Disney gets on board with fast-train proposal

[PhilharMagician]

On the other hand, if they do it right, it could really streamline things.

Imagine you've already had your train tickets sent to you in the mail. You arrive at the airport, and just hop on the train without having to wait in a long line for checking in for a Magical Express bus. Meanwhile, your luggage is loaded into a set aside section of the cargo area of the train. You arrive at Vacation Kingdom Central (or whatever) toodle on downstairs to the Resort check-in desk, which acts as a big front desk for all of Walt Disney World, get your Key to the World cards, and jump on the new personal rapid transit system to wherever you want to go first, and that's it. Your luggage would arrive at Central, and be loaded into cargo PRTs to be sent to your Resort and then on to your room. Each Resort would still have their Front Desks, but the load would be lifted some for them. And having a central Front Desk would have the advantage of making Resort changes much easier, if a Resort is overbooked or something.

That all sounds great, but how many trains an hour do you think will be departing on that line? Waiting for Magical Express and then getting to your resort is not more than 2 hours even at the busiest times that I am aware of and every time I have used DME it has been 45 minutes to 1 hour from plane arrival till I am checking in. Unless a train is sitting waiting and you get moveing right away, I cannot see you getting to your resort any faster than the system that is now in place.

Here we go again... I`ve an advert from 1990 saying it would open in 1997. Disney under Eisner managed to drag the project into the ground. Their `free land` back then was a swamp south of Epcot, with no links to the rest of WDW. On purpose. Disney don`t want stops at Uni, Uni would block it without their stop, Disney would block it if Uni has a stop and so on...

We`ll see.

Wouldn't the rail then have to head North first to hit Uni before dipping southward towards Disney? I didn't think Uni was really even in the path for the high speed, but I do remember all the back and forth fighting a few years ago.

 

[trr1]

is there a map of the purposed route to look at?

 

[lazyboy97o]

Just looking at some guesses, it appears that trip from airport to Disney is about the same in Florida as it is in France. A family of four (two adults and two children 4-11), going from Charles de Gaulle to Marne-la-Vallée will pay a minimum of $72.00 for economy class tickets. A taxi can be had for about the same price, if not a little cheaper. A taxi is not on a fixed schedule and will take the family straight to their hotel. The train operates on a fixed schedule and does not drop one off at the door. Even if Disney offers a baggage service, not every other hotel and park in the area is going to follow.

 

[WDW Vacationer]

is there a map of the purposed route to look at?

go to Florida Rail.org and click Rail Corridor on the side bar.

 

[EpcotServo]

THIS please!

 

[TP2000]

THIS please!

Don't I wish.

Realistically though, I think only three of those stripped down networks will come to fruition over the next 25 years, and California is far ahead of everyone else.

Florida needs to get a multi-billion bond measure approved by the voters before it can tap any of the Federal funds. Florida can apply all it wants, but to be seriously considered the good residents of the Sunshine State are going to need to pony up some of their own cash first with a bond measure on election day in November, 2010. California voters approved 9 Billion in bond money in 2008, not an easy feat in a tough recession, which makes California High Speed Rail the most eligible for the additional 4.7 Billion in Federal funds that Governor Schwarzenegger formally applied for last week.

The Great Pacific Northwest is on the opposite end of the country, but the Portland-Seattle system is a strong contender for the same dollars Florida is after. And Portland-Seattle already enjoys speedy Talgo tilt-train service multiple times per day between those two beautiful cities on the Cascades service, in a fleet of custom Spanish made Talgo trains, with tailfins no less! http://www.amtrakcascades.com/ (The bar car on those trains features Northwest microbrew beers, artisan Oregon cheese and wine, and fresh espresso. It's quite a luxurious and hip way to travel at high speed.)

The Pacific Northwesterners are ready to fight to upgrade themselves from high speed Talgo to higher speed TGV equipment. Florida only has the circa 1955 Silver Meteor and Silver Palm Amtrak service, and so a 120 MPH service would be a giant leap forward for them, if they can do it. But Florida needs to remember they aren't the only ones after Federal stimulus money, and they really need to get cracking ASAP on this plan if they are serious.

And we haven't even mentioned the Texans and their Houston-Dallas plan.

 

[EpcotServo]

And we haven't even mentioned the Texans and their Houston-Dallas plan.

A plan to genetically fuse the two cities into a massive glob of radioactive buildings and dirt forming an Atomic Monster rampaging through America?

 

[jt04]

Don't I wish.

Realistically though, I think only three of those stripped down networks will come to fruition over the next 25 years, and California is far ahead of everyone else.

Florida needs to get a multi-billion bond measure approved by the voters before it can tap any of the Federal funds. Florida can apply all it wants, but to be seriously considered the good residents of the Sunshine State are going to need to pony up some of their own cash first with a bond measure on election day in November, 2010. California voters approved 9 Billion in bond money in 2008, not an easy feat in a tough recession, which makes California High Speed Rail the most eligible for the additional 4.7 Billion in Federal funds that Governor Schwarzenegger formally applied for last week.

The Great Pacific Northwest is on the opposite end of the country, but the Portland-Seattle system is a strong contender for the same dollars Florida is after. And Portland-Seattle already enjoys speedy Talgo tilt-train service multiple times per day between those two beautiful cities on the Cascades service, in a fleet of custom Spanish made Talgo trains, with tailfins no less! http://www.amtrakcascades.com/ (The bar car on those trains features Northwest microbrew beers, artisan Oregon cheese and wine, and fresh espresso. It's quite a luxurious and hip way to travel at high speed.)

The Pacific Northwesterners are ready to fight to upgrade themselves from high speed Talgo to higher speed TGV equipment. Florida only has the circa 1955 Silver Meteor and Silver Palm Amtrak service, and so a 120 MPH service would be a giant leap forward for them, if they can do it. But Florida needs to remember they aren't the only ones after Federal stimulus money, and they really need to get cracking ASAP on this plan if they are serious.

And we haven't even mentioned the Texans and their Houston-Dallas plan.

Ahem....

http://hosted.ap.org/dynamic/stories/F/FL_XGR_SPECIAL_SESSION_FLOL-?SITE=FLTAM&SECTION=US

 

[TP2000]

Ahem....

http://hosted.ap.org/dynamic/stories/F/FL_XGR_SPECIAL_SESSION_FLOL-?SITE=FLTAM&SECTION=US

That's great, and shows a bit of political will (although it's really not that difficult of an issue yet because they aren't nearly to the stage where they need to take/buy private property and lay a route near communities).

But there's very, very little money there to play with, and none of it is dedicated to High Speed Rail. Here's the big dollar prize in this bill, and it's going to commuter rail instead... "Other provisions would create two new state entities to plan and oversee passenger rail systems across Florida and shift $60 million to rail projects from other transportation spending starting in 2014."

60 Million bucks, to be shared by other commuter rail plans in South Florida. 60 Million won't get you anywhere near a high speed system, although it might add some commuter tracks and spruce up some park-n-ride lots around Miami.

Florida will need Billions to work with here to get statewide High Speed Rail going. California passed a 9 Billion Dollar bond measure last year, as starter seed money to get the system going from Anaheim to Los Angeles and into the San Joaquin Valley. California is going after a few Billion more from the Feds due to the fact that we've already got 9 Billion to play with now. The full California plan has a price tag of 40 Billion, and we'll need another Multi-Billion bond measure passed later in this decade to build out the full system from San Francisco to San Diego.

Florida won't get Federal Billions until Floridians cough up at least a few Billion of their own tax dollars dedicated specifically to High Speed Rail. The Feds don't fund mega-systems like this, they merely subsidize them a bit. Floridians will need to put a Multi-Billion Dollar bond measure on the ballot in 2010 and hope it passes before they get a few extra Billion from Washington DC.

This is not an easy road to travel, and it took California two decades to get this far. Florida has a long, long way to go and Billions of dollars to come up with.

 

[jt04]

That's great, and shows a bit of political will (although it's really not that difficult of an issue yet because they aren't nearly to the stage where they need to take/buy private property and lay a route near communities).

But there's very, very little money there to play with, and none of it is dedicated to High Speed Rail. Here's the big dollar prize in this bill, and it's going to commuter rail instead... "Other provisions would create two new state entities to plan and oversee passenger rail systems across Florida and shift $60 million to rail projects from other transportation spending starting in 2014."

60 Million bucks, to be shared by other commuter rail plans in South Florida. 60 Million won't get you anywhere near a high speed system, although it might add some commuter tracks and spruce up some park-n-ride lots around Miami.

Florida will need Billions to work with here to get statewide High Speed Rail going. California passed a 9 Billion Dollar bond measure last year, as starter seed money to get the system going from Anaheim to Los Angeles and into the San Joaquin Valley. California is going after a few Billion more from the Feds due to the fact that we've already got 9 Billion to play with now. The full California plan has a price tag of 40 Billion, and we'll need another Multi-Billion bond measure passed later in this decade to build out the full system from San Francisco to San Diego.

Florida won't get Federal Billions until Floridians cough up at least a few Billion of their own tax dollars dedicated specifically to High Speed Rail. The Feds don't fund mega-systems like this, they merely subsidize them a bit. Floridians will need to put a Multi-Billion Dollar bond measure on the ballot in 2010 and hope it passes before they get a few extra Billion from Washington DC.

This is not an easy road to travel, and it took California two decades to get this far. Florida has a long, long way to go and Billions of dollars to come up with.

I thought the right-of-way for the Tampa-Orlando line was already secured and construction was slated for 2014. I believe it meets the definition of "shovel ready" perfectly. Plus, in case you have forgotton, TWDC is also committed to the project. We'll see.

 

[Exprcoofto]

I thought the right-of-way for the Tampa-Orlando line was already secured and construction was slated for 2014. I believe it meets the definition of "shovel ready" perfectly. Plus, in case you have forgotton, TWDC is also committed to the project. We'll see.

Orlando to Tampa construction begins October 2011 with an opening date in October 2014.

http://www.floridahighspeedrail.org/Next_Steps.html

The recently approved project is for the Sun Rail, a commuter rail throughout the Orlando area, not the speed rail.

 

[jt04]

Orlando to Tampa construction begins October 2011 with an opening date in October 2014.

http://www.floridahighspeedrail.org/Next_Steps.html

The recently approved project is for the Sun Rail, a commuter rail throughout the Orlando area, not the speed rail.

So are you saying the state of Florida has previously committed funds to the Tampa to Orlando project?

 

[Heavy Metal]

I'm VERY happy about this! I'm sure there are many more hurdles to go through, but looks like this project is closer then ever, maybe Florida will finally get it's act together...

 

[PhilharMagician]

That's great, and shows a bit of political will (although it's really not that difficult of an issue yet because they aren't nearly to the stage where they need to take/buy private property and lay a route near communities).

But there's very, very little money there to play with, and none of it is dedicated to High Speed Rail. Here's the big dollar prize in this bill, and it's going to commuter rail instead... "Other provisions would create two new state entities to plan and oversee passenger rail systems across Florida and shift $60 million to rail projects from other transportation spending starting in 2014."

60 Million bucks, to be shared by other commuter rail plans in South Florida. 60 Million won't get you anywhere near a high speed system, although it might add some commuter tracks and spruce up some park-n-ride lots around Miami.

Florida will need Billions to work with here to get statewide High Speed Rail going. California passed a 9 Billion Dollar bond measure last year, as starter seed money to get the system going from Anaheim to Los Angeles and into the San Joaquin Valley. California is going after a few Billion more from the Feds due to the fact that we've already got 9 Billion to play with now. The full California plan has a price tag of 40 Billion, and we'll need another Multi-Billion bond measure passed later in this decade to build out the full system from San Francisco to San Diego.

Florida won't get Federal Billions until Floridians cough up at least a few Billion of their own tax dollars dedicated specifically to High Speed Rail. The Feds don't fund mega-systems like this, they merely subsidize them a bit. Floridians will need to put a Multi-Billion Dollar bond measure on the ballot in 2010 and hope it passes before they get a few extra Billion from Washington DC.

This is not an easy road to travel, and it took California two decades to get this far. Florida has a long, long way to go and Billions of dollars to come up with.

Is that bond still active? California can't even pay it's state employees right now let alone invest Billions on top of Billions for high speed rail. I do believe Cali has a greater need for improved transport than FL, but the east coast from Boston down to below DC really needs help.

 

[jt04]

Is that bond still active? California can't even pay it's state employees right now let alone invest Billions on top of Billions for high speed rail. I do believe Cali has a greater need for improved transport than FL, but the east coast from Boston down to below DC really needs help.

I agree. I think Cali might have disqualified itself until it gets it's fiscal house in order. Why would the feds throw Cali a bunch of money when it is obvious they can't finish the project at this point.

 

[TP2000]

Orlando to Tampa construction begins October 2011 with an opening date in October 2014.

http://www.floridahighspeedrail.org/Next_Steps.html

The recently approved project is for the Sun Rail, a commuter rail throughout the Orlando area, not the speed rail.

Yes, the recent action on "rail" from Tallahassee is for commuter rail projects. Suburban stations and park n' ride lots mostly.

The only thing coming from Tallahassee about High Speed Rail are words. Words are very cheap for politicians to produce.

They also have a very amateurish and very vague website for Florida High Speed Rail that features... more words. There is one vague sketch of a train, a simple map, and lots of words. And some of those words have a "timeline" fabricated out of thin air that proposes construction starting in 2011 and finishing in 2014. It's all just words flowing forth from Tallahassee politicians who have no money to pay for any of this, and apparently not much money for their website either. http://www.floridahighspeedrail.org/

So who in Florida is spending the cash for this dedicated high speed railroad? Where are the Billions in money to build this? It's not all coming from the Feds, as the Feds will only "match" a small percentage of the funds needed once a state has ponied up the bulk of the cash.

Where's the money? No bond measure has been put on a ballot, much less been passed by Florida voters. If anyone in Florida thinks the Feds are going to build them a 4 Billion Dollar high speed rail line from Orlando to Tampa, they are mistaken.

.

 

[TP2000]

Is that bond still active? California can't even pay it's state employees right now let alone invest Billions on top of Billions for high speed rail. I do believe Cali has a greater need for improved transport than FL, but the east coast from Boston down to below DC really needs help.

It was a bond measure, overwhelmingly passed by voters a year ago. California sold the bonds in early '09, and the bonds were bought on the open bond market. 9 Billion in cash money from that bond sale has already been secured and is legally dedicated to the first leg of High Speed Rail from Anaheim to north of Los Angeles. The Federal money that California has already applied for will supplement the 9 Billion it already has secured.

A bond measure, and accompanying bond sale, has nothing to do with tax collection that funds other programs like state employee payrolls. California is suffering the brunt of the Great Recession, no doubt, and tax collections are way down this year and into next, which impact the ability to pay state workers month to month.

But the bond measure approved by voters is entirely separate.

 

[TP2000]

Just checked my email and found the latest update sent out today by the California High Speed Rail Authority, who emails out regular updates to Californians.

It's a statement from Anaheim Mayor Curt Pringle, who has always been very pro-Disneyland, and who just happens to be the Chairman of the California High Speed Rail Authority.

It seems Congress in DC gave California a nod in the latest Appropriations Bill as the California delegation continues to lobby the Federal Government heavily for as much of the stimulus money as it can get.

From today's update...

Statement From California High-Speed Rail Authority on Congressional Transportation Appropriations Bill

Anaheim Mayor Curt Pringle, Chairman of the California High-Speed Rail Authority, released the following statement this morning regarding Congress' consolidated FY 2010 Transportation, Housing And Urban Development Appropriations Bill:

"We applaud Congress for taking this important step toward an ongoing, annual commitment to fund the construction of a high-speed rail system throughout California. Building an effective, state-of-the-art high-speed rail system will require an ongoing national commitment, and we are confident that with President Obama's strong support of high-speed rail and the support of California's congressional delegation, we can take the steps necessary to create jobs, stimulate our economy, and improve transportation mobility not just in California but throughout the nation. In California, voters have already put their support behind high-speed rail - as have labor, business, and environmental groups.

If Florida wants a few Billion from the Feds to pay for their Tampa-Orlando bullet train, they need a powerful and well organized statewide organization like this working double-time on the Feds. And they needed it to start two years ago.

 

[jt04]

If Florida wants a few Billion from the Feds to pay for their Tampa-Orlando bullet train, they need a powerful and well organized statewide organization like this working double-time on the Feds. And they needed it to start two years ago.

Or Florida needs 25 very important electoral votes. Just a thought.

 

[lazyboy97o]

Or Florida needs 25 very important electoral votes. Just a thought.

To be able to exert political power, one needs to have political organization. TP2000 keeps outlining how the people of Florida are not that dedicated. No president is just going to promise funds to Florida alone as the rest of the country would not stand for it. The state also needs a means by which to lobby Congress, which needs to be convinced of the needs to spend Billions in Florida alone.