Behavioral U-Turn Needed.. Quickly

[Patcheslee]

I am a male and had an experience in Orlando recently where I held a door open for a woman. She was irate and told me that she was completely capable. I mean she was so mad I think she could have hit me. The thing is, I actually open the door for all genders/races without thought. It is just something my parents taught me that became habitual. I tried to chalk it up to her just having a really bad day, but at the risk of sounding a wimp it actually hurt my feelings a little. I certainly wont forget it, but it will not stop me from opening doors in the future.

Edit: Sorry for the double post

Wow, personally I don't mind doors being opened but don't expect anyone to do it for me. Yes I'm perfectly capable but hey someone is being nice so appreciate it. The only time it would irk me is if someone obviously rushes ahead of me to open it, then it's a bit awkward.

 

[MagicRat]

There should be another option, “it’s the same it always was...”

I am 40 now and am fortunate enough to probably average two trips to the parks since I was 8. I was also taught how to treat others, how I would like to be treated.

The same amount of people offer seats to those needing now as they have done in the past. There is the same amount of people who cut others off now as they have done in the past.

What gets me is the ones on here that I have read complaining, while being inconsiderate at the same time. Well my family and I walked into the shop to get out of the rain while so and so used a table umbrella. Well I hope you were shopping also and not just taking up the intended sales space. Or the guy writing about people blocking the space of the paintings for sale meanwhile cussing in his post. I am sorry when did writing with expletives become proper?

Look, not too much has changed in this world. There are people who care about the world outside of them and people who don’t.

In 1999, I couldn’t believe that the table sitting next to my now wife and I was talking on a cell phone bragging about where they were eating. 20 years later that same person is on Facebook doing the same thing. In 1988 that same person didn’t have access to the phone but was equally as self absorbed he or she was just doing it differently.

Same thing, thirty years ago there was someone at the fireworks who walks in front of the family sitting there early as there is now.

 

[Gabe1]

Yup, and it was the overreaction that got that fountain blocked. Probably not your fault, not my fault, but, some reaction that wasn't reasonable was forced in motion. Did they use signage saying not to touch water? Probably not, because they didn't consider it a problem until people complained. So we get what we asked for. They certainly weren't going to pay a sentry to stand guard to stop the complaint, so we got a wall instead.

Sadly some people do not have common sense of boundaries. The right to do what they please where ever they please and we loose nice things. They need a sign to know right from wrong. There is also now a sign on the Mexico Pavilion thatnsays don’t climb. Of course there was a reaction from the fan community there also. But there wasn’t a sign that didn’t say don’t scale the building so of course guests should feel free to scale the Pavilion? Nope.

A Fountain is a Fountain. A swimming pool is a swimming pool. Playground equipment is playground equipment and Pavilions are no more playgrounds than fountains are swimming pools. Condoning the opposite in absence of a sign is like saying it is OK to take a swim in any body of water within the parks and common sense tells most guests and CMs not too.

When the little boy took a swim in the Imagination fountain it was not condoned for a lack of signage either. Not appropriate.

 

[Goofyernmost]

Hey, open the car door for me, pull out a chair for me, offer me a seat, and I will gladly say Thank You. But, I am from the generation where another person did not cuss in front of a woman. Really. I am grateful for any show of thoughtfulness and kindness. My husband does all of this (except the car door LOL), and has been looked at like he was scum for offering his seat or opening a door. Oh well............

Where do you people live? I have been doing that stuff for years and no one has either said anything to me or "looked at me like I was scum". Really all my life and I'm 70 years old and I was a 20 something right in the middle of the women's liberation movement, which, btw, was long over due and about to fire up again, so hold on it's going to be a bumpy ride.

I have been corrected when I haven't given my seat on a bus to a very able bodied woman who thought she should have it because she was female. I am old enough to have aches and pains that those young folks can't even begin to imagine. Someone in worse condition or older then I, will get that seat if there is no alternative. Here we have stats that indicate the women are going to outlive men by 8 years and overall as they age are physically stronger and healthier then their male counterparts, but, women should have special privilege? So buck up ladies, when you need to be treated special you will get it, otherwise it is just common courtesy to not let a door hit someone in the face, male or female.

 

[Andrew C]

Pool, fountain, or playground? Or all 3?!?

 

[LittleBuford]

Deference to women is not and has never been about them being weaker or inferior. Exactly the opposite is true.

Let's get biological for a second. The biological purpose of any organism, humans included, is propagation of the species, i.e. reproduction. This is true of oak trees, human beings, warthogs, earthworms, and mushrooms. Because humans have a relatively long in utero gestation period followed by a nursing period during which time the mother is infertile, the reproductive capacity for a human woman is limited to roughly one child every two years. Conversely, a man could father a new child every hour.

All that to say, women are biologically much more important than men. The impulse for men to protect them is not a cultural construct of the middle ages, it's biologically embedded in our DNA.

Given that the kinds of “deference” you’re referring to are not universal, I don’t think biology plays as much of a role as you’re assuming.

 

[OneofThree]

Given that the kinds of “deference” you’re referring to are not universal, I don’t think biology plays as much of a role as you’re assuming.

Right. Like the number of instances in nature where the male's life actually ends after insemination.

 

[LittleBuford]

Right. Like the number of instances in nature where the male's life actually ends after insemination.

If this is a joke, I don’t get it. I was referring to the fact that some of the ”chivalrous” practices under discussion here don’t happen in other cultures, which suggests that nurture rather than nature is the determining factor.

 

[OneofThree]

If this is a joke, I don’t get it. I was referring to the fact that some of the ”chivalrous” practices under discussion here don’t happen in other cultures, which suggests that nurture rather than nature is the determining factor.

It's true that some socities are "ahead" of the curve in actuating their fear of inherently masculine behavior.

 

[Minnesota disney fan]

Where do you people live? I have been doing that stuff for years and no one has either said anything to me or "looked at me like I was scum". Really all my life and I'm 70 years old and I was a 20 something right in the middle of the women's liberation movement, which, btw, was long over due and about to fire up again, so hold on it's going to be a bumpy ride.

I have been corrected when I haven't given my seat on a bus to a very able bodied woman who thought she should have it because she was female. I am old enough to have aches and pains that those young folks can't even begin to imagine. Someone in worse condition or older then I, will get that seat if there is no alternative. Here we have stats that indicate the women are going to outlive men by 8 years and overall as they age are physically stronger and healthier then their male counterparts, but, women should have special privilege? So buck up ladies, when you need to be treated special you will get it, otherwise it is just common courtesy to not let a door hit someone in the face, male or female.

Ah, Goofy, where do you live? LOL. These things did not happen all at once, of course. Some at Disney, some out and about different towns. Didn't happen every time, but enough times to give my husband pause. But he always opens doors and gives up his seat on the buses at WDW.
Of course we all have aches and pains. My husband just had major back surgery, and I finally convinced him to keep his seat on the buses at WDW this past March. He didn't feel right doing so, but he did it. It's just the way he is, and I love him for it.
Of course, most women are capable of standing or opening doors. That's not the point, Being polite and opening doors is being considerate of others. And I say others because we both open doors for others, men and women, and elderly So, don't try that "special treatment" stuff on me. You are barking up the wrong door, so to speak.

So the question is not whether one is capable or not, but one of common courtesy, IMO. This was addressed so eloquently by Geekza earlier.
I will continue to take the seats that are offered (and they are offered most of the time as I am "elderly" and disabled) at 69 y/y, and I will also thank those who hold the door for me and give up their seats.
So, have a nice day

Oh, I was also a 60's lady and know all about the 'women's movement"

 

[LittleBuford]

It's true that some socities are "ahead" of the curve in actuating their fear of inherently masculine behavior.

WDW is the last place on earth I’d characterise as inherently masculine, so perhaps it’s the perfect setting in which to move beyond such behaviours. The Disney princesses have come a long way since the days of the helpless Snow White; let’s take our lead from the likes of Belle and Elsa.

 

[OneofThree]

WDW is the last place on earth I’d characterise as inherently masculine, so perhaps it’s the perfect setting in which to move beyond such behaviours.

Science will own you at every corner my friend.

 

[LittleBuford]

Science will own you at every corner my friend.

Hey, I’m gay, so I guess I don’t have to worry about my inner biological caveman telling me I need to offer a young, able-bodied woman a seat in order to “protect” her.

 

[Chi84]

Where do you people live? I have been doing that stuff for years and no one has either said anything to me or "looked at me like I was scum". Really all my life and I'm 70 years old and I was a 20 something right in the middle of the women's liberation movement, which, btw, was long over due and about to fire up again, so hold on it's going to be a bumpy ride.

I have been corrected when I haven't given my seat on a bus to a very able bodied woman who thought she should have it because she was female. I am old enough to have aches and pains that those young folks can't even begin to imagine. Someone in worse condition or older then I, will get that seat if there is no alternative. Here we have stats that indicate the women are going to outlive men by 8 years and overall as they age are physically stronger and healthier then their male counterparts, but, women should have special privilege? So buck up ladies, when you need to be treated special you will get it, otherwise it is just common courtesy to not let a door hit someone in the face, male or female.

The Fairytale Kingdom of Misogynya

 

[Andrew C]

Hey, I’m gay, so I guess I don’t have to worry about my inner biological caveman telling me I need to offer a young, able-bodied woman a seat in order to “protect” her.

Rather have everyone’s inner biological caveman doing that instead of sexually harassing or assaulting women.

If i had a boy instead of two girls, I would definitely teach him to protect and defend women. Listen to that instinct from within to do so rather than trying turn it off. But hey, I’m old school I guess.

 

[Goofyernmost]

Rather have everyone’s inner biological caveman doing that instead of sexually harassing or assaulting women.

If i had a boy instead of two girls, I would definitely teach him to protect and defend women. Listen to that instinct from within to do so rather than trying turn it off. But hey, I’m old school I guess.

That should be a universal teaching to both male and female. Help out those in need regardless of gender, etc.

 

[Damon7777]

So basically what you're saying is that everyone, including guests and CM's should just keep their mouths shut......

Nope, I'm not saying that
......but what I am saying is maybe next time read more carefully.

 

[erasure fan1]

This thread makes me think of this.

 

[SteamboatJoe]

I learn a lot about the kind of parent I some day want to be (and don't want to be) when I am at Disney parks. Fortunately, my wife and I seem to be on the same page.

My dad worked in the restaurant business for 30 years starting in the early 80's and witnessed pretty much every bad parenting example you can imagine....kids coloring on the walls, damaging property, running into aisle ways causing employees to fall, doing something stupid and getting hurt. Because of this, and the fact that they wanted to raise decent people, he and my mom were very strict about how we acted in public. It was very clear that the world was not our playground. In my biased opinion, they did a good job of not only communicating what their expectations were but also communicating to us, in often an unpleasant tone that was quiet enough to not make a scene but stern enough to get the point across, when we clearly were not meeting said expectations.

 

[MickeyCB]

The bulk of the negative experiences/bad behaviors I have witnessed at Disney sadly seem to be with the parents in the 30-50 year range. This might be a generalization, but seems consistent with my observations. What I have not been able to separate is parents who are completely clueless with the ridiculous behaviors of their children (such as the little boy with his sword hacking the leaves off of the bushes as we waited for the boat at the MK dock), and the insane entitled ones of which their little darlings can do no wrong. It almost appears they are encouraged in this aggressive behavior. I do feel that sadly those kids are the ones who seem to get ahead in school etc. as they have a very high opinion/ are confident in themselves as a result of this type of parenting.

I posted this example in another section, (the Katie Bug thread). I observed a little boy 8 or so in the world of disney store, plowing into an ornament display and as I was saying something to him regarding being a little more careful, his mother came around the bend and told the little boy, don't worry honey, not everyone who comes to Disney is happy! Argh!

Another time I held back so a mother with a little boy could catch up to her family that was ahead of her in line on It's a Small World, she buzzes by, doesn't say thanks, and since I'm not too quiet, I said "you're welcome"! She turns to me, from far up the line, and says "I was going to thank you", in her very snooty I'm cool and you are scum voice.

Regarding the bus seat debate, we don't have public transportation where I live, but I felt the Disney buses were a great place to teach my kids manners (and yes chivalry). We started with the obvious elder, pregnant women etc. and then it became just who needs help? Don't be a bum and help them, male or female. One thing that makes me insane on a very crowded bus is the families that will allow their very small children to take up a seat instead of putting them on the adults lap and open up another seat. That makes me want to growl!

I am a female physician and have had to elbow my way into an environment that still has a primary male work force. I still feel there are great inequalities in my field, and I and my fellow female physicians have had to work hard to receive recognition, job/committee advancement, etc. As a result of those battles I feel strongly for female rights, advancements, etc. But, I see no reason that people can't be polite and hang on to some societal pleasantries that help separate us from the basic hunt, kill and eat of wild animals. I am ok with you holding a door for me, it is simply polite. I promise if I am there first I will hold it for you, male or female.