Disney gets on board with fast-train proposal

[EpcotServo]

It's that fact that has made it so easy for development to spread itself out so far and thin that would make a train system like this impractical. While I would like to see it built it would never get enough use to justify the cost.

one look deeper into Japan's Rail Lines will show you how un-impractical it is. A well run high speed train system isn't impossible, it's just that Americans love Cars WAY too much.

Commercials here tell kids they need to drive at 16, where in Japan, most ADULTS don't know how to drive-because guess what, YOU CAN GET to EVERYWHERE QUICKER by train, AND it's cheaper to use.
:lol: :dazzle:

I agree it's impossible, but only because we're too far gone this point, we'll never be able to break the stupid out of our system.
:lol:

 

[jt04]

one look deeper into Japan's Rail Lines will show you how un-impractical it is. A well run high speed train system isn't impossible, it's just that Americans love Cars WAY too much.

Commercials here tell kids they need to drive at 16, where in Japan, most ADULTS don't know how to drive-because guess what, YOU CAN GET to EVERYWHERE QUICKER by train, AND it's cheaper to use.
:lol: :dazzle:

I agree it's impossible, but only because we're too far gone this point, we'll never be able to break the stupid out of our system.
:lol:

Is this a parody?

Anyway, what this will do is allow thousands of tourists to use rail transport everyday and get many thousands of cars off I-4. Comparing Japanese transportation systems to those in the US is not possible. A rail system like this will be great. But that doesn't mean people will want or need to give up their automobiles. Why would that make sense in the US?

 

[s8film40]

one look deeper into Japan's Rail Lines will show you how un-impractical it is. A well run high speed train system isn't impossible, it's just that Americans love Cars WAY too much.

Commercials here tell kids they need to drive at 16, where in Japan, most ADULTS don't know how to drive-because guess what, YOU CAN GET to EVERYWHERE QUICKER by train, AND it's cheaper to use.
:lol: :dazzle:

I agree it's impossible, but only because we're too far gone this point, we'll never be able to break the stupid out of our system.
:lol:

It really has nothing at all to do with Americans love of cars. There just isn't the infrastructure to support it. New York city has one of the best public transit systems in the world. In order for this to work here they would need transit systems in each of the cities it will service at least close to what NYC has. Transit systems in the Orlando or Tampa area would need to cover an area each about 10 times larger than the New York city subways. They would need to build tens of thousands of miles of track, every other transit system in the world would pale in comparison to what would be needed to serve these areas. As it stands now the trains would be useless outside of use for tourist who are going to go to key areas. In order to get people to give up driving and use a transit system there has to be an advantage. If this trains system where here now and I wanted to use it to go to Tampa for example it likely wouldn't be practical even if I wanted to. Once dropped of in Tampa what then assuming my destination was even serviced by their transit system I would likely spend a few hours transferring buses and walking in the hot humid FL weather. The only people this will serve outside of tourist is people who would have otherwise been on buses, it won't take cars off the road.

 

[EpcotServo]

But that doesn't mean people will want or need to give up their automobiles. Why would that make sense in the US?

I dunno', maybe the fact that living off Cars is depleting a natural energy source, causing thousands of fatalities every day, and clogging up our environment with deadly toxins?
:lol:

Seriously, I'm not saying no more Cars...I'm just saying America has this wonderful flaw that back in the day we killed Public Transportation for Big Oil and Big Automotive, and lacked the basic competency to create any sort of large scale Public Metropolitan Transportation. We didn't lay groundwork for anything other than Cars, that's the problem.

Again, if one looks at the huge Ariel layouts of Japan's rail systems, and actually do the research on how to get where and how long it takes for the distance you travel, you'll feel a little ripped off like I do.

Simple designs, a main route provided by high speed trains, mid routes which take you too individual cities, then commuter lines within the cities.

All it takes is money, and quality planning...
:shrug:

Again, I'm agreeing with you guys that it's impossible. It's impossible not because of space or planning, just impossible because America A: Can't spend the money now, we missed out on the boat a LONG time ago, and B: Clean running Monorail and Peoplemover lines just aren't "Built Ford Tough".

:dazzle: :lol:

 

[jt04]

I dunno', maybe the fact that living off Cars is depleting a natural energy source, causing thousands of fatalities every day, and clogging up our environment with deadly toxins?
:lol:

Seriously, I'm not saying no more Cars...I'm just saying America has this wonderful flaw that back in the day we killed Public Transportation for Big Oil and Big Automotive, and lacked the basic competency to create any sort of large scale Public Metropolitan Transportation. We didn't lay groundwork for anything other than Cars, that's the problem.

Again, if one looks at the huge Ariel layouts of Japan's rail systems, and actually do the research on how to get where and how long it takes for the distance you travel, you'll feel a little ripped off like I do.

Simple designs, a main route provided by high speed trains, mid routes which take you too individual cities, then commuter lines within the cities.

All it takes is money, and quality planning...
:shrug:

Again, I'm agreeing with you guys that it's impossible. It's impossible not because of space or planning, just impossible because America A: Can't spend the money now, we missed out on the boat a LONG time ago, and B: Clean running Monorail and Peoplemover lines just aren't "Built Ford Tough".

:dazzle: :lol:

If Japan was as large and it's poulation as dispersed as ours then they would be just as much a "car culture" as the US, Germany etc. Having the freedom that a car provides is an awesome privilidge. And I for one, ain't giving up that freedom. No matter how much propaganda is cooked up against it.

Mass transit has it's place but the American car culture will never die.

 

[s8film40]

I'm all for public transit, but it has to meet or at least come close to the automobile.
For me to give up my car it has to:
• Service all locations
• Cost less or equivalent to driving
• Be as fast and efficient as driving with minimal transfers

Right now there isn't enough money on the planet to do this in just Florida let alone the whole country.

I think the vacuum sealed train proposed from NY to London is more likely to happen.

 

[WDW1974]

I'll believe this will happen when I see it ... I predict a greater chance of NASA getting us back to the moon or on to Mars in my lifetime.

 

[Ham]

Just bringing it back to the luggage debate for a minute, I could see them operating some luggage service even if it was a public train. That is pretty much what they do in Paris on the London-Paris Eurostar train, ok probably nowhere near as many people, but they check you in to the hotel on the train and the just drop your cases at the station and head off to the park.

If the projected 1 hour from the airport to WDW is correct that could allow people to get checked in on the train, or maybe even make that a premium service while everyone else gets bussed from a central hub

 

[jt04]

I'll believe this will happen when I see it ... I predict a greater chance of NASA getting us back to the moon or on to Mars in my lifetime.

This is as close to a "shovel ready" project as you will find. It will happen especially since Disney is on board.

There are few mass transit projects that can have a real impact on traffic etc and is as ready to go as this one. It will happen. And depending on how well it works, the South Florida leg could be added later. This project is a no-brainer if they are serious about all the "stimulus-carbon reduction-energy security" talk.

 

[JEANYLASER]

awesome! I hope this will goes through too!

 

[Heavy Metal]

Just saw this article in this morning edition of the Bradenton paper. Looks like the differance this time is that it would be constructed with Federal Stimulus money, sounds like a great plan to me! They really should add an expansion of this though to include Jacksonville...
Crist submits high-speed rail proposal



STAFF AND WIRE REPORT
TALLAHASSEE — Gov. Charlie Crist submitted Florida’s high-speed rail proposal for a Tampa-Orlando-Miami route to the federal government Friday.
Crist wrote that approval by the end of this year would result in a contract by 2010 to implement the Tampa-Orlando leg.
Planning also then could proceed for an extension to Miami with the full system up and running by 2017.

The federal government plans to spend $8 billion in stimulus money on high-speed rail projects but the competition is expected to be fierce.
Walt Disney World is putting its weight behind the project. Disney officials said this week they will support a stop at the Orange County Convention Center, as well as provide up to 50 acres of free land for a station.
Tampa-area transportation leaders also are supporting the bid, saying the proposed rail service will fit in their plans for creating a regional transportation system.
The Tampa Bay Area Regional Transportation Authority’s master plan calls for a network of trains, bus routes, highways and water taxis that would connect high-speed rail passengers to anywhere within the seven-county region, the agency said.

 

[marni1971]

Here we go again... I`ve an advert from 1990 saying it would open in 1997. Disney under Eisner managed to drag the project into the ground. Their `free land` back then was a swamp south of Epcot, with no links to the rest of WDW. On purpose. Disney don`t want stops at Uni, Uni would block it without their stop, Disney would block it if Uni has a stop and so on...

We`ll see.

 

[EPCOT Explorer]

one look deeper into Japan's Rail Lines will show you how un-impractical it is. A well run high speed train system isn't impossible, it's just that Americans love Cars WAY too much.

Commercials here tell kids they need to drive at 16, where in Japan, most ADULTS don't know how to drive-because guess what, YOU CAN GET to EVERYWHERE QUICKER by train, AND it's cheaper to use.
:lol: :dazzle:

I agree it's impossible, but only because we're too far gone this point, we'll never be able to break the stupid out of our system.
:lol:

I dunno', maybe the fact that living off Cars is depleting a natural energy source, causing thousands of fatalities every day, and clogging up our environment with deadly toxins?
:lol:

Seriously, I'm not saying no more Cars...I'm just saying America has this wonderful flaw that back in the day we killed Public Transportation for Big Oil and Big Automotive, and lacked the basic competency to create any sort of large scale Public Metropolitan Transportation. We didn't lay groundwork for anything other than Cars, that's the problem.

Again, if one looks at the huge Ariel layouts of Japan's rail systems, and actually do the research on how to get where and how long it takes for the distance you travel, you'll feel a little ripped off like I do.

Simple designs, a main route provided by high speed trains, mid routes which take you too individual cities, then commuter lines within the cities.

All it takes is money, and quality planning...
:shrug:

Again, I'm agreeing with you guys that it's impossible. It's impossible not because of space or planning, just impossible because America A: Can't spend the money now, we missed out on the boat a LONG time ago, and B: Clean running Monorail and Peoplemover lines just aren't "Built Ford Tough".

:dazzle: :lol:

You have NO idea how much I agree with these posts. Bravo, Servo.

I'll believe this will happen when I see it ... I predict a greater chance of NASA getting us back to the moon or on to Mars in my lifetime.

Something they SHOULD and better do.

 

[WDW1974]

This is as close to a "shovel ready" project as you will find. It will happen especially since Disney is on board.

There are few mass transit projects that can have a real impact on traffic etc and is as ready to go as this one. It will happen. And depending on how well it works, the South Florida leg could be added later. This project is a no-brainer if they are serious about all the "stimulus-carbon reduction-energy security" talk.

JT, I'm only likely to say this once in my life so enjoy, but I sincerely hope you are right.

I don't think you are. I think it will never happen, but I soooo hope to be wrong.

 

[jt04]

JT, I'm only likely to say this once in my life so enjoy, but I sincerely hope you are right.

I don't think you are. I think it will never happen, but I soooo hope to be wrong.

Well they have to spend all that stimulus money somewhere. So I look for a few high speed rail projects to get approved mainly to see if the public will use them in numbers that make economic sense. If so, private industry will jump in and many more projects will happen. California has plans as does Nevada and Florida. I think they all will happen and quickly. And we are talking months from now not years.

The Florida plan would be a great test and is really ideal and quite feasible.

 

[lazyboy97o]

If this is for a high speed rail operation, then multiple stops in the Orlando area is counter to the intent of the project. High speed rail projects go to select hubs which are fed by other means of transportation. This is exactly why the Disney offer has repeatedly been met with criticism. Disney wants to offer land for a Walt Disney World Station, not an Orlando Station. Having stations all over Orlando is a wasteful use of state funds.

 

[jt04]

If this is for a high speed rail operation, then multiple stops in the Orlando area is counter to the intent of the project. High speed rail projects go to select hubs which are fed by other means of transportation. This is exactly why the Disney offer has repeatedly been met with criticism. Disney wants to offer land for a Walt Disney World Station, not an Orlando Station. Having stations all over Orlando is a wasteful use of state funds.

I think the plan is for stops at MCO-Conv Center-Disney-Lakeland-Tampa.

Any other connections will be from these stations and not part of the high speed portion. For example a spur would probably be built from the Conv Center stop to Sea World. So coming from Tampa or MCO a visitor would only need to transfer once to be delivered right to Sea World's front door. Just one simple example.

 

[TP2000]

California has plans as does Nevada and Florida. I think they all will happen and quickly. And we are talking months from now not years.

The Florida plan would be a great test and is really ideal and quite feasible.

I happen to be a high-speed train buff, and have been following many of the proposed systems around the country for the past decade. Florida's concept is about fourth on the list of proposed systems, after California, Upper Midwest, and Seattle-Portland. But Florida is more than a decade away from seeing actual trains in motion.

California has had plans for high speed rail, and has already been spending hundreds of millions of dollars on an army of engineers and experts in a facility in Sacramento who have been fine tuning those plans for a decade. California voters approved a 9 Billion dollar bond measure last year to finally begin construction. The first leg will be from Anaheim to Los Angeles, scheduled to open in 2017. Last week, Governor Schwarzenneger handed in his formal application for an additional 4.7 Billion in funds from the Federal Government.

And that is only after 10 years of continuous planning, hundreds of millions of dollars in design work, strong and consistent political support, and a 9 Billion dollar bond measure passed by voters.

In comparison, Florida has had a poorly budgeted skeleton crew off and on that (when employed) has done only cursory planning, and no real design work on alignments, grades, selected technology, contractors, stations, etc. Political support for the project in Tallahassee has been under constant attack for a decade. And there is no Multi-Billion dollar bond measure yet approved by Florida voters (after the original plan was repealed by Florida voters in '04), which is funding needed to get the Feds to chip in some cash.

In short, Florida is about a decade behind California on the planning and funding timetable. 2017 is even a bit iffy for the Anaheim-LA opening segment here in SoCal.

But here's the YouTube fly-through video of the coming Anaheim ARTIC hub station for California High-Speed Rail, Metrolink trains, Surfliner trains, and the coming Anaheim Resort Fixed Guideway trains. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Yoqo1xSiBSc&NR=1 That's the type of thing that could come to Orlando, if Florida can get it's act together, and keep it together for at least another decade.

.

 

[lazyboy97o]

I think the plan is for stops at MCO-Conv Center-Disney-Lakeland-Tampa.

Any other connections will be from these stations and not part of the high speed portion. For example a spur would probably be built from the Conv Center stop to Sea World. So coming from Tampa or MCO a visitor would only need to transfer once to be delivered right to Sea World's front door. Just one simple example.

Which makes for trips of about 10-10-30-30 miles if they can get rather direct. There is also even less financial sense in building through Orlando. A station just outside town, where Walt Disney World comes into play, is a much better proposition as the land is already cleared and easier to acquire.

A high speed network, funded by the state is also going to have to be designed around at least the promise of more service. A single Orlando area station makes it easier for service to be extended to future cities within the state and potentially even out of state.

 

[harryk]

I happen to be a high-speed train buff, and have been following many of the proposed systems around the country for the past decade. Florida's concept is about fourth on the list of proposed systems, after California, Upper Midwest, and Seattle-Portland. But Florida is more than a decade away from seeing actual trains in motion.

California has had plans for high speed rail, and has already been spending hundreds of millions of dollars on an army of engineers and experts in a facility in Sacramento who have been fine tuning those plans for a decade. California voters approved a 9 Billion dollar bond measure last year to finally begin construction. The first leg will be from Anaheim to Los Angeles, scheduled to open in 2017. Last week, Governor Schwarzenneger handed in his formal application for an additional 4.7 Billion in funds from the Federal Government.

And that is only after 10 years of continuous planning, hundreds of millions of dollars in design work, strong and consistent political support, and a 9 Billion dollar bond measure passed by voters.

In comparison, Florida has had a poorly budgeted skeleton crew off and on that (when employed) has done only cursory planning, and no real design work on alignments, grades, selected technology, contractors, stations, etc. Political support for the project in Tallahassee has been under constant attack for a decade. And there is no Multi-Billion dollar bond measure yet approved by Florida voters (after the original plan was repealed by Florida voters in '04), which is funding needed to get the Feds to chip in some cash.

In short, Florida is about a decade behind California on the planning and funding timetable. 2017 is even a bit iffy for the Anaheim-LA opening segment here in SoCal.

But here's the YouTube fly-through video of the coming Anaheim ARTIC hub station for California High-Speed Rail, Metrolink trains, Surfliner trains, and the coming Anaheim Resort Fixed Guideway trains. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Yoqo1xSiBSc&NR=1 That's the type of thing that could come to Orlando, if Florida can get it's act together, and keep it together for at least another decade.

.

Why are they talking high-speed rail? Disney has touted MagLev for years from Orlando to WDW. They most likely have plans somewhere in their files. This would make more sense than having a system which relies on 'pollution generating' power on each train. Florida's flat land would be an ideal experiment on forward looking mag-lev. Where would the trains be built? Overseas as are many of out public transit vehicles? Mag-lev from Orlando to Tampa would be quiet, clean and high-speed. Imagine, no noisy tracks for a train to screech around on curves. Are the bridges on I-4 high enough for trains to pass under - or do they need to be raised?