Disney(World) vs. Disney(land)?

[PeoplemoverTTA]

I mean, he wouldn't say something like that if the rubes... I mean, guests... were noticing the faster-than-inflation ticket price increases, AA's that don't work, paying more and more for lower quality food, stale parades, unkempt queues and resort grounds, reduced operating hours for the monorail, lack of new attractions/investment in 3 of the 4 Florida parks... would he?

Another great point. The cost for an AP this year is about $650 (with tax) My first AP (back in 2004) was about $425. Suffice it to say there are not 50% more attractions, 50% better upkeep ,etc, since 2004 to justify a 50% increase in price.

Even the Fantasyland "expansion" equals out (or is it one more?) over the # of attractions that were in Mickey's Toontown Fair and FL previously. I commented to this fact on the DPB the other day, announcing the dates for the FLE opening. I sandwiched it between average fangirl rants (eg Can't wait to see the new Fantasyland - so exciting!) to see if it would get through their filter, and it actually did, lol. Here's my comment:

I’m very excited to see Fantasyland after it’s been “unveiled!” Thinking about what used to be in Mickey’s Toontown Fair and Fantasyland prior to the expansion, I’m trying to determine how many new rides are going to be in the “New” Fantasyland. It seems that we’re actually breaking even (or maybe one new ride, after the Snow White coaster opens in a few years) with the expansion – is that right?​

From the artwork and what we’ve seen so far of the Storybook Circus, I know that the remaining areas are going to look fantastic!​

I'm not trying to heckle them at all; I am a marketing and PR professional myself. But, I'm not a fan of the smoke and mirrors they are using on social media. At times, it genuinely feels like manipulation instead of conversation. This is not the fault of their staff, who are just doing their jobs, but it warrants people speaking up at the right times and in the right way.

I'm officially ranting now, but there are so many interesting things in this thread that bear discussion. One of the best threads I've read on this site in a long time. Excellent criticisms and discussion (well, for the most part ).

 

[flynnibus]

Or if you want to compare it like this: The AKL room is 170% more expensive than the AoA room. The AKL 1-bedroom villa however is only 91% more expensive than the AoA suite.

I hear your math - but really that never is the complaint about AoA's pricing. It's that it's over $300+ a night in many categories for what is labeled a 'value'. It's pure sticker shock. People are conditioned to think they can get *something* called deluxe for the $300+/night range because of discounting. So as soon as something called 'value' intrudes in that $300+/night range.. all kinds of alarms go off. Yet they fail to get over the sticker shock and can't get over the product offerings are different.

But in your example, here is why the price delta exists..
AoA LM room sleeps 4, AoA suite sleeps 6
AKL standard sleeps 4, AKV 1 bedroom only sleeps 5

By sleeping 6 instead of 5.. that is part of the justification in the higher jump between a standard room and suite. You get 6 people instead of 4. In AK, you top out at 5 in the 1 bedroom.

 

[flynnibus]

I get that, but the point I'm trying to make is that if I can afford to pay $325 a night, I'm choosing a Deluxe standard room at WL over the Value Suite at AoA. I don't care that I don't have an extra bathroom, I'd rather be in a Deluxe.

And how many people are in your party? It's not just a bathroom, it's separate bedroom, eating area, kitchen, etc.

You can decide none of that is important to you, nor the extra people capacity - but that's because you shouldn't have been looking at a SUITE in the first place. If you need a suite, going to the WL standard room isn't even an option for you.

People see 'oh look.. new resort.. cool theme.. I wanna go!!!' - without really considering if the room format is what they want/need. If not, then obviously staying there is going to be overpaying for what you want.

 

[GLaDOS]

My Dad was looking between October 9th (my birthday) and I think he may have said the 11th, I'm not sure but I can't imagine too much longer than that, as I'd be in the middle of college at the time. I'm trying to check for myself right now, but the website doesn't seem to want to cooperate with me.

Looks like the suites are available, but not the Mermaid rooms.

 

[ellie-badge]

Looks like the suites are available, but not the Mermaid rooms.

My Dad did mention that he tried getting into The Little Mermaid rooms before attempting the suites, so maybe I'm wrong. Sorry for any confusion!

 

[GLaDOS]

My Dad did mention that he did try getting into The Little Mermaid rooms before attempting the suites, so maybe I'm wrong. Sorry for any confusion!

No, it's cool! Just wanted to try and help you out! haha

 

[misterID]

And how many people are in your party? It's not just a bathroom, it's separate bedroom, eating area, kitchen, etc.

You can decide none of that is important to you, nor the extra people capacity - but that's because you shouldn't have been looking at a SUITE in the first place. If you need a suite, going to the WL standard room isn't even an option for you.

People see 'oh look.. new resort.. cool theme.. I wanna go!!!' - without really considering if the room format is what they want/need. If not, then obviously staying there is going to be overpaying for what you want.

Okay, I'm just going to buy a second house in Florida. I think I'd be saving money in the long run.

 

[alissafalco]

And how many people are in your party? It's not just a bathroom, it's separate bedroom, eating area, kitchen, etc.

You can decide none of that is important to you, nor the extra people capacity - but that's because you shouldn't have been looking at a SUITE in the first place. If you need a suite, going to the WL standard room isn't even an option for you.

People see 'oh look.. new resort.. cool theme.. I wanna go!!!' - without really considering if the room format is what they want/need. If not, then obviously staying there is going to be overpaying for what you want.

Really?? My family of 4 shouldn't be looking at a suite?? What if my husband and I want some private time??? Or feel like cooking our own meals to save money??? I'm glad you know whats best for my family.

At any rate, I'm trying to get you and TDO to understand why "AoA isn't sizzling". As a consumer, I am telling you why I wouldn't stay in an AoA suite and why I would choose to stay at WL instead.

 

[TalkingHead]

I'm not trying to heckle them at all; I am a marketing and PR professional myself. But, I'm not a fan of the smoke and mirrors they are using on social media. At times, it genuinely feels like manipulation instead of conversation. This is not the fault of their staff, who are just doing their jobs, but it warrants people speaking up at the right times and in the right way.

At times? You make it sound like it's an occasional thing.

Try "almost all the time," it feels like manipulation.

I'm not sure who to fault, but the staff/company mouthpieces certainly should be held partially accountable for the spin the promote.

 

[Expo_Seeker40]

All the excuses that WDW is taking it slow, the economy is doing bad can't make up for the fact of all the DVC expansion. If the economy is so bad, why the investment in more DVC? Especially when the hotels are hovering around 60% full as it is? Shouldn't the smart move be to invest in what is already there? New entertainment, new attractions, etc.

There was only one time in WDW's history where they genuinely slowed down and that was during the Oil Embargo in the 70s. Not even the market crisis in the 80s stopped them, and they slowed down after 9/11 through mid 2003 and started back up again. (late 2001 to 2002 being the slowest of course)

In the attractions bracket, we haven't had a new attraction in quite a few years....unless you consider the second Dumbo opening a new attraction. Let's be honest that Fantasyland really isn't expanding (unless we really want to see how it moved over to Toontown, otherwise it's mostly occupying 20k INSIDE the 1971 perimeter) We haven't had an entirely new parade or fireworks show in about 10 years (13 with Reflections of Earth), and I'm not talking about the altered 3:00 parade floats or the fact that we borrowed MSEP for the second time.

Other than some minor exhibits opening in Innoventions or various entertainment coming to world showcase, what new thing has Epcot gotten? Besides FLE, we're getting refurbished attractions. And the fanboys and sweatshirt moms...they get so excited over the fact that the geysers now work on BTMRR, LIKE THEY WERE SUPPOSED TO BE BROKEN THAT LONG IN THE FIRST PLACE! Or that Tiki Room light version 2.0 is sort of like a new experience or that Club Mountain may be rickety and shaky as ever with an awkward sound system, but boy they got a new projection ceiling in the queue from a few years ago!

At DHS we still can see 1980s beauties such as Indiana Jones and the 20th century movie ride and the 5 minute toolshed tour. And enjoy 90s favorites such as.... well ....most of the park itself!

Animal Kingdom, the half day park with a disco yeti.....and Avatarland....the land that is so hush hush without a drop of concept art or sketches or mentions...but fear not kids it will open right? Right..... right ?!

WDW grew so much in the 80s and 90s, but even years after 9/11 as Sea World Orlando and Universal Orlando take strides and create new and enticing experiences, TDO is starting to realize that giving the dumb widdle tourists the bottom line will only get WDW so far. There is so little to make the majority of locals,APers and fans want to go back to WDW. Hell, it's been nearly a year since I chose not to renew my WDW AP and got a DLP AP and went there instead in 2011! That really opened my eyes to what it was like to experience another Disney resort with quality in areas that WDW used to have in the 80s and 90s.

WDW is too predictable, too safe, too average. Sure, to the one time tourist it's the most amazing place ever and beats their six flags park from back home, but to those that have been going for years, it's obvious the place is of a lower quality, only getting by thanks to the fanboys and sweatshirt moms who swim in pixie dust and more importantly to the average uninformed one or two time tourist that doesn't know much about WDW and can't make a comparison. Hopefully things will improve for the better now.

 

[flynnibus]

Really?? My family of 4 shouldn't be looking at a suite?? What if my husband and I want some private time??? Or feel like cooking our own meals to save money??? I'm glad you know whats best for my family.

At any rate, I'm trying to get you and TDO to understand why "AoA isn't sizzling". As a consumer, I am telling you why I wouldn't stay in an AoA suite and why I would choose to stay at WL instead.

What you have decided is that your hotel surroundings were more important to you than having a suite and the suite was purely a perk, not a necessity. Not necessarily that AoA is overpriced or doesn't deserve to be called a 'value' resort. You aren't being objective about it. The suite is just an optional perk to you - something you don't feel is necessary to pay for. Compare this to another family of 5 or 6.. who don't have such passing options.

If you actually need that room style, it is competitively priced vs other rooms offering the same requirements and is priced significantly lower than other suites which are more upscale in the Deluxe categories.

The family suites are to address a specific type of demographic - the larger travel families. The groups of 3-4 who are 'priced out' of the property or don't see the value vs a discounted moderate/deluxe really isn't any sweat off Disney's back. That's not who they built the property for.

When LM rooms open, I bet those go at a much quicker clip.. they fit the larger demographic.

 

[habuma]

My cousin, who visits WDW every 4-5 years, was extremely disappointed about the Yeti (another thing apologists mention isn't noticed by casual tourists) last August.

I don't want this to turn into another "Yeti is broken" post (at 28 pages, it really could go in any direction at this point)...but...Why would anyone think that the the occasional 4-5 year visitor would not notice the broken yeti? Honestly, it's been 4 years since I've been to WDW and I didn't have the chance to ride EE back then, but if I go to http://disneyworld.disney.go.com/parks/animal-kingdom/attractions/expedition-everest/ right now, I see a video with a working yeti...and if I didn't know any better I'd be expecting to see that thing grab at me as I rushed past. And I'd be sorely disappointed.

That said, my occasional trip to WDW is still enjoyable and I'm not hating on WDW or anything like that. But I had to point out that it's ridiculous to think that nobody would notice the broken yeti when, in fact, they set expectations of a working yeti in their marketing.

 

[jt04]

At this point, it appears TDO completely misunderstood their market. Yes, the economy is doing poorly but this hasn't stopped DCA or WWOHP from being huge successes. Most consumers are "value" shoppers. They have a limited amount of disposable income and will use it to purchase what ever they think presents the best "value" to them, whether it is a flat panel tv, an iphone, or a vacation. Products that are perceived as good "values" do well in most economic climates. Weaker products do poorly. In a good economic climate there is more disposable income available so the pool of disposable income is larger. In a difficult economic climate, the pool is smaller and competition is tougher. TDO needs to compete in that market.

By "playing it safe" and not investing in major theme park upgrades, WDW has made its product less appealing. "Gee, we went to WDW 5 years ago and they haven't added anything since then. Prices are how much now? Forget that, let's buy that 52" flat panel tv we always wanted and vacation at the local beach." Or "Did you see what they did at Islands of Adventure? Gee, let's go check that out on our next vacation." The right consumer product (including a vacation) still sells well. WDW's attendance has been propped up because of deep discounts such as "Free Dining". However, that well is running dry. There are only so many times a value shopper will travel to WDW for "Free Dining" when the attractions are all the same. At this point, TDO needs something more than "Free Dining" to convince consumers to return.

TDO needs to recognize that it competes in the entire consumer market, not just the vacation market. And TDO needs to accept that if the competition is moving ahead in the market for consumer dollars, WDW will fall behind if they don't.

TDO has propped up profits by increasing prices significantly faster than the rate of inflation while making cuts in quality. But that well is running dry as well. People simply don't want to pay more for the "same old vacation", especially in difficult economic times. They certainly don't want to pay more if quality is perceived to be declining. TDO needs to give the consumer a reason to spend more rather than adopting the mentality of "We're Walt Disney World; people will pay anything to vacation with us."

1974's original post gives us some hope that TDO is finally "getting it", that they are finally understanding (or at least reacting to) what's happening in the market.

Thanks for the thoughtful response but these decisions occur far beyond Orlando now. Pandora is the perfect example.

The decision was made to fix other divisions first. That is plainly obvious. This has allowed the stock price to climb while they retained the ability to control quality where they did invest.

TWDC could have thrown tons of money at WDW as soon as Iger took the reigns but it is unlikely they could have maintained the amazing financial success they have not to mention possibly not providing a quality product.

Even if they had thrown a few billion at WDW parks most of that would just be coming on line and the stock would probably not be doing as well. That would mean less to invest in future projects.

Looking at the big picture, Iger has fixed most of the problems he inherited and can now focus more on WDW. Exactly how I said it would happen.

DL can finally stand on its own. WDW will soon open the FLE which will be an amazing success. Test Track is being completely reimagined. Pandora is underway most likely.

And WDW has maintained itself as the number 1 tourist destination in the world with all sorts of stuff happening on stage and off stage as it pertains to the future. (TT and Pandora and the FLE for starters)

WDW74 has figured out that the change I predicted long ago is happening. He just can't bring himself to admit the future of WDW has always been very secure so he has rationalized TWDC is suddenly acting out of desperation. That is just ridiculous.

Note how deliberate and steady Iger is. Note such decisions such as the Pixar and Marvel purchases. His critics claim these were acts of desperation that he just got lucky on. This is beyond ridiculous and is tin hat territory.

 

[Californian Elitist]

I just want to point out Disneyland's been standing on its own for 57 years now.

 

[TalkingHead]

DL can finally stand on its own. WDW will soon open the FLE which will be an amazing success. Test Track is being completely reimagined. Pandora is underway most likely.

Can you define what "amazing success" means? I'd like to know, so when it doesn't happen, this can be mentioned in the future.

This is beyond ridiculous and is tin hat territory.

Don't you own a house there?

 

[jt04]

I just want to point out Disneyland's been standing on its own for 57 years now.

Yeah DCA 1.0 was a raving success. And DL pre-50th made the complaining about WDW by fanboys seem like nothing. The DLR has taken huge capital projects to bring back to even. What rock have you been under the last 10 years?

Al Lutz just took you off his Christmas card list.

 

[Californian Elitist]

Yeah DCA 1.0 was a raving success. And DL pre-50th made the complaining about WDW by fanboys seem like nothing. The DLR has taken huge capital projects to bring back to even. What rock have you been under the last 10 years?

Al Lutz just took you off his Christmas card list.

First of all, you didn't say DLR, you said DL. That excludes DCA. Secondly, yes, DL was in bad shape way back. People were still visiting the parks, though, just like WDW. I'll say it again, Disneyland has been standing on its own for 57 years now. Let's not talk about living under rocks when there's speculation that you haven't visited a Disney resort in years.

 

[mightynine]

And look at that: the executive over Cars Land now the "Executive Producer" at WDW.

http://www.orlandosentinel.com/the-...-mangum-imagineering-20120808,0,5898268.story

 

[CinematicFusion]

And look at that: the executive over Cars land now the "Executive Producer" at WDW.

http://www.orlandosentinel.com/the-...-mangum-imagineering-20120808,0,5898268.story

Nice find....I like that nugget of news. What ever they are planning...have it ready by 2016!

BUT.....don't bring RSR to WDW. You are imagineers! Try to top RSR!

 

[StageFrenzy]

Nice find....I like that nugget of news. What ever they are planning...have it ready by 2016!

BUT.....don't bring RSR to WDW. You are imagineers! Try to top RSR!

And make sure Tom Morris is a part of the team. That man gets the magic and makes fantastic attractions.