Behavioral U-Turn Needed.. Quickly

[Gabe1]

I learn a lot about the kind of parent I some day want to be (and don't want to be) when I am at Disney parks. Fortunately, my wife and I seem to be on the same page.

My dad worked in the restaurant business for 30 years starting in the early 80's and witnessed pretty much every bad parenting example you can imagine....kids coloring on the walls, damaging property, running into aisle ways causing employees to fall, doing something stupid and getting hurt. Because of this, and the fact that they wanted to raise decent people, he and my mom were very strict about how we acted in public. It was very clear that the world was not our playground. In my biased opinion, they did a good job of not only communicating what their expectations were but also communicating to us, in often an unpleasant tone that was quiet enough to not make a scene but stern enough to get the point across, when we clearly were not meeting said expectations.

Nicely said. Especially like this sentence.

By the way, I love your Avatar!!!

 

[Goofyernmost]

The bulk of the negative experiences/bad behaviors I have witnessed at Disney sadly seem to be with the parents in the 30-50 year range. This might be a generalization, but seems consistent with my observations. What I have not been able to separate is parents who are completely clueless with the ridiculous behaviors of their children (such as the little boy with his sword hacking the leaves off of the bushes as we waited for the boat at the MK dock), and the insane entitled ones of which their little darlings can do no wrong. It almost appears they are encouraged in this aggressive behavior. I do feel that sadly those kids are the ones who seem to get ahead in school etc. as they have a very high opinion/ are confident in themselves as a result of this type of parenting.

I posted this example in another section, (the Katie Bug thread). I observed a little boy 8 or so in the world of disney store, plowing into an ornament display and as I was saying something to him regarding being a little more careful, his mother came around the bend and told the little boy, don't worry honey, not everyone who comes to Disney is happy! Argh!

Another time I held back so a mother with a little boy could catch up to her family that was ahead of her in line on It's a Small World, she buzzes by, doesn't say thanks, and since I'm not too quiet, I said "you're welcome"! She turns to me, from far up the line, and says "I was going to thank you", in her very snooty I'm cool and you are scum voice.

Regarding the bus seat debate, we don't have public transportation where I live, but I felt the Disney buses were a great place to teach my kids manners (and yes chivalry). We started with the obvious elder, pregnant women etc. and then it became just who needs help? Don't be a bum and help them, male or female. One thing that makes me insane on a very crowded bus is the families that will allow their very small children to take up a seat instead of putting them on the adults lap and open up another seat. That makes me want to growl!

I am a female physician and have had to elbow my way into an environment that still has a primary male work force. I still feel there are great inequalities in my field, and I and my fellow female physicians have had to work hard to receive recognition, job/committee advancement, etc. As a result of those battles I feel strongly for female rights, advancements, etc. But, I see no reason that people can't be polite and hang on to some societal pleasantries that help separate us from the basic hunt, kill and eat of wild animals. I am ok with you holding a door for me, it is simply polite. I promise if I am there first I will hold it for you, male or female.

The best Doctors that I have ever had were female. I always request someone that isn't all wrapped up in themselves and really cares about my medical needs. I know men have a problem with that, but, apparently I am not nearly as insecure as the rest of them.

 

[LittleBuford]

Rather have everyone’s inner biological caveman doing that instead of sexually harassing or assaulting women.

If i had a boy instead of two girls, I would definitely teach him to protect and defend women. Listen to that instinct from within to do so rather than trying turn it off. But hey, I’m old school I guess.

First, the alternative to offering a woman a seat isn’t harassing or assaulting her.

Second, offering a woman a seat doesn’t equate with protecting her.

Third, if someone (regardless of gender) needs actual protection, of course they should receive it. But that is not what we are talking about here.

 

[Disney4family]

But a young woman should also be willing to give up her seat for a pregnant woman, an old person (not me - I'm not old enough yet!) or anyone else who would have difficulty standing . That's true equality, and just plain being polite and considerate as we all should be, male or female.

On our recent trip to WDW, a young woman gave up her seat for my 80 year old mom. There were many men there of all ages who just sat.

 

[zurgandfriend]

My Further observations on manners.
Recently I underwent knee replacement surgery. Walking with a cane was a real revelation to me as to people and manners.
Handy capped parking was usually full, I observed people parking in handy capped spots and walking into buildings with no apparent disability. I usually joked that they have incurable tennis elbow or inoperable acne.
People were always in a hurry. They did not stop as I approached the cross walk, it amazes me that people get into a 2 ton vehicle get it moving and then use their cell phone totally distracted.
Getting onto escalators/elevators etc. people would rush pass to get a head of me, it seems like they did not want to wait 5 seconds for me. You could say people were in a hurry for work or school but the rudest people I ran into were old people in the supermarket. They pushed past me, and they were discourteous and impatient. More than once I said “why are you in a hurry you’re retired.” I also said you were not in a hurry to get in front of me onto the plane to Vietnam, but I digress.
Some people held doors for me, and I thanked them, others did not as if they got extra points for letting it go in my face. The same with people walking some moved aside to let me pass others wanted to play chicken as to who would move first. I held doors for people and usually got a thank you but I did get a couple of scowls from women and after a while, I stopped playing chicken and let people walk into the end of my cane.
Once while waiting at the orthopedic surgeon there were two children about age 10 to 12, old enough to know better, running around between all the people with casts on, using walkers etc. One women stopped them and said they should not run around as they might hurt someone. She got a very sarcastic “we are not allowed to talk to strangers” for an answer. The next time they ran by her I saw her stick out her cane and trip the little jerk. There was a round of applause and finally their mother made them sit-down.
These are some of my observations take for them what you will. People do seem to be less mannered and have a sense of entitlement it might be a sign of the times. Maybe we need as George H Bush said a kinder gentler America. Maybe I am just getting old.

 

[LauraRose]

People with no manners are the WORST. I remember waking through magic kingdom at Liberty Square and a girl was with her grandad (I’m presuming) and he was in a scooter. She was screaming in people’s face ‘jeez why can’t ya’ll move out the way can you see he’s trying to get past’ .

A few days later I seen the SAME man in the SAME location and he was cursing at people walking in front of him. It was a super busy day like when your shoulder to shoulder with people. I don’t really know what they expected, apparently they wanted people to separate into two sides and roll out a red carpet for him. If I see anyone in a scooter/wheelchair I will always move as do most people. But some situations if there’s nowhere for you to move to, what can you do?

Don’t even get me started when it comes to collecting your photo from the end of a ride. Everest is a war zone.

 

[John park hopper]

Welcome home

My Further observations on manners.
Recently I underwent knee replacement surgery. Walking with a cane was a real revelation to me as to people and manners.
Handy capped parking was usually full, I observed people parking in handy capped spots and walking into buildings with no apparent disability. I usually joked that they have incurable tennis elbow or inoperable acne.
People were always in a hurry. They did not stop as I approached the cross walk, it amazes me that people get into a 2 ton vehicle get it moving and then use their cell phone totally distracted.
Getting onto escalators/elevators etc. people would rush pass to get a head of me, it seems like they did not want to wait 5 seconds for me. You could say people were in a hurry for work or school but the rudest people I ran into were old people in the supermarket. They pushed past me, and they were discourteous and impatient. More than once I said “why are you in a hurry you’re retired.” I also said you were not in a hurry to get in front of me onto the plane to Vietnam, but I digress.
Some people held doors for me, and I thanked them, others did not as if they got extra points for letting it go in my face. The same with people walking some moved aside to let me pass others wanted to play chicken as to who would move first. I held doors for people and usually got a thank you but I did get a couple of scowls from women and after a while, I stopped playing chicken and let people walk into the end of my cane.
Once wait waiting at the orthopedic surgeon there were two children about age 10 to 12, old enough to know better, running around between all the people in casts on, using walkers etc. One women stopped them and said they should not run around as they might hurt someone. She got a very sarcastic “we are allowed to talk to strangers” for an answer. The next time they ran by her I saw, stick out her cane and trip the little jerk. There was a round of applause and finally their mother made them sit-down.
These are some of my observations take for them what you will. People do seem to be less mannered and have a sense of entitlement it might be a sign of the times. Maybe we need as George H Bush said a kinder gentler America. Maybe I am just getting old.

Welcome home brother. We are of the same age-- bad knees and just getting old--loved your post

 

[Andrew C]

First, the alternative to offering a woman a seat isn’t harassing or assaulting her.

Second, offering a woman a seat doesn’t equate with protecting her.

Third, if someone (regardless of gender) needs actual protection, of course they should receive it. But that is not what we are talking about here.

My point is only that treating all masculinity as bad has unintended consequences. Such as less men willing to use their masculinity to help/protect/defend others, particularly women.

Or give up a seat.

 

[pezgirlroy]

A side note but when I was pregnant and using public transportation in a major city, the people who would often offer me a seat would be young men under the age of 25 and women of all ages. Men over the age of 35 or so never would offer. Just an interesting thing I noticed.

 

[righttrack]

Its easy to see from what part of the country


Well where I come from everyone else is Sir or Mam, we say thank you, and we give up our seats to those who need them more because that how we were raised. Want to be embarrassed by your inaction? Ride a bus of veterans and watch people who have lost limbs, are older than your grandparents not hesitate to offer their seats.

I believe in courtesy, but it's a cultural difference.

 

[ThanksPhoenicians]

I know that when I offer a seat on the bus to--or hold a door for--a woman, I'm only doing it to show them how weak and inferior they are. You better watch out, weaklings, or I might just slip into full-on oppressor mode and pay for your coffee.

On a serious note: Are you kidding with this mentality? Are there really women that feel personally insulted by someone just trying to be polite? Equality movement or not, that is pure insanity.

 

[KBLovedDisney]

I know that when I offer a seat on the bus to--or hold a door for--a woman, I'm only doing it to show them how weak and inferior they are. You better watch out, weaklings, or I might just slip into full-on oppressor mode and pay for your coffee.

On a serious note: Are you kidding with this mentality? Are there really women that feel personally insulted by someone just trying to be polite? Equality movement or not, that is pure insanity.

Pay for my coffee and give me a cupcake! Show me how really weak I am!

Great, now I want a cupcake

 

[erasure fan1]

On a serious note: Are you kidding with this mentality? Are there really women that feel personally insulted by someone just trying to be polite? Equality movement or not, that is pure insanity.

Yes. I've had the I can get it myself snotty comment many times. And it has always baffled me.

 

[ThanksPhoenicians]

Yes. I've had the I can get it myself snotty comment many times. And it has always baffled me.

Blows my mind.

 

[KBLovedDisney]

Blows my mind.

It really is mind boggling that showing what you believe is respect toward others (whatever gender) can be taken as rudeness and then you get rude comments and actions in return.

Boggles the mind.

Totally off topic but ya wanna know what else boggles my mind? Not breaking the law or being rude to others, but this in turn gets me in the direct line of rude actions and comments

Case in point, at a stop sign this morning waiting on traffic to pass by and to give me enough space to pull out into traffic, and this person behind me decides to lay on their car horn because I'm apparently making them late for work because I am obeying traffic laws and being courteous to other drivers. This person then decides to ride my car tail the rest of the way to town...like that is going to make me drive any faster I think they need a behavioral U-turn

 

[Chi84]

Blows my mind.

In my experience, this is not a "thing." Obviously, I can't say it never happens - there are rude women out there. But when I hear the same man report that it has happened to him "many times," I begin to suspect there's more to the story than just multiple rude women.

 

[pvtim]

This thread reminds me of this

 

[ThanksPhoenicians]

I think they need a behavioral U-turn

Maybe even a literal U-turn

 

[ThanksPhoenicians]

In my experience, this is not a "thing." Obviously, I can't say it never happens - there are rude women out there. But when I hear the same man report that it has happened to him "many times," I begin to suspect there's more to the story than just multiple rude women.

I believe that it happens. And I do also understand the "I have a boyfriend" thing--creepers can be polite for nefarious reasons. It's just kind of a bummer that there need to be this many considerations paid by the person who's just trying to do the right thing by being nice to strangers. But like Martin said, this is society now.

 

[daisyduckie]

I get that to a point, thats why I said cast members and Disney. The company has to give the cast members the power to do more for sure.

I don't want the cast members to also be the manner police.