Death at Driving Experience

[raymusiccity]

Those cars are very hard to roll and on a track almost impossible. If I have the situation right he screwed up in the corner, spun, locked the brakes and just headed in the direction of the guard rail. Not his lucky day at all. He needed to get back on the gas but that's where a guy who doesn't really know how to drive just simply doesn't know what to do and his first thought is brake as hard as possible and hang on. Hit the grass at a high speed and no one can power out of that. I don't blame the driver. Most likely he was put into a situation way over his head or her head.

This stuff can be dangerous. You really shouldn't be able to go from an econo box car to a full on, top of the line even on a track with an instructor. That might not be the story but I have a feeling that's what was going on.

I know this stuff from experience, I have crashed some cars going faster or doing things I shouldn't have been. In my case I started off with cheap cars that could barely hit 100 MPH so my mistakes were on slow cars with cheap tires, learned a lot that way before you get to play with the faster cars.

Have to say it was really bad luck what happened. 5 foot forward or backwards and no problem at all except a banged up car.

It's way too early for any rush to judgement, but, you know they'll be scrutinizing every aspect of this crash.

A prime cause of the severity of the injuries might be the guardrail itself.

There has been a sub industry of attorneys handling nothing but guardrail litigation:

"Accident data indicates that 50 to 60% of all reported guardrail accidents result in an injury or a fatality. As a result many highway engineers believe that guardrails are actually a roadside hazard. A whistleblower lawsuit unsealed recently has proven these fears.".....

 

[peachykeen]

Driver's Facebook is full of people wishing him a happy birthday today. Must have been his present. And it looks like he posted a status about driving a Ferrari 458 earlier today. So sad. I've met the CM before.

 

[R W B]

Yes this is tragic but you know what you sign up for, even for instructors. I also don't know why so many people are against this track and this event, I personally think it's a great attraction! Its definitly sad this person lost their life today but accidents happen (I just buried a 29yr old friend Yesterday who was taken far too early in a freak accident).

To my knowledge this is the first death ever at this track and the previous worst accident happen in a professional IRL race which left the driver paralyzed, even the pros have accidents.

I attended the inaugural IRL Grand Prix of Louisiana today and idk how many cautions they had. I understand the argument some of you all have about the safety of the exotics which is no where near as close as the nascar but don't forget these are street legal cars and approved by the DOT.

Hopefully I'll be behind the wheel of one of these cars this summer, I'll post vids of so!

 

[flynnibus]

If the driver lost control, it could have spun, though I would more expect it to roll.

Tragic all the way around.

The cars slide in the field. You remove any curbs that would cause flips... As that is far more dangerous.

Tracks want runoff and gravel pits to allow cars to safely stop if they run off the track.

This barrier setup they had should not have been left that way given the tracks setup. There are always things you might hit... But obviously you try to minimize them

 

[flynnibus]

Or another accident from a different time. You can see, though, that they did hit some grass (more than likely wet) and it sped the car up and turned the car some (just like sliding on ice).

When you lose control in a high speed turn... You often end up on the inside of the turn as the car oversteers

Looks to me they lost it coming out of the high speed bank... Oversteers... Snaps back to the left and slides to the right into the infield

 

[AEfx]

Don't the extensive waivers prevent them from suing in that case? (I really have no idea...I know next to nothing about law and whatnot).

You can sign a piece of paper that says anything, and it's "helpful" in a lawsuit, but far from a binding document. It could be argued it was signed under duress, that the signer didn't fully understand the risks, someone was willfully negligent, or any of hundreds or thousands of different angles. These kinds of "throw in front of you" generic documents are especially flighty.

If the person is a CM, then it also can change things - even if you are a private citizen on your off time, if you are on your employer's property, other rules and interpretations can be applied depending on almost limitless factors.

In any case, of course, a very sad event - and hopefully no one is even thinking of a lawsuit until all the facts are investigated and known as best as possible.

 

[flynnibus]

I think it goes without saying that they should just go ahead and close the track now. No need to wait until August.

Pretty much a given. As much as no one wants the history to say 'closed because of a fatality' and have that dominate the fact it was to close anyway... I imagine they just close up shop now. Lesser of messes

 

[TP2000]

This is sad news. Somehow it makes it sadder to learn the person killed was a Disney Cast Member.

This "attraction" never sat well with me. It just seemed like a dangerous and unnecessary use of space for WDW, and it also seemed like something from the 1970's or 80's, rather than the Safety-Conscious 21st century. Putting tourists in very fast supercars for a price never seemed like a wise idea, but that's just me.

 

[wdwfan4ver]

It's way too early for any rush to judgement, but, you know they'll be scrutinizing every aspect of this crash.

A prime cause of the severity of the injuries might be the guardrail itself.

There has been a sub industry of attorneys handling nothing but guardrail litigation:

"Accident data indicates that 50 to 60% of all reported guardrail accidents result in an injury or a fatality. As a result many highway engineers believe that guardrails are actually a roadside hazard. A whistleblower lawsuit unsealed recently has proven these fears.".....

The guardrail itself is one of the reasons why I called the safety of the race antique. Guardrails on national touring oval race tracks have been going away.

 

[AEfx]

It hit CNN, and while I am annoyed anyway that whenever I try to read an article they insist on loading the video up, the coverage of this made me realize how much I blame the media for their part in what the ills of society are these days. Do they really need to hover low helicopters slowly over a crash scene, showing the spilled fluids (which could be vehicular or human, likely both). What benefit does it to for us to see that? Yes, report the news - and law enforcement should photograph everything for evidence - but the public just doesn't need to see the graphic details to understand the story. And this isn't just because it's Disney, though of course that "helps".

Yet people get all uppity over "Game of Thrones" being graphic, LOL - because dramatic storytelling fantasy directed at adults is bad, but the news just plastering any real life gore on repeat is perfectly acceptable...


Sorry, end of rant...

 

[WDW1974]

This is sad news. Somehow it makes it sadder to learn the person killed was a Disney Cast Member.

This "attraction" never sat well with me. It just seemed like a dangerous and unnecessary use of space for WDW, and it also seemed like something from the 1970's or 80's, rather than the Safety-Conscious 21st century. Putting tourists in very fast supercars for a price never seemed like a wise idea, but that's just me.

I'd agree. The track never should have been built where it was to start with. And once the pros pulled out, rightfully so, Disney needed to do something with it ... hence these experiences.

I'd never get into a plane and have someone fly who has never flown just because a pilot is sitting next to them.

I'd never get on a speedboat and let a novice pilot it just because an experienced boater was sitting next to them.

I'd never want to have a medical student conducting surgery on me just because a surgeon is in the room.

I won't go on. But I was surprised that Disney ever let an enterprise go on on their property that was/is so inherently dangerous. This is the company that placed sharp railings on bridges and walls, so people wouldn't sit on them and possibly fall off. How anyone thought this was a good fit for Disney boggles the mind.

Just sad and unnecessary.

 

[WDW1974]

It hit CNN, and while I am annoyed anyway that whenever I try to read an article they insist on loading the video up, the coverage of this made me realize how much I blame the media for their part in what the ills of society are these days. Do they really need to hover low helicopters slowly over a crash scene, showing the spilled fluids (which could be vehicular or human, likely both). What benefit does it to for us to see that? Yes, report the news - and law enforcement should photograph everything for evidence - but the public just doesn't need to see the graphic details to understand the story. And this isn't just because it's Disney, though of course that "helps".

Yet people get all uppity over "Game of Thrones" being graphic, LOL - because dramatic storytelling fantasy directed at adults is bad, but the news just plastering any real life gore on repeat is perfectly acceptable...


Sorry, end of rant...

Sometimes, I agree. Depends on the situation, I guess. Sometimes, people need to see everything.

Of course, then there is the issue of replaying it. I get that people needed to see the cop murder the guy in S.C. ... but did I have to see it two dozen times in an hour? No.

 

[AEfx]

Sometimes, I agree. Depends on the situation, I guess. Sometimes, people need to see everything.

Of course, then there is the issue of replaying it. I get that people needed to see the cop murder the guy in S.C. ... but did I have to see it two dozen times in an hour? No.

Without a doubt. There are times when it's necessary.

But something like this, it adds nothing to the quality of the news - no one understands it any better, the body isn't even cold yet and folks are able to see the wet ground where a guy just died on a loop. It fills an extra minute so they might keep the looky-loo a little longer instead of moving on to the real news. Not to mention that it might be nice to give the family a bit of time to contact who they need so most folks aren't finding out about it by turning on the TV and seeing a bloody accident site.

I'm really not that sensitive, it's not about personal delicate sensibilities - it doesn't personally offend me, it just is like really? How many thousands of bucks did they spend getting that footage? Is there not a story that is more important to cover, to send those resources to? It's a question I ask myself every day.

 

[wdwfan4ver]

This is sad news. Somehow it makes it sadder to learn the person killed was a Disney Cast Member.

This "attraction" never sat well with me. It just seemed like a dangerous and unnecessary use of space for WDW, and it also seemed like something from the 1970's or 80's, rather than the Safety-Conscious 21st century. Putting tourists in very fast supercars for a price never seemed like a wise idea, but that's just me.

I agree for this race track.

The "attraction" itself is safe depending on the race track and that is the problem with this race track. Walt Disney World Speedway from a safety standpoint is one of a local short track, not of a national tour series unlike a major of race tracks RPDE uses for their experience.

I checked on the website for RPDE, and a lot of those race tracks are safer than Walt Disney World Speedway is due to have stuff like Safer barriers, not guardrails.

 

[PhotoDave219]

Yes this is tragic but you know what you sign up for, even for instructors. I also don't know why so many people are against this track and this event, I personally think it's a great attraction! Its definitly sad this person lost their life today but accidents happen (I just buried a 29yr old friend Yesterday who was taken far too early in a freak accident).

To my knowledge this is the first death ever at this track and the previous worst accident happen in a professional IRL race which left the driver paralyzed, even the pros have accidents.

I attended the inaugural IRL Grand Prix of Louisiana today and idk how many cautions they had. I understand the argument some of you all have about the safety of the exotics which is no where near as close as the nascar but don't forget these are street legal cars and approved by the DOT.

Hopefully I'll be behind the wheel of one of these cars this summer, I'll post vids of so!

Sorry for your loss.

 

[PhotoDave219]

I'm not going to Monday morning Quarterback this.

Mostly because it serves no purpose right not and its very straight forward.

Person loses control of Lambo on a closed track, car hits guardrail, passenger dies. Any number of factors can contribute to the "Why did this happen" and it won't change the outcome. Dead is dead.

I'm very interested in what Disney will do with the racetrack in that I believe they'll just shut it down. They're scheduled to before the end of the FY; I can easily see them pulling the plug in the morning.

 

[Daniel Johnson]

Well, we'll just have to wait for more details, but from what I posted prior, it doesn't appear enough safety measures are in play for the exotic cars, considering the NASCAR end goes slightly faster and they have you in a firesuit and just about everything a NASCAR ride would entail.

Unfortunately, as you have already stated later in this thread, there was really no safety precaution that the car it's self could have had to keep this from happening. Its sad, this was Something I enjoyed doing at a couple race tracks... Always wanted to drive at wdw.
And, people saying the driver didn't know how to drive...I understand your arguments, but a high end sports car isn't a regular car. It takes fractions of a second to lose the car. It sucks all around. Thanks @PhotoDave219 for providing any info you get down the pipline from the highway patrol

 

[ItlngrlBella]

Sometimes, I agree. Depends on the situation, I guess. Sometimes, people need to see everything.

Of course, then there is the issue of replaying it. I get that people needed to see the cop murder the guy in S.C. ... but did I have to see it two dozen times in an hour? No.

We can agree on "it depends on the situation," but the question is when do you draw the line? When I was a teenager, my Uncle, a Lt. Chicago Fire Fighter, died in the line of duty - - two weeks before is retirement. Experiencing first-hand on how the media covered that, I've been swayed.

The last visual we have of my uncle is video of them putting him in an ambulance where he slightly raised his head and then died moments later.

Media called my Aunt incessantly at the house in the predawn hours just after the chaplain came to her house to notify her and the family he was killed - my father took phone off the hook. They rang the doorbell and one banged on the back door.

They filmed outside on the sidewalk for hours - my Aunt and cousins were prisoners in their own house. They wanted comment from the family.

The worst - some via zoom-lens and some standing nearby filmed my Aunt and my cousins' faces (his 5 children) as they sobbed during the CFD procession/final salute outside of the church. Totally unnecessary.

He died a heroic public servant, but his family deserved a private grieving process.

...the public does *NOT* need to see everything.

Again, prayers to those who experienced that tragic loss today.

I pray the media gives them room and respect to grieve properly and privately.

 

[WDW1974]

I guess we can agree on "it depends on the situation," but having my Uncle die as an active duty Chicago Fire Fighter and seeing how the media covered that, I've been swayed.

The last picture we have of my uncle is video of them putting him in an ambulance where he died moments later.

It's tragic that you lost your uncle. I don't know the circumstances, obviously, but when a firefighter or police officer dies in the call of duty usually the press wants a comment because the person died heroically. Not that it makes it any easier. The media has to balance attempting to get a comment with a grieving familiy's right to privacy and to be left alone in an awful time.

Back when I worked in journalism and was a young reporter, I wound up having to interview (or attempt to) a 16-year-old football player whose father died that afternoon suddenly and the kid was going to play for his team (and did). It was not easy. I simply went up to him as gently as I could (he was crying and I felt like tearing approaching him) and asked him if he'd mind talking -- his choice, yes or no. He was very emotional, but said he wanted to talk, much like he wanted to play in the game, for his biggest fan, his dad. I talked to him for 4-5 minutes tops and then told him how sorry I was for his loss and how brave I thought he was and walked away. It's not always easy, believe me. I got into my car and I just started crying, but I had a job to do and I did it. Respectfully and the right way, but I did it.

Media called my Aunt incessantly at the house in the predawn hours moments after the chaplain came to her house to notify her and the family he was killed - my father took phone off the hook. They banged on the door.

They filmed outside on the sidewalk for hours - my Aunt and kids were prisoners in their own house. They wanted comment from the family.

They had to have an off-duty policeman stand outside to ask media to respect the family and give them space.

The worst - they got into my Aunt and my cousins' faces (his 5 children ) as they sobbed during the CFD procession/final salute outside of the church.

...the public does NOT need to see everything.

Again, prayers to those families. I pray the media gives them room and respect to grieve.

That's awful. I really can't imagine why they would act in such a callous manner. You attempt to speak to the family and if they say no and request privacy, you respect that. I've never seen that myself, but I have heard similar tales. Often, a family will ask a friend or clergyman or neighbor to simply go out and give a one sentence reply basically asking for privacy and, most of the time, the media accepts that and moves on.

And, no, the public does not need to see everything.

With tonight's accident/incident, I have no idea whether the media went too far and, if so, who. If one TV station aired footage that went too far, I can't blame all of them. The CBS affiliate here in MIami ran it as the number 3 or 4 story and showed only footage of someone driving up World Drive and using a cellphone to capture video of the wall of the track. There was no accident footage whatsoever, let alone footage that lingered over the deceased. That said, this is a story that deserves coverage and showing some footage from the scene is fair.

 

[ItlngrlBella]

I wish the Chicago reporters who had covered my Uncle's death had just one ounce of respect and empathy that you had with that brave young man.

The circumstances of my Uncle's death - they were on a call for an apartment fire and he was holding a door open for his men. The upper floors and major part of the HVAC collapsed landed on him.

Their kids were mostly young and the eldest was in his early 20's. They did end up sending my Uncle's friend out to tell the media to respect the family's wishes and to give space and he spoke to the media in regards to my Uncle's character. Our family was too much in shock to release a statement because there were no words. It was just too much, and so close to his retirement.