Disney(World) vs. Disney(land)?

[alissafalco]

Why lower prices when you can offer discounts of 40% that make people want to 'jump on the deal' even more..
Why reinvest in minor details you've already conditioned the world to accept at a lesser standard?
etc

If you think things are simply going to be 'rolled back' I think you are setting yourself up for disappointment. Disney will continue to move forward, but what is done is done.. its very very very rare for the company to go back to something. Instead they will try something 'else' when their replacement something fails.

Going back requires admitting a mistake - instead they replace something that under performs with 'an even better idea' so they don't have to admit to a mistake.. instead it's 'plussing'

I don't think they will be, I hope they will be. Not for anything, even with the 40% discount people can not afford to pay that (that's only for Deluxe resorts, and I only saw 30-35% off this year anyway- except military & CM). So, even with their idea that offering the discount will draw more people - haven't they learned yet that it's not working??? I hope they start making some major changes, because if not, we will continue to see the downfall of WDW

 

[ChrisM]

I said this in private, but I'll put it out their publicly as well - If they're going to extend any attraction shouldn't it be Kali River Rapids?

This.

What a catastrophe of a "ride" that is. What is it, 90 seconds long?

 

[flynnibus]

So, even with their idea that offering the discount will draw more people - haven't they learned yet that it's not working??? I hope they start making some major changes, because if not, we will continue to see the downfall of WDW

They haven't been offering steep discounts this year - especially not AoA. This has actually been a year of lesser discounts than prior years. Disney will never lower those rack rates. They simply won't raise them as much as others, and continue to offer promotions to make them seem more attractive.

I don't get why people are so hung up on AoA - it's not a one to one comparison to a standard room. It should be compared to TWO value rooms or villas. The capacities and amenities are in that vein - not simply a room with a pullout.

 

[FrankLapidus]

Transportation is in shambles. Busses cost a fortune to run and get costlier every day. The monorail trains are on their last legs and the 40/30 year old beam way needs a little work.

World Showcase is an area that has been kept up well. Most of DAK's attractions need work, Space Mountain had a botched refurb, CoP, Splash, JC, Pirates, Peter Pan have all been neglected. We all know the story with Future World. The attractions DHS does have are in fair shape, but that park is one hell of a mess. And then there is PI. Not to mention, besides cuts, entertainemnt has been ignored.

The only hotel changes have been DVC.

They added AoA which is definitely the nicer "value" resort, so I guess I'll label that positive, same with Fantasyland. HM got a good refurb. BTMRR left some things out bit was a decent job. But refurbishments are nothing we shouldn't expect.

WDW has spent more than DL. No doubt. But much of that is NextGen. A completely unnecessary effort. NextGen is the kind of thing you roll out when your parks have been well taken care of. Tap to pay, enhanced Fastpass, interactive queues, interactive elements in attractions, interactive games and other elements associated with NextGen are icing on the cake type of things. They are the extra mile things that have always made Disney different. But they mean nothing next to old and dilapidated attractions. I may not agree with the entire program regardless of when it was rolled out, but I would be more tolerant.

Has WDW spent more than DL? I'd say so. Which makes sense, considering there's a lot more to spend on. But the spending hasn't been on pace.

I pointed out some positives in this post. I hope you all can see I'm not all doom and gloom. I do believe WDW has made some right moves. Some things done with good intentions but were misguided. Some things were done with bad intentions. It can get better, and I'm now confident it will.

Quoted for truth, absolutely spot on. I don't think WDW is as bad as some do but I only visit once, sometimes twice, a year from the UK so the negative things aren't always as obvious to me as they are to those who visit regularly. From a personal standpoint I look forward to the day Iger steps aside; nothing against the man personally but since his days as Eisner's lieutenant I've found him devoid of any great sense of creativity which I, grudgingly, have to admit that Eisner had in abundance during the glory days of his time leading the Mouse House. Any kind of overhaul to DHS can only be a good thing so I'll wait with somewhat baited breath to see what (if anything) Disney come up with to fix the problems at that park. Hopefully we see similar improvements to Epcot and Downtown Disney and something aside from Pandora at AK to appease those of us who have no interest in anything to do with James Cameron or Avatar (I know that last point is not going to happen anytime soon but I can still dream ).

 

[DocMcHulk]

Good morning!
Did I miss anything?

Not a thing Lee. Go back to bed.

 

[COProgressFan]

You are partly right, JT. (Should I crack a one-liner about being partially sane too? I'll let y'all decide!)

The economy IS a huge factor in WDW's dismal numbers (they really don't want you to know how bad they are hurting and it covers so many things from DDP to merchandise to resort occupancy) ... but it isn't globally that is affecting WDW so badly. South American visitors have been up ... way up. European visitors are basically flat, but that's better than being down. So, ask yourself who isn't coming to WDW as much (or at all) and spending far less?

Yeah, it's all those Heartland folks from Ohio to New Jersey, from Tennessee to Rhode Island.

And with gas and food prices on the rise, one might surmise that things will get worse.

naturally, TDO's response is cutbacks, which only discourages more people from visiting.

I never understood the logic of "our product isn't selling well...so let's raise the price and make it crappier!" How is that going to bring back more guests/customers? What kind of ridiculous business plan is that?

 

[COProgressFan]

I know Disney has finally realized it is in a war. They figured this out only years too late, but at least they understand that Cindy's Pleasure Palace is under siege.

That just sounds so wrong...

 

[RSoxNo1]

Uni still only gets a tiny fraction of the numbers WDW parks get. Also Uni has very limited space for expansion unlike WDW. You are just painted in a corner with no way out. You have only yourself to blame. I am not saying Uni can not hurt Disney's bottom line because obviously they can. But in the long run only if the mouse stands still which only happens in cycles and then there is more investment. It is a pattern that never changes.

If Disney continues to rest on their laurels every park except MK could be passed in attendance by both Universal Studios and Islands of Adventure.

Also, does anyone else find it ironic that one of the main "fools and trolls" in this thread has the user name TigerBlood?

 

[IWant2GoNow]

Had 13 pages to catch up on after last night... Holy crap did this thing explode with negativity.

jt, I've read through your wars with '74 in the past enough to know you were never a fan of him telling it like it is concerning Disney's state of quality. You can try & take credit all you want, I don't think '74 cares. What you need to see is that '74 has come through with a positive thread topic off of some negative numbers & panic from Disney, mixed in with his own contact info. Take it for what it is... change coming; as you've been wanting (& saying) has been coming for years. No matter how you want to spin, shake, & twist the reasoning for why that is happening, it doesn't change that this should be a positive thread with only thoughts of grander things for WDW to come.

All the numbers look great in terms of TDO realizing something's not right. I enjoyed sweetpea's % breakdown post. I can't express how annoyed I would be if RSR came to the east coast in ANY form. We've heard of enough canned/shelved/BlueSky/postponed attractions from our insiders that there are PLENTY of exciting, unique concepts floating around WDI for them to pluck from the attraction tree when needed. They should not need to steal Radiator Springs thunder (or Lightning... KACHOW!) in order to revitalize DHS. All they need to do is go forward & greenlight the ever-loving hell out of all the things they've been coming up with over the years that whatever money-grubbing suit wouldn't throw money at.

If they don't respond with something new & even remotely close to "bar-raising" (not price-raising), then I fear for the state of innovation, & imagination left within TWDC. THAT would be the true failure IMO.

 

[Tiggerrules]

It wasn't their plan. At all. Pay no attention to the man below the tin foil hat.

I didn't really believe it was, just felt the need to point out that it makes no sense.

 

[Expo_Seeker40]

I'm not sure what is taking so long for other fanboys to realize and understand. Perhaps it's the pixie dust in their eyes. TDO is managing WDW to get by it's parks as the bare minimum. Just enough to get by. Fireworks shows over 10 years old. Parades that have recycled floats or getting parades from the 70s that are run into the ground. Refurbishing attractions, but not completely to the point where they have issues i.e. PoTC and the speakers and sound issues with CBJ after it's refurb let a lone the plethora of outdated and unkept attractions throughout the entire resort.

TDO gets people to come to WDW BECAUSE THE AVERAGE GUEST DOESN'T KNOW ANYTHING ABOUT WDW!

The average guest has gone either just a couple of times in their life or never. They feel socially and culturally obligated to go to WDW with their family or young children. They may not even want to go, they just "feel" obligated to go.

But as you raise prices and offer less fresh and new things and allow the classics to have botched refurbs or no refurbs at all, the locals and the faithful and the APers will start to notice and they have. No FL expansion and WDW becoming the las vegas of hotel rooms in O-Town will help keep them coming back except for the occasional sweatshirt mom.

 

[wm49rs]

Also, does anyone else find it ironic that one of the main "fools and trolls" in this thread has the user name TigerBlood?

Actually, I found it more ironic that half of his posts have disappeared since last night.....

 

[orky8]

Interesting interview at CNBC by Iger.

He repeatedly stated that consumers are driven to quality products, even in slow economies, noting DCL and the recent DCA expansion. As all of us have been screaming for years, if Disney invests in its product at WDW, it will pay dividends. The clear omission from everything of course is the flagship, Disney World, which is obviously not pulling its weight and, in fact, is dragging the numbers lower than they would otherwise be.

http://video.cnbc.com/gallery/?video=3000071984

 

[jmb2676]

I'm sure you don't either. Please name a company that does something that underhanded.

4 multi million dollar companies? Oh lord I don't know if I should laugh or cry. Do you see Hilton go after Hyatt Gold Passport members? Nope, do you see Hyatt go after Hilton Reward members? Nope, REAL multi million dollar businesses don't do that.

But I forgot you still think this report is bad...I can't argue with a person who thinks this report is bad when it shows growth and success in EVERY sector. Then again you also assume a couple people online means that all DVC members are dissatisfied which is wrong

Response to the bolded: Actually they do. I travel a fair amount for work and typically use Hilton for the rewards. I still get constant solicitaions from Hyatt and other hotel companies trying to win my business away from Hilton. Sometimes I even take them up on the offers if they are good enough. Everything's fair in business...

 

[PeoplemoverTTA]

BTW, saw a bartender catch a mouse behind the bar at a DELUXE hotel this week. Appropos of nothing...

In June, I watched a cockroach run across the counter while waiting for my food in Morocco. When I pointed it out to the CM, they talked over me then ran away after dumping my food off (which I did not eat). When I reported it to Guest Relations, they responded, "It's really not our fault, it's just nature." I am not kidding.

I love WDW, but I have witnessed the decline alongside all of you. The cockroach and its ridiculous "explanation" from guest relations (I just wanted the money back for my food, since I didn't eat it), to me, encapsulates the situation in Orlando right now.

 

[Scuttle]

Actually, I found it more ironic that half of his posts have disappeared since last night.....

Damn I'm late to the party once again! So I guess bull,pitchfork,avengers is now tigerblood?

 

[Taylor]

Damn I'm late to the party once again! So I guess bull,pitchfork,avengers is now tigerblood?

Dangit scuttle you always miss these things

 

[terp79]

This thread is simply amazing! Not really the bickering but the original post that started it all. While all the information thrown around in here is somewhat mind blowing and boggling at the same time, it's good to read and to know about it.

The original intent of the post IS indeed exciting but also scary all in one luscious flavor. It's actually nice to read something different and refreshing.

I can only hope that all this news leads to some serious sit-downs and discussion, reevaluating plans and focus, emphasis placed on the right things.

I don't recognize WDW anymore nor the path or direction it's heading which is sad to me. It's like an uncle i grew up with and then without seeing him in 10 years he rolls into the family reunion in a convertible with his year pierced and sporting an affliction shirt. Identity and midlife crisis'.

I only hope things will get better and no more sight-lines will be ruined.

 

[menamechris]

The original intent of the post IS indeed exciting but also scary all in one luscious flavor. It's actually nice to read something different and refreshing.

I can only hope that all this news leads to some serious sit-downs and discussion, reevaluating plans and focus, emphasis placed on the right things.

I agree. It's exciting because of the potential it presents for WDW. It is scary thinking about how the suits could still screw it up...

 

[disneyflush]

I was just reading an article on CNBC that contains a transcript of an interview with Iger (not sure the rule on posting links but I will if its allowed) where he states the following:

"Disney has been increasing pricing at the parks and Iger said there’s still “room to increase pricing” further. He “views the environment with some degree of caution” but said he’s confident that the company will continue to have “price elasticity.” And despite higher prices, consumers are booking more rooms both at the theme parks and on the cruise ships, where occupancy is 94 percent."

That is so depressing to read on so many levels.