Behavioral U-Turn Needed.. Quickly

[Hockey89]

I just got back from an 8 day stay and the level of stupid is off the charts. I'm not sure how half these people handle day to day life...

 

[Hockey89]

I still believe that 99.9% of people at places like WDW know common courtesy and decency, otherwise you'd see chaos every day you were at a park. But the more people they squeeze in on a day, the greater likelihood of people doing some ridiculous things. And yeah I think part of it can be people who maybe this is a completely new thing for them possibly not knowing decorum in such a crowded place.

That said, it's still fun to hear these stories- so fire away- I'm sure I have plenty too, and the crazier the fireworks crowd gets, the greater likelihood of people violating social contacts of behavior.

From what I just saw at the parks, you could not be more wrong... It's about 20% can behave.... Don't stand in the middle of a walk way staring at your phone.... Don't stop in the middle of the walkway to stare at your phone.... I could go on all day

 

[Irie]

Not only have manners disappeared, but chivalry is dead.
At WDW, I regularly offer my seat on the bus to women and young children.
(I say at WDW because I do not use public transportation at home)
NEVER have I seen another man do this.

Same here for the most part. I won't say I never see another man other than me and my son offer a seat to a woman, but it RARELY happens. It used to bother me more than it does now. I finally realized that I can't change the world. I was raised one way, others were raised differently. Values and manners are subjective.

 

[Hockey89]

Not only have manners disappeared, but chivalry is dead.
At WDW, I regularly offer my seat on the bus to women and young children.
(I say at WDW because I do not use public transportation at home)
NEVER have I seen another man do this.

Same here for the most part. I won't say I never see another man other than me and my son offer a seat to a woman, but it RARELY happens. It used to bother me more than it does now. I finally realized that I can't change the world. I was raised one way, others were raised differently. Values and manners are subjective.

Do people really think it was not going to change with the feminist movement. I have been scolded by women for holding the door or trying to help with that bag... These are the consequences people... The world has changed so have women...

 

[KBLovedDisney]

Do people really think it was not going to change with the feminist movement. I have been scolded by women for holding the door or trying to help with that bag... These are the consequences people... The world has changed so have women...

Not all of us now My hubs and I are frequently referred to as "old souls" even though we are semi-young. I like the old ways of how the man opens the doors, carries the bags, comes to save the day type of thing. Yes, things weren't the greatest for us gals early on in the century and before then, but as much as things have changed I say we are in good standing...however others maybe taking that "we are equals" kind of thing rather far over the edge.

But, that's all I will say about that.

Ok, rant over. Carry on.

 

[The Mom]

I understand offering a seat to a woman (or anyone) with young children, but why to women in general? “Chivalry” and manners are not the same thing.

Exactly. The assumption that women are weaker often led to men treating them differently. Many women of my generation started making the decision that a man's reason for giving me a seat on the bus, holding the door for me, etc was not worth being denied employment because "it isn't a job for a woman."

BTW, I hold the door for the person behind me, man or woman. I don't need a man older than I giving me his seat on a bus - often he needs it more than I do - for now.

 

[KBLovedDisney]

Exactly. The assumption that women are weaker often led to men treating them differently. Many women of my generation started making the decision that a man's reason for giving me a seat on the bus, holding the door for me, etc was not worth being denied employment because "it isn't a job for a woman."

BTW, I hold the door for the person behind me, man or woman. I don't need a man older than I giving me his seat on a bus - often he needs it more than I do - for now.

I think it also may be how the person perceives the actions of others like say when a man is offering a seat to a woman. In most cases, it is (or it used to be) of polite society to offer a woman a seat because she is a woman and that was all, kind of like how they used to pull out a chair before she sits or open a car door for her. I don't think it always is a showing of weakness, but possibly sincere kindness.

But, one could only hope.

 

[Chi84]

Do people really think it was not going to change with the feminist movement. I have been scolded by women for holding the door or trying to help with that bag... These are the consequences people... The world has changed so have women...

I have seen this exact complaint written so many times, in virtually every discussion about politeness and good manners. Yet I have never encountered this apparent army of threatening women "scolds." Women are capable of being strong, competent and gracious all at the same time. Most are.

 

[LittleBuford]

The definitions are not the same, but I think they go "hand in hand"

There is an interesting read out there called "Rules For A Knight" by Ethan Hawke.
I recommend it.

Knights are for the Middle Ages.

I’m in full agreement with The Mom on this one.

 

[geekza]

I think we're still going through a cultural transition wherein we have a percentage of our society who were taught that it was good manners to give up your seat for a woman, open doors for them, etc. and who continue to do so with all the best intentions. We also have a growing portion of our society who are of the mind that, as @The Mom says, being offered a seat or an open door, solely because you're female, indicates a feeling of inferiority.

I was raised as one of the former, but have adapted to the social norms of the latter. I still open doors, but I do it for everyone. I will give up my seat, but only to someone whom I feel would benefit from being able to sit, rather than stand, and I always ask if they would like to sit down and don't take offense if they say no. I think the key is for both groups to understand the motive behind the actions. Calling out someone for doing what they feel is polite is rude. On the same hand, taking offense if someone declines taking advantage of your offer to give up a seat, etc. is just as bad. Somehow, we have allowed offense to overrule understanding. Intention is important.

 

[Goofyernmost]

Ahem......

A folley? I think what it does is put an exclamation point on the fact that the idea that it is a bad thing to do with the fountains is strictly social and not the intent of the builders. Who would know that better the Joe? It is a simple, if we don't want to do that, we don't do it. If others do... so what? It's not like we are going to drink the water and if it wasn't treated I cannot see how it is not completely algae covered by now.

 

[KBLovedDisney]

I think we're still going through a cultural transition wherein we have a percentage of our society who were taught that it was good manners to give up your seat for a woman, open doors for them, etc. and who continue to do so with all the best intentions. We also have a growing portion of our society who are of the mind that, as @The Mom says, being offered a seat or an open door, solely because you're female, indicates a feeling of inferiority.

I was raised as one of the former, but have adapted to the social norms of the latter. I still open doors, but I do it for everyone. I will give up my seat, but only to someone whom I feel would benefit from being able to sit, rather than stand, and I always ask if they would like to sit down and don't take offense if they say no. I think the key is for both groups to understand the motive behind the actions. Calling out someone for doing what they feel is polite is rude. On the same hand, taking offense if someone declines taking advantage of your offer to give up a seat, etc. is just as bad. Somehow, we have allowed offense to overrule understanding. Intention is important.

Well said.

 

[Goofyernmost]

I honestly would love to live where you do.

Me too! Right now we lead the world in rude, loud, obnoxious and stupid! Not a really good thing to be as far as I am concerned.

 

[Oddysey]

I still believe that 99.9% of people at places like WDW know common courtesy and decency, otherwise you'd see chaos every day you were at a park. But the more people they squeeze in on a day, the greater likelihood of people doing some ridiculous things. And yeah I think part of it can be people who maybe this is a completely new thing for them possibly not knowing decorum in such a crowded place.

That said, it's still fun to hear these stories- so fire away- I'm sure I have plenty too, and the crazier the fireworks crowd gets, the greater likelihood of people violating social contacts of behavior.

This is actually a very good point. Rudeness only becomes obvious when it is being exhibited, and is more memorable because it is outside of normal behavior. I am more likely to remember the 1 person who was acted in a rude manner versus 100 people who are going about their day in the parks civilly. Well said!

 

[Oddysey]

Not only have manners disappeared, but chivalry is dead.
At WDW, I regularly offer my seat on the bus to women and young children.
(I say at WDW because I do not use public transportation at home)
NEVER have I seen another man do this.

I am a male and had an experience in Orlando recently where I held a door open for a woman. She was irate and told me that she was completely capable. I mean she was so mad I think she could have hit me. The thing is, I actually open the door for all genders/races without thought. It is just something my parents taught me that became habitual. I tried to chalk it up to her just having a really bad day, but at the risk of sounding a wimp it actually hurt my feelings a little. I certainly wont forget it, but it will not stop me from opening doors in the future.

Edit: Sorry for the double post

 

[Ricky Spanish]

Do people really think it was not going to change with the feminist movement. I have been scolded by women for holding the door or trying to help with that bag... These are the consequences people... The world has changed so have women...

I have never been "scolded" for holding a door or offering my seat by anyone-woman or man.
I have been thanked, mostly by people who are 30ish and older.
No one has ever accused me of trying to "hit on them" when I pick up something they drop and hand it back to them.
And I don't think of women as weaker or not equal to men.
Maybe it's just what my Ma taught me.
"Treat everyone the way you want to be treated"

 

[KBLovedDisney]

I am a male and had an experience in Orlando recently where I held a door open for a woman. She was irate and told me that she was completely capable. I mean she was so mad I think she could have hit me. The thing is, I actually open the door for all genders/races without thought. It is just something my parents taught me that became habitual. I tried to chalk it up to her just having a really bad day, but at the risk of sounding a wimp it actually hurt my feelings a little. I certainly wont forget it, but it will not stop me from opening doors in the future.

Edit: Sorry for the double post

I got that reaction once when I said "yes ma'am" to a random lady when she was talking to me because that was how I was raised to show respect. An offense was not intended but she sure took it that way.

 

[Chi84]

I am a male and had an experience in Orlando recently where I held a door open for a woman. She was irate and told me that she was completely capable. I mean she was so mad I think she could have hit me. The thing is, I actually open the door for all genders/races without thought. It is just something my parents taught me that became habitual. I tried to chalk it up to her just having a really bad day, but at the risk of sounding a wimp it actually hurt my feelings a little. I certainly wont forget it, but it will not stop me from opening doors in the future.

Edit: Sorry for the double post

Wow! It sounds like you had the bad luck to run into a real nutcase! I don't doubt that this kind of thing can happen, but not to the extent claimed. I suspect it is often said by insecure men (sometimes of a certain generation) to punish women for not being smart enough to know how good they had it when they knew their place. Not saying this is you, of course, but what you're describing is some extreme behavior. Rarely do people become angry enough to resort to violence as a reaction to good manners.

 

[Oddysey]

Wow! It sounds like you had the bad luck to run into a real nutcase! I don't doubt that this kind of thing can happen, but not to the extent claimed. I suspect it is often said by insecure men (sometimes of a certain generation) to punish women for not being smart enough to know how good they had it when they knew their place. Not saying this is you, of course, but what you're describing is some extreme behavior. Rarely do people become angry enough to resort to violence as a reaction to good manners.

I have opened doors countless times without issue and will continue too. My story is most definitely an outlier. Otherwise I wouldn't have shared the story. Lastly, judging by her reaction I really believe that she was having a really bad day, and I somehow ended up getting the brunt of it.

 

[PortOrleans]

The level of civility in American society IMO has decreased dramatically with each subsequent generation and WDW is just a reflection of that. Looking back at my old WDW pictures people definitely dressed differently; my last visit to WDW (some not all but enough) looked like they were dressed to do yard work. Not greatly significant just an observation. I was taught to say please and thank you. if I got out of hand there was heck to pay by my father. Acting up in a restaurant never entered my brother or my mind. This was passed on to my sons who are passing it on to their kids. Unfortunately there seems to be far to many for a lack of a better term fee range kids; parents turn a blind eye to bad behavior and are oblivious to their kids disturbing others be it at a restaurant, movie WDW etc. These same parents tend to behave like their kids which is not surprising. IMO it's the me first, I deserve it because I exist, I paid my money so I can do what I want, other people don't matter. Will this trend change not IMO. Having posted this I have meet incredibly polite children and parents at WDW.

I did notice that part about dressing. I know from personal experience that many parents still have standards for dressing in their households however it seems that others haven’t gotten the memo.