Behavioral U-Turn Needed.. Quickly

[PortOrleans]

Not only have manners disappeared, but chivalry is dead.
At WDW, I regularly offer my seat on the bus to women and young children.
(I say at WDW because I do not use public transportation at home)
NEVER have I seen another man do this.

I’ve seen young men (20-45) not bother to give their seat to pregnant and elderly women. That’s just unacceptable!

 

[networkpro]

It's not "inaction." It's what you are appropriately taught to do in NYC for safety reasons. You don't make eye contact in the subway or usually even walking on the street; and the only people talking to others they don't already know are either crazy, looking for handouts, or tourists.

At WDW, I'll offer my seat on a bus to old people, a pregnant woman, or someone with a child young enough they have to be held.

WDW isnt NYC thank goodness, you can adapt. Not exhibiting good manners in the South can be to your immediate detriment.

 

[The Mom]

I’ve seen young men (20-45) not bother to give their seat to pregnant and elderly women. That’s just unacceptable!

But a young woman should also be willing to give up her seat for a pregnant woman, an old person (not me - I'm not old enough yet!) or anyone else who would have difficulty standing . That's true equality, and just plain being polite and considerate as we all should be, male or female.

 

[NormC]

Not only have manners disappeared, but chivalry is dead.
At WDW, I regularly offer my seat on the bus to women and young children.
(I say at WDW because I do not use public transportation at home)
NEVER have I seen another man do this.

I always offer my seat to anyone that appears to need it more than I do. My daughters do as well.

 

[NormC]

One of the problems today is the misunderstanding of the meaning of respect. I have had people tell me that they do not have to treat people with respect until they earn it. That is backwards. You should treat everyone with respect until they do something to lose it. I think they are confusing respect with regard or esteem.

 

[PortOrleans]

But a young woman should also be willing to give up her seat for a pregnant woman, an old person (not me - I'm not old enough yet!) or anyone else who would have difficulty standing . That's true equality, and just plain being polite and considerate as we all should be, male or female.

You’re absolutely right!

 

[geekza]

You should treat everyone with respect until they do something to lose it.

You are absolutely correct!

 

[StarWarsGirl]

Not only have manners disappeared, but chivalry is dead.
At WDW, I regularly offer my seat on the bus to women and young children.
(I say at WDW because I do not use public transportation at home)
NEVER have I seen another man do this.

Really? Because I have men do this for me on a regular basis.

As well as other women.

I'm only five feet tall and tend to have trouble holding on. People notice me struggling and help.

Some people are just more polite than others.

 

[Paper straw fan]

I have seen that often on busses though. Normally at least once a trip when riding a crowded bus. I don't think less of people who don't get up, but yeah, it can be nice to see

And look, I don't mind that people look out for themselves, its just the people who decide their lives/time are more important than everyone else. The butter butter line cutters, people who nearly plow parking CM's ignoring their signals so they can double park their SUV up front, push everyone out of the way to get near the doors at HM/ToT, etc. Those people, man/woman/child, may not draw my ire openly, but I won't have much regard for their apparent rush to everything either when I box them out of rushing to cut 2 more people in line.

 

[Smiley/OCD]

That's all fine and dandy except it's nearly impossible to know the culture well enough to avoid all local social faux pas. I have traveled to a few countries, even lived in another for 3 years and I still was learning a few do's and don'ts.

Would a guide book really tell you about how standing/leaning against a wall while others are sitting even at a highly informal pool nighttime house party with kids running around, loud music and drinking to the level of puking might well make others feel uncomfortable and uneasy?? I know a country where you best not do that.

We really need to separate rude and inconsiderate behavior(intentional)vs those who truly didn't realize they were offending.

So basically what you're saying is that everyone, including guests and CM's should just keep their mouths shut and let the inmates run the asylum because HEY, they're from another country and they don't know any better...sorry, but if the shoe was on the other foot...

 

[Gabe1]

A folley? I think what it does is put an exclamation point on the fact that the idea that it is a bad thing to do with the fountains is strictly social and not the intent of the builders. Who would know that better the Joe? It is a simple, if we don't want to do that, we don't do it. If others do... so what? It's not like we are going to drink the water and if it wasn't treated I cannot see how it is not completely algae covered by now.

That fountain now has a 4 foot concrete wall around it. Parents encouraged their children to play in it. So now the beautiful fountain is gone. So yeah I care.

 

[Goofyernmost]

That fountain now has a 4 foot concrete wall around it. Parents encouraged their children to play in it. So now the beautiful fountain is gone. So yeah I care.

Yup, and it was the overreaction that got that fountain blocked. Probably not your fault, not my fault, but, some reaction that wasn't reasonable was forced in motion. Did they use signage saying not to touch water? Probably not, because they didn't consider it a problem until people complained. So we get what we asked for. They certainly weren't going to pay a sentry to stand guard to stop the complaint, so we got a wall instead.

 

[Smiley/OCD]

Do people really think it was not going to change with the feminist movement. I have been scolded by women for holding the door or trying to help with that bag... These are the consequences people... The world has changed so have women...

That's one can of worms I'm NOT opening...lol

 

[OneofThree]

I just got back from an 8 day stay and the level of stupid is off the charts. I'm not sure how half these people handle day to day life...

Cuz -'murica.

I'll just leave this here once again:

"It seems many American society want to grant the stupids with impunity to be stupid, as if being stupid is a form of artistic expression."

 

[Minnesota disney fan]

I think it also may be how the person perceives the actions of others like say when a man is offering a seat to a woman. In most cases, it is (or it used to be) of polite society to offer a woman a seat because she is a woman and that was all, kind of like how they used to pull out a chair before she sits or open a car door for her. I don't think it always is a showing of weakness, but possibly sincere kindness.

But, one could only hope.

Hey, open the car door for me, pull out a chair for me, offer me a seat, and I will gladly say Thank You. But, I am from the generation where another person did not cuss in front of a woman. Really. I am grateful for any show of thoughtfulness and kindness. My husband does all of this (except the car door LOL), and has been looked at like he was scum for offering his seat or opening a door. Oh well............

 

[CaptainAmerica]

Exactly. The assumption that women are weaker often led to men treating them differently. Many women of my generation started making the decision that a man's reason for giving me a seat on the bus, holding the door for me, etc was not worth being denied employment because "it isn't a job for a woman."

BTW, I hold the door for the person behind me, man or woman. I don't need a man older than I giving me his seat on a bus - often he needs it more than I do - for now.

Deference to women is not and has never been about them being weaker or inferior. Exactly the opposite is true.

Let's get biological for a second. The biological purpose of any organism, humans included, is propagation of the species, i.e. reproduction. This is true of oak trees, human beings, warthogs, earthworms, and mushrooms. Because humans have a relatively long in utero gestation period followed by a nursing period during which time the mother is infertile, the reproductive capacity for a human woman is limited to roughly one child every two years. Conversely, a man could father a new child every hour.

All that to say, women are biologically much more important than men. The impulse for men to protect them is not a cultural construct of the middle ages, it's biologically embedded in our DNA.

 

[geekza]

All that to say, women are biologically much more important than men. The impulse for men to protect them is not a cultural construct of the middle ages, it's biologically embedded in our DNA.

It isn't biological, it's behavioral. What you're saying might be true as far as the roots of the behavior, but it's a learned behavior, nonetheless, and behaviors change, subject to cultural shifts.

 

[OneofThree]

It isn't biological, it's behavioral. What you're saying might be true as far as the roots of the behavior, but it's a learned behavior, nonetheless, and behaviors change, subject to cultural shifts.

Sorry, but the genome just doesn't evolve as quickly as your hypothesis requires.

 

[geekza]

Sorry, but the genome just doesn't evolve as quickly as your hypothesis requires.

My point is that it isn't related to genetics. Genetics dictate that women are capable of giving birth to a child during the middle teenage years (and sometimes younger). Behavior and cultural norms, at least in the US, dictate that there are very good reasons why this is a bad idea.

 

[CaptainAmerica]

My point is that it isn't related to genetics. Genetics dictate that women are capable of giving birth to a child during the middle teenage years (and sometimes younger). Behavior and cultural norms, at least in the US, dictate that there are very good reasons why this is a bad idea.

Of course the specific norms of holding doors and offering seats are behavioral, but they're rooted in genetic code. The hormones that cause a heterosexual man to be aroused by an attractive woman are the same ones that cause the impulse to rescue the "damsel in distress" or, yes, to offer a seat to a woman.

A similar example can be found at the link below. It's not in regard to the male-female dynamic, but it's another example of how our prehistoric biological impulses have become ingrained in our DNA over time.

http://newsfeed.time.com/2013/08/26/chopping-wood-a-manlier-feel-than-sports/