Death at Driving Experience

[ford91exploder]

I'm wondering -

1. How many people will cancel their experiences now - after the tragic accident.

2. How much money will be lost trying to keep the thing "open" and "operating" until August.

If it's slated to close already, why not just close it now? That makes no sense and part of me feels like it's just bad form.

More people are killed by Buses and the World Drive intersection every year unfortunately,

We don't know what or why it happened perhaps the driver had a medical emergency and the crash was secondary to that. It's a tragedy either way but look at it like this at least they went out with experience of a lifetime not quietly dying by degrees in a hospital or nursing home.

 

[mousehockey37]

I'm wondering -

1. How many people will cancel their experiences now - after the tragic accident.

2. How much money will be lost trying to keep the thing "open" and "operating" until August.

If it's slated to close already, why not just close it now? That makes no sense and part of me feels like it's just bad form.

I'd have to imagine none will cancel (few at best). It was a freak accident that little details are known yet. I'm sure the exotic experience portion will undergo a change in path, so that they go in reverse and follow the typical stock car track set up (where the guard rail is not a protrusion). It's the easiest and safest fix to make going into business today. As for your 2nd question, that's not a question pertaining to Disney as it more pertains to the RPDE (both stock car and exotic car).

The stock cars themselves already are a reinforced steel roll cage with a body over it. The exotic cars are cars that were bought off the lot and put on the track (with possible minor modifications). I could see for exotic experiences elsewhere, that the cars be torn down, have a reinforced roll cage put in, then put the body back on. Sure, it's not the "same" lambo off the lot at that point, but when you're going to push the pedal down and open up the speeds, it's not the same lambo you'd drive on the street anyway.

 

[mousehockey37]

More people are killed by Buses and the World Drive intersection every year unfortunately,

We don't know what or why it happened perhaps the driver had a medical emergency and the crash was secondary to that. It's a tragedy either way but look at it like this at least they went out with experience of a lifetime not quietly dying by degrees in a hospital or nursing home.

The passenger was the professional driver CM.

 

[shipley731]

"And don't hold your breath on your med school example. At large teaching hospitals, residents -- who are students -- often times run an OR while the surgeon bounces between a couple rooms, checking in."

Technically, residents are physicians - they have medical degrees-, they are just in specialty training. I work as an education coordinator for a department in the UF College of Medicine. I don't work in a surgical specialty so I can't speak on how their services are run, but our inpatient wards are run by a team of two residents with an attending faculty member overseeing the team. We also have medical students (generally 3rd year students in their clerkships) that join the team as well. All that being said, their are certain things I don't want a resident or a medical student doing to me procedure wise.

When my husband had heart bypass surgery 7 years ago & we were meeting with the physician pre-op, the surgeon asked if we had any questions. Husband was still a little shell shocked & shook his head. I spoke up & asked if he had any cardio-thoracic fellows that would be assisting in the surgery. The physician turned to me & politely asked me what I did. (He saw my work badge.) I replied that I was a residency coordinator. He cracked a smile (the only time he did the whole appointment), and said no, he did not have any fellows at that time. I know physicians have to learn on someone, but Iearning how to do bypass surgery on my husband made me nervous.

 

[Nemo14]

"And don't hold your breath on your med school example. At large teaching hospitals, residents -- who are students -- often times run an OR while the surgeon bounces between a couple rooms, checking in."

Technically, residents are physicians - they have medical degrees-, they are just in specialty training. I work as an education coordinator for a department in the UF College of Medicine. I don't work in a surgical specialty so I can't speak on how their services are run, but our inpatient wards are run by a team of two residents with an attending faculty member overseeing the team. We also have medical students (generally 3rd year students in their clerkships) that join the team as well. All that being said, their are certain things I don't want a resident or a medical student doing to me procedure wise.

When my husband had heart bypass surgery 7 years ago & we were meeting with the physician pre-op, the surgeon asked if we had any questions. Husband was still a little shell shocked & shook his head. I spoke up & asked if he had any cardio-thoracic fellows that would be assisting in the surgery. The physician turned to me & politely asked me what I did. (He saw my work badge.) I replied that I was a residency coordinator. He cracked a smile (the only time he did the whole appointment), and said no, he did not have any fellows at that time. I know physicians have to learn on someone, but Iearning how to do bypass surgery on my husband made me nervous.

3 weeks before my wedding I had surgery for tumors that they suspected were the big C. At the time I was between health insurance plans so I had to go through a clinic. At the consultation they told me the surgery would be done by a resident, to which I blurted out "but I want a real doctor!!" The poor resident actually arranged to have a "real" doctor there too to appease me. We laugh about it now, and that resident went on to become my OB-GYN, but at the time I had visions of some first-year scalpel-waving med student with a "Surgery for Dummies" manual next to him in the OR.

 

[ford91exploder]

"And don't hold your breath on your med school example. At large teaching hospitals, residents -- who are students -- often times run an OR while the surgeon bounces between a couple rooms, checking in."

Technically, residents are physicians - they have medical degrees-, they are just in specialty training. I work as an education coordinator for a department in the UF College of Medicine. I don't work in a surgical specialty so I can't speak on how their services are run, but our inpatient wards are run by a team of two residents with an attending faculty member overseeing the team. We also have medical students (generally 3rd year students in their clerkships) that join the team as well. All that being said, their are certain things I don't want a resident or a medical student doing to me procedure wise.

When my husband had heart bypass surgery 7 years ago & we were meeting with the physician pre-op, the surgeon asked if we had any questions. Husband was still a little shell shocked & shook his head. I spoke up & asked if he had any cardio-thoracic fellows that would be assisting in the surgery. The physician turned to me & politely asked me what I did. (He saw my work badge.) I replied that I was a residency coordinator. He cracked a smile (the only time he did the whole appointment), and said no, he did not have any fellows at that time. I know physicians have to learn on someone, but Iearning how to do bypass surgery on my husband made me nervous.

You know the rule, Observe One, Do One Teach One - Yes lots of professors Nurses and MD's in extended family.

 

[wdisney9000]

Can we please stop with the over the top reactions about how dangerous the driving experience is? If it is so dangerous, why has RPDE never had a fatality in over a decade of operation at several race tracks? Somebody did die of a heart attack while driving once but that can't be blamed on the activity.

1974, your analogies are ridiculous. Everybody that drives a car is qualified to drive these cars, especially the exotics. They are street legal cars that anybody can buy (if you have enough money). Even in the NASCARs, you don't get to drive THAT fast and are limited to far less speed than the car or the track can handle.

I've done an exotic car experience where we drove on regular highways/roads. I can guarantee that I was going faster at some points than they let you drive on that track.

IMO, I think the danger for people is in the lack of experience in reacting to the car spinning out of control. Its hard enough in a regular car at normal speeds. In an exotic, lightweight car such as a Lamborghini, at high speeds, you would be lucky to walk away without injury. You cant prepare a person for that with just a few tips prior to getting in the drivers seat.

 

[ULPO46]

I'm wondering -

1. How many people will cancel their experiences now - after the tragic accident.

2. How much money will be lost trying to keep the thing "open" and "operating" until August.

If it's slated to close already, why not just close it now? That makes no sense and part of me feels like it's just bad form.

Because it is leased to RPDE. Theres a lot of legality involved. I am more than sure eventually it will be shut down.

 

[GrumpyFan]

Because it is leased to RPDE. Theres a lot of legality involved. I am more than sure eventually it will be shut down.

Right, there's more than likely a contract in place allowing them to operate. This operates on Disney property, much like the Swan/Dolphin and Downtown Disney Hotels or any shop at Disney Springs, so Disney can't just up and kick them out, unless there is some breach of contract terms. Also, Disney and the folks at Petty know full well the risks involved in this kind of operation, it is an unfortunate and potential aspect that comes with the territory of high speed thrills.

However, with that said, I would be surprised if there weren't some changes made to this after the investigation is done. I'm curious if OSHA or any other federal agency that oversees these kind of things has shown up yet?

 

[PhotoDave219]

So the FHP official report says the exact same thing they emailed last night. I dont see the point to posting the document with everyone's names on it. The narrative has not changed.

 

[R W B]

Sorry for your loss.

Thank you sir.

 

[DisneyCane]

IMO, I think the danger for people is in the lack of experience in reacting to the car spinning out of control. Its hard enough in a regular car at normal speeds. In an exotic, lightweight car such as a Lamborghini, at high speeds, you would be lucky to walk away without injury. You cant prepare a person for that with just a few tips prior to getting in the drivers seat.

Again, they aren't going THAT fast. The cars are capable of maintaining control at much higher speeds than they let you go. There is no reason for the car to ever spin out of control in the conditions they let you drive in. None of the pictures show evidence of spinning. Everything seems like he just drove straight into the guard rail.

We will wait for the report but most likely it was bad luck that caused the fatality. The car happened to hit the end of the guard rail and it seems to have impaled the vehicle (and the passenger). The driver only had minor injuries. Had he hit the side of the guard rail instead of the end they would have likely both only had minor injuries.

RPDE and the Exotic Experience are not overly risky activities. You are MUCH more likely to have a serious accident driving to Disney World than you are in either of those experiences. The over reactions in this thread are ridiculous. I would do both experiences tomorrow without a second thought.

 

[hanwill]

Question- does anyone know what is involved in the experience? I ask because I was leaving WDW yesterday through Western Way and then turning north on 429(?) to go home. About two miles up 429 we saw a long line of exotic cars (at least 20) driving south. They had these huge stickers on the side of the doors but it was too far away to read the sticker. Wondering if it was part of an experience there. The cars involved were lambroghinis, ferarris, porsches, etc...

 

[hokielutz]

Pure speculation here, but based on the pictures, the video, and the oddly placed access road, I'm wondering if the driver mistook the access road for the upcoming turn and tried to recover back to the track unsuccessfully. Tragic.

That was my thought.... but I will say I am not that familiar with the driving programs offered.... just what I've read online.

 

[CentralFLlife]

This was an incredibly preventable death, that guardrail should have never been in that position. This track was configured for a counter clockwise circuit, so that when going down the backstretch that guardrail was just that, a guardrail. Nothing on it was exposed and in a position to impale a car. But when running the circuit clockwise, that guardrail becomes a safety hazard. They should have never ran the circuit in the opposite direction it was designed for without making the necessary safety adjustments.

 

[flynnibus]

I'm wondering -

1. How many people will cancel their experiences now - after the tragic accident.

2. How much money will be lost trying to keep the thing "open" and "operating" until August.

If it's slated to close already, why not just close it now? That makes no sense and part of me feels like it's just bad form.

Everyone knows they may die each time they climb in their car to drive to work.. yet we still do it. Everyone who drives on a track day knows they could wreck their car.. or worse.. and they still do it. The experience includes an inherent risk that you are doing things at high velocities... there is a risk. I doubt most people would be altered a ton by this experience unless it came out the place was being mismanaged or run improperly.

 

[flynnibus]

Again, they aren't going THAT fast. The cars are capable of maintaining control at much higher speeds than they let you go. There is no reason for the car to ever spin out of control in the conditions they let you drive in. None of the pictures show evidence of spinning. Everything seems like he just drove straight into the guard rail.

Uterly false. Cars with this much power you can break the rear end free just by accelerating too hard in a straight line... on a roll even. Apply the power too much, or too soon in a turn... you oversteer and can spin. Carry too much speed into a turn.. you'll understeer and swing wide or snap oversteer trying to get back into the turn. RWD cars with tons of power are difficult for inexperienced drives to control because of their tendency to oversteer. The Lambo they use is a AWD car which helps, along with the computer stability control... but Lambos by choice are designed to be angry monsters - it's their calling card.

He couldn't drive straight into the guardrail and hit the passenger side. He was likely sliding to the right after sliding off the track to cause that kind of impact on the infield.

We will wait for the report but most likely it was bad luck that caused the fatality. The car happened to hit the end of the guard rail and it seems to have impaled the vehicle (and the passenger). The driver only had minor injuries

Well, bad luck in terms of where they impacted. Let's not forget Dale E died in a wreck no one thought twice about given the angle he hit the wall.. but it was enough in the right way at the right time to kill him. They didn't call that 'bad luck'. It wouldn't be 'bad luck' if the guy had kept control of the car. We don't know what caused him to lose control... if there were any failures or not.. but given the stereotypical elements we can see... it's a high probability that they simply oversteered, lost control, and slide into the infield.

 

[wdisney9000]

Again, they aren't going THAT fast. The cars are capable of maintaining control at much higher speeds than they let you go. There is no reason for the car to ever spin out of control in the conditions they let you drive in.

Youve go it all figured out. I suppose the people I know who have done it were all lying about the 100 mph+ they were reaching, not to mention the countless videos that show it as well.

I suppose the laws of physics cease to exist in your car since your under the impression that a vehicle wont spin out or over steer regardless of speed. Please tell the guy from My Cousin Vinny whose stove can cook magic grits in 5 minutes that I said hello. Obviously you live where he does.

 

[KCheatle]

Don't the extensive waivers prevent them from suing in that case? (I really have no idea...I know next to nothing about law and whatnot).

I mean, it's not like professional drivers in professional races never crash and die. I'm am 100% positive that in the waiver they sign, it says somewhere in there, "risk of fatality," or "event of death," or "you might die," or something along those lines. It's not like the guy got on it's a small world and the boat flipped and killed him, which would be beyond a freak accident. This is something that has a known reasonable risk involved.

Caveat - I'm a lawyer in Nebraska not Florida, and I have no idea what the waiver/release stated as far as releasing negligent conduct on the part of operator (owner) or the choice of law (i.e., you can say in your release that you want it to be governed by the law of a different state if you think that state's law is more favorable to your position). But, the general rule of thumb is that while releases for injuries related to recreational activities are enforceable (even if they attempt to release negligent conduct), the courts do disfavor them. So they will look for ambiguity in the release so that they can consider it void or construe it toward the participant. But, unless there is ambiguity or the injury sued for was caused by willful, wanton or grossly negligent conduct on operator's (owner's) part, they are considered enforceable.

 

[TheRabbit]

Caveat - I'm a lawyer in Nebraska not Florida, and I have no idea what the waiver/release stated as far as releasing negligent conduct on the part of operator (owner) or the choice of law (i.e., you can say in your release that you want it to be governed by the law of a different state if you think that state's law is more favorable to your position). But, the general rule of thumb is that while releases for injuries related to recreational activities are enforceable (even if they attempt to release negligent conduct), the courts do disfavor them. So they will look for ambiguity in the release so that they can consider it void or construe it toward the participant. But, unless there is ambiguity or the injury sued for was caused by willful, wanton or grossly negligent conduct on operator's (owner's) part, they are considered enforceable.

Wow, love the lawyer talk! But, it turns out that the guest who paid for the experience was the one driving when the accident occured, and I'm not sure that the professional driver in the passenger seat (his family) is going to/able to sue since this was his job and the risks were known. Then again, people sue for everything in this day and age.