Could it Be? (EO returning to EPCOT)

fyn

Member
I agree completely, and I think it's not so much the "memory of the attraction" replacing the reality of the attraction here. I think, and I know this has been a divisive issue around here so I won't go into depth, it's the reality of the performer being glossed over with his death. Obviously we can't go back in time two years, but I would bet that if we did and showed the general population an excerpt from this video about Michael Jackson as a space commander, most would have absolutely no interest in seeing it. Suddenly, however, the whole world is a Michael Jackson fan.

My point is that this doesn't have so much to do with people being nostalgic for Captain EO (although I'm sure there are plenty who are), I think it has to do with people being nostalgic for Michael Jackson. While Thriller, Billie Jean, etc., were a bit products of their time, they have still aged much better than Captain EO. I wonder what people who have never seen Captain EO (or haven't seen it in a long time) will think. I have showed several friends the videos on YouTube, and they've laughed for the duration, pointing out that it's one of the dumbest things they've ever seen. These people probably aren't representative of the general Disney-going population, but I think the point still stands.

I don't normally have a problem with nostalgia or with nostalgic aspects of WDW returning to the contemporary parks. I think Dreamfinder should return. I think the score to Tomorrow's Child would be fine on SpaceShip Earth. However, I limit my intake of nostalgia to nostalgia that is not self indulgent. Nostaliga merely for nostalgia's sake is dangerous because it implicitly concedes that we don't care if the parks improve--we're satisfied with old technology, old attractions, everything the way it was in 1971, 1982, 1994, or whatever year you thought Disney was at its pinnacle.

I disagree with that. I think nostalgia is only fine when it is embraced because there is a substantive quality to it that warrants retaining. With that retention should come improvements and refinements, adaptations to evolving standards of technology, and other such changes to make that nostalgia a representation of "the best possible" Disney.

There is no such quality in Captain EO as it will be returning. It's a dated attraction being brought back without any updates, and it's of poor quality (in many respects) by today's standards. Even after I get past the issues of bringing back a Michael Jackson attraction, that still doesn't sit well with me. The parks should be evolving, not stagnating or degrading. The rationale that "Honey I Shrunk the Audience sucks too" is not a legitimate rationale for bringing back EO. It's a cop out.

Like '74 did, I wanted to say that I largely (really, mostly!) agree with what you say here, but I think a key point is being lost, and I haven't really seen anyone tackle it. I re-watched Captain EO (Ok, I've watched it a few times) recently on YouTube to test my memory of the show. Was it good, like I had remembered, or was my own sense of nostalgia boosting up a mediocre attraction? The answer, for me at least, was a little bit of both. The show wasn't great. It was much cheesier than I had remembered, and some elements hadn't aged well (MJ's outfit, for example).

But, it did confirm a sneaking suspicion that had been bugging me while reading this thread. I don't think Captain Eo is an amazing, show. I think it's entertaining, but that doesn't really matter. What matter's in this specific context is: Is it better than Honey I Shrunk The Audience? And to that, I'd have to say: "Absolutely."

While elements of Captain Eo haven't aged well, the story is generically sci-fi enough to last. The music is bread and butter MJ, so that's fine. And the storyline, while not strong in any sense of the word, does try to illicit feelings like fear, hope, awe. That's more than I can say for HISTA. Moreover, I don't think any part of HISTA has aged well except for the gimmicky sections of the show.

You must all think I can't wait for Eo to return. Remarkably, that's not true. I don't know if its return would delay a refurb of Imagination, but if that's true, then I don't think Eo is worth it. As was pointed out by WDWFigment, and others, I too worry about nostalgic attractions becoming an unwanted trend. Really, my only point is that Eo may be, from a qualitative perspective, an upgrade. Of course that means that HISTA ended up being a regression, but I think that's true.

Interesting thought exercise for everyone, regardless of your position on the topic: If TDO announced that the original JII was returning, with a few updated effects, would the sentiment be the same?

Personally, I'd be torn. You?
 

WDW1974

Well-Known Member
You just summed it up beautifully, and made me realize what is behind that certain something that gives Disneyland such a totally different vibe than WDW ever has for me. Thanks for that!

The pictures of Tony Baxter out chatting and hanging out this morning with the Captain EO fans is also part of it. There are just so many powerful Disney execs that have such a genuine passion and warm affection for Disneyland, that they can just go out and hang with the fans waiting in line without need for a TelePrompter script and corporate "talking points" and personal assistants standing nearby with their water bottle. I'm looking at you Meg Crofton! :lol:

WDW too often seems corporate and canned, while Disneyland is warm and homey.

That's largely true.

But it wasn't always that way. In the 70s and 80s, WDW (even the MK, now simply a mass market characture of DL to quote a friend's wife) had a lot of that vibe.

What happened?

WDW entered the 1990s, massively expanded, began phasing out CMs and managers who had been there since opening and vastly increased the numbers of college kids, internationals and seniors (all who could be relied on to work long hours for very little pay and few real benefits) and LOCALS who had been fans started feeling left out of the equation ... many left Orlando and FLA because of all the newcomers who moved, others just got tired with Disney nickel and diming and keeping the product stale (when that wasn't the case before).

But the vibe goes down to the guests. DL guests seem there to have a good time. WDW guests seem there to see and do it all, spend mass quantities of money and somehow get their money's worth. Sometimes, if you're bored (something that often happens at MK for me) just stand in a spot and try and count how many smiles you see on folks in a given time (I always bet the under). It will usually be a very small number.

I don't see that at DL ... or for that matter at DLP and HKDL.

WDW is simply too big and too expensive and too spread out ... and now too stale too.

And that's why the vibe is different.
 

Mr.EPCOT

Active Member
Regardless of any other sentiment I've expressed in this thread, that sense of community at Disneyland is awesome. I cannot wait to experience Disneyland this summer for the first time. Great post.

First time! I'm so excited for you! You're going to love it! It'll be interesting to hear what you think of it once you get back.

Interesting thought exercise for everyone, regardless of your position on the topic: If TDO announced that the original JII was returning, with a few updated effects, would the sentiment be the same?

Personally, I'd be torn. You?

I'd be thrilled. In my mind, that's the one attraction at EPCOT Center that there isn't much debate about that it shouldn't have left. There wasn't anything particularly dated about it, and what there was could be easily updated, along with amazing new special effects. If it had never left and been plussed, it would have done great. That's not out of a sense of nostalgia, I just truly believe that's one of the very best rides that Imagineering has ever put out, and should have been kept around.
 

TinkerBell9988

Well-Known Member
First time! I'm so excited for you! You're going to love it! It'll be interesting to hear what you think of it once you get back.



I'd be thrilled. In my mind, that's the one attraction at EPCOT Center that there isn't much debate about that it shouldn't have left. There wasn't anything particularly dated about it, and what there was could be easily updated, along with amazing new special effects. If it had never left and been plussed, it would have done great. That's not out of a sense of nostalgia, I just truly believe that's one of the very best rides that Imagineering has ever put out, and should have been kept around.

I totally agree, 110%. :D
 

misterID

Well-Known Member
They need an entirely new ride system in there. Get rid of the theater show, get rid of the track system and build an attraction that's actually imaginative.

Ideally it could be celebrating imagineering where the pavilion and ride take you through past successes as well as future projects, but I'm not optimistic that the idea would actually happen.

More importantly, this would be a perfect venue for the trackless ride system - something that can seem out of control at parts and then reeled in when necessary, like human imagination/creativity.

As it stands right now, the pavilion is a black hole of creativity. It lacks the warmth of the original pavilion, and another bandaid solution is not the answer.

Great post. Totally agree.

When I read about Mystic Manor I instantly thought about what Imagination could be.
 

Disneyson 1

New Member
Evidently, TDA completely cheaped out on "EO". Hardly any effects were used other than the accursed moving floor of HISTA. No lasers, no starfield, not even smoke. I mean, it was for a limited run, so I guess that's O.K...

But, as we all know, when something is created by TDO, it's hardly ever a "limited run" if money is spent...
 

marni1971

Park History nut
Premium Member
Evidently, TDA completely cheaped out on "EO". Hardly any effects were used other than the accursed moving floor of HISTA. No lasers, no starfield, not even smoke. I mean, it was for a limited run, so I guess that's O.K...
CM previews didn`t have a lot of the physical effects working. They have already said though not all the original effects will be reinstated though.

Does that mean no disco ball for the Queens revival??
 

dxwwf3

Well-Known Member
Were people really expecting most of the in theater effects to be brought back? That's crazy to me. TDA did the right thing by brining it back and did the right thing, but not spending a ton on it.
 

the-reason14

Well-Known Member
How does increased foot traffic lead to a quicker refurb? It doesn't. More foot traffic leads to Disney leaving things as-is and fixing something else instead.

Well how does more foot traffic lead to a bad thing? Whether they refurbed imagination or not, thats not my point. Some people dont want it back because its "dated" but they seem to have no problem with msep coming back which is also dated and old. Why can WDW get that back for a "limited" time and not get EO back?
 

the-reason14

Well-Known Member
Temporary like the wand? Or maybe temporary like Mickey's Birthday Land?

Disney's definition of temporary is different from mine.

Disney would bring back Eo and then turn its attention elsewhere.

One is a film that could be installed overnight, and the other two are structures that took months to complete and will take months to come down. Its a film! And so what if it stayed awhile, anything is better than whats there now.
 

sponono88

Well-Known Member
Were people really expecting most of the in theater effects to be brought back? That's crazy to me. TDA did the right thing by brining it back and did the right thing, but not spending a ton on it.

I agree, I wasn't expecting the full theatre effects to return for this. it is a limited engagement after all - a tribute.

a video of the new intro for the show I found on Twitter

[youtube]eA9eCnwuZtk[/youtube]
 

EPCOT Explorer

New Member
I agree, I wasn't expecting the full theatre effects to return for this. it is a limited engagement after all - a tribute.

a video of the new intro for the show I found on Twitter

[youtube]eA9eCnwuZtk[/youtube]
:sohappy::sohappy::sohappy:


So. Friggen. Cool.


:D


I NEED to get to Disneyland. :eek:
 

aladdin2007

Well-Known Member
That's largely true.

But it wasn't always that way. In the 70s and 80s, WDW (even the MK, now simply a mass market characture of DL to quote a friend's wife) had a lot of that vibe.

What happened?

WDW entered the 1990s, massively expanded, began phasing out CMs and managers who had been there since opening and vastly increased the numbers of college kids, internationals and seniors (all who could be relied on to work long hours for very little pay and few real benefits) and LOCALS who had been fans started feeling left out of the equation ... many left Orlando and FLA because of all the newcomers who moved, others just got tired with Disney nickel and diming and keeping the product stale (when that wasn't the case before).

But the vibe goes down to the guests. DL guests seem there to have a good time. WDW guests seem there to see and do it all, spend mass quantities of money and somehow get their money's worth. Sometimes, if you're bored (something that often happens at MK for me) just stand in a spot and try and count how many smiles you see on folks in a given time (I always bet the under). It will usually be a very small number.

I don't see that at DL ... or for that matter at DLP and HKDL.

WDW is simply too big and too expensive and too spread out ... and now too stale too.

And that's why the vibe is different.

There is something to that. Especially at MK. I have never heard so many complaints recently as I have while in that park. Mainly about dining, people are down right angry when told everything is booked and there is nowhere to eat and they dont want the counter service spots becuase of how bad they are and what zoos they have become. (their words not mine) But when your standing around taking a break or whatever, the things you witness and overhear. The park is just way too small anymore for the amount of poeple packed into there everyday now. Hopefully the fantasyland expansion will help this, but its going to need way more dining the just one new resturant. This park has some major issues when it comes to space and eating. Yet unused spots are sitting there not being used like they should :brick:. The MK is suppose to be a happy place yet I have seen and heard way too many unhappy people in there lately. It feels like its become a cattle drive, shopping, dining, etc.
 

ryno1982

Active Member
I'm going to disagree with a lot of you about this sense of "community" or whatever in Disneyland vs. Walt Disney World. At WDW, I feel like everyone there is on vacation with their families just like I am. At Disneyland, it's a lot of locals, particularly teenagers, who are much ruder in general than the crowds in Florida. I don't get the sense of escapism, but rather the feeling that I'm going to a local park, which to them of course it is. That plus the fact that I generally dislike Southern California makes me prefer Walt Disney World even though almost everything about Disneyland is better than the Magic Kingdom.
 

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