (I just priced it again) and what part of the word Value do you not understand? You seem to be thinking the way TDO is thinking, and thats why it's not doing well.
ellie-badge
Well-Known Member
I just want to clarify that I haven't actually looked up the prices or availability for Art of Animation myself, but when my Dad checked to see if there were any rooms available for early October, he said that everything was booked solid. So, if that's the case, I'm not sure if it's exactly "not doing well."
CinematicFusion
Well-Known Member
For me...I would rather have Avatar then a clone of RSR. I want something new and different. I don't care which park they put a new theme in. cant fix everything at once, just throw a dart at the theme park map and where it lands....start building.
From a business perspective Disney needs to have different venues and different attractions. If a family has a great time at WDW, on their next trip they might check out what is at Disney California. If both east and west offer the same attractions, wouldn't a family choose universal for a different feel?