Bad news from our friends at MiceAge...

[culturenthrills]

There's some truth to that, but it isn't because the people on this board are malcontents, as your post would imply.

Most local theme parks around the country get a new attraction every year and most get a major addition every five years. The WDW parks are woefully behind on that schedule and TDO has believed for too many years in the "one resort" philosophy (meaning one new attraction feeds all 4 parks, not just the one). This philosophy has made the parks incredibly stale to the point that even a major addition or two isn't enough to compensate for 20+ years of neglect.

Here's a list of what, IMO, is needed for WDW to be up-to-date (and what it would take to get the fanbase truly happy):
• Hollywood Studios is in desperate need of more attractions. They currently have a "land" dedicated to Pixar with one attraction (that usually has a 60+ minute wait). A Monsters Inc ride, an upgrade of HISTK playground to A Bugs Life and (would be nice, but not holding my breath) an Incredibles ride would go a long way to making that park (along with Star Wars) finally a full day park. Star Wars would be amazing, but more is needed to truly round-out that park.

• EPCOT: FutureWorld is plagued by outdated and closed attractions. The list is too long for needs for FutureWorld so I won't do a full list. An upgraded Imagination, EO replacement, and Ellen's Energy replacement would be the first places to start (and would probably placate most hard core fans for awhile).

• EPCOT: World Showcase hasn't had a new country added in 25 years. It's time (especially since many of the countries lack rides or major attractions). Adding a new country (or two) is desperately needed. Upgrading many of the key attractions in the existing countries is desperately needed as well, since many haven't been updated in years.

• MK: with the addition of the FLE, MK is the one of the least of the parks needing anything but Tomorrowland has grown incredibly stale and is showing it's age. A new attraction in TL (bye-bye Stitch please!) would go a long way. A new glass roof for Teacups would be nice, too!

• AK: Avatar and the new nighttime show should give this park what it needs for a while.

Not only do the local theme parks get new attractions every other year but they don't jack their ticket prices every year. There has become a disconnect between the ticket and overall vacation prices in Central Florida and the rest of the country. There has always been a gap but the gap just keeps getting bigger especially for WDW. They are getting close to reaching that point where it will be too much and the fact that UNI down the road keeps adding stuff that it will not be just 1 or 2 days that WDW loses but the entire vacation to UNI, SW/BGT, Legoland, etc.

 

[flynnibus]

Not only do the local theme parks get new attractions every other year but they don't jack their ticket prices every year

The difference is the local theme parks do it out of dire need... WDW didn't need to.

The local theme park model is not something to put on a pedestal - it is flawed in its own sense and why they were weak and were frequently sold and consolidated.

 

[Nubs70]

The problem with WDW is the value proposition.

Is the cost of a trip to the World justified by the value that is experienced?

New rides and attractions increases value
Fully functional rides increases value
Clean parks increases value
Polite CM's increases value
Walt's vision and business practices increase value.

Removal and increased stipulations of the TiW card at V&A decreases the value of the TiW and consequently the AP.

In short, if the costs of a trip to the World continue to increase, activities that increase the value proposition must also increase or, at a minimum, remain at a level just above a similar vacation alternative.

 

[Magenta Panther]

There's some truth to that, but it isn't because the people on this board are malcontents, as your post would imply.

Most local theme parks around the country get a new attraction every year and most get a major addition every five years. The WDW parks are woefully behind on that schedule and TDO has believed for too many years in the "one resort" philosophy (meaning one new attraction feeds all 4 parks, not just the one). This philosophy has made the parks incredibly stale to the point that even a major addition or two isn't enough to compensate for 20+ years of neglect.

Here's a list of what, IMO, is needed for WDW to be up-to-date (and what it would take to get the fanbase truly happy):
• Hollywood Studios is in desperate need of more attractions. They currently have a "land" dedicated to Pixar with one attraction (that usually has a 60+ minute wait). A Monsters Inc ride, an upgrade of HISTK playground to A Bugs Life and (would be nice, but not holding my breath) an Incredibles ride would go a long way to making that park (along with Star Wars) finally a full day park. Star Wars would be amazing, but more is needed to truly round-out that park.

• EPCOT: FutureWorld is plagued by outdated and closed attractions. The list is too long for needs for FutureWorld so I won't do a full list. An upgraded Imagination, EO replacement, and Ellen's Energy replacement would be the first places to start (and would probably placate most hard core fans for awhile).

• EPCOT: World Showcase hasn't had a new country added in 25 years. It's time (especially since many of the countries lack rides or major attractions). Adding a new country (or two) is desperately needed. Upgrading many of the key attractions in the existing countries is desperately needed as well, since many haven't been updated in years.

• MK: with the addition of the FLE, MK is the one of the least of the parks needing anything but Tomorrowland has grown incredibly stale and is showing it's age. A new attraction in TL (bye-bye Stitch please!) would go a long way. A new glass roof for Teacups would be nice, too!

• AK: Avatar and the new nighttime show should give this park what it needs for a while.

FWIW, I agree with everything you said except the last sentence.

 

[Ignohippo]

The problem with WDW is the value proposition.

Is the cost of a trip to the World justified by the value that is experienced?

New rides and attractions increases value
Fully functional rides increases value
Clean parks increases value
Polite CM's increases value
Walt's vision and business practices increase value.

Removal and increased stipulations of the TiW card at V&A decreases the value of the TiW and consequently the AP.

In short, if the costs of a trip to the World continue to increase, activities that increase the value proposition must also increase or, at a minimum, remain at a level just above a similar vacation alternative.

Sad thing is, and the thing I think many on here are the most offended by, is that WDW sells itself to the first-time visitor who doesn't know better.

They'll come away from their first trip without that truly "mind-blowing" experience - Disney will have their hard-earned money and that family will never come back.

That's the part of the magic that the current regime fails to understand. Personally, I'd think they'd want people to say "Oh my gosh, I can't wait to come back" rather than "been there, done that."

 

[Nubs70]

Sad thing is, and the thing I think many on here are the most offended by, is that WDW sells itself to the first-time visitor who doesn't know better.

They'll come away from their first trip without that truly "mind-blowing" experience - Disney will have their hard-earned money and that family will never come back.

That's the part of the magic that the current regime fails to understand. Personally, I'd think they'd want people to say "Oh my gosh, I can't wait to come back" rather than "been there, done that."

My first trip with the wife and kids was mind blowing. We didn't figure out FP until the last 2 days. MM+ will be sensory overload. My fear is that the first time visitor will leave feeling they missed out. This may play out, in the short term, in a drop in bounceback bookings. Long term, the first timer will assess if they had received sufficient value for the money spent. If the value proposition is not met, they will become a one time visitor.

 

[pax_65]

Personally, I'd think they'd want people to say "Oh my gosh, I can't wait to come back" rather than "been there, done that."

In the past the model was to exceed guest expectations so they would return again and again. They were incredibly successful - most of us are on this site because we loved the experience, loved the attractions, loved the service. For me I was hooked in 1991.

At some point in the past decade Disney recognized they had a huge universe of extremely loyal fans. So the attitude shifted to maximizing income per guest - keeping guests in the park, encouraging them to spend more. There has been less focus on exceeding guest expectations.

Overall, service has gone from outstanding to good (some cast members still provide exceptional service). Today only a handful of attractions in each park are still cutting-edge enough, and still in proper operating condition, to deliver that magical experience we love about Disney.

In the midst of all this, ticket prices have gone up, and continue to go up, causing Disney fans like myself to start questioning the value of my Disney vacation for the first time. The idea of "skipping a year or two" is starting to enter the conversation - something unthinkable just a few years ago.

 

[rioriz]

The difference is the local theme parks do it out of dire need... WDW didn't need to.

The local theme park model is not something to put on a pedestal - it is flawed in its own sense and why they were weak and were frequently sold and consolidnd

And can we talk about maintenance in the local parks? Hardly up to Disney standards. That is where they find the money to add a new coaster yearly[/quote]

 

[ParentsOf4]

And can we talk about maintenance in the local parks? Hardly up to Disney standards. That is where they find the money to add a new coaster yearly

My local Six Flags charges $55 for a season pass.

Universal charges $280 for an out-of-state Annual Pass.

WDW charges $609.

Disney Parks & Resort segment realized over $2.2B in profit in 2013.

Just imagine what a fraction of that $2.2B could buy in attractions. The entire WWOHP was built for $280M.

With spending spread out over years, the New Fantasyland costs about $450M while containing 2 restaurants, a couple of meet-and-greets, a retread omnimover attraction from DLR, and one coaster targeted for young children.

Disney simply chooses not to spend profits on exciting new attractions at WDW, and when they do spend, they have a track record in recent years of not reaping value for their investment.

There once was a time when a less massive Disney corporation spent lavishly on bringing a constant stream of exciting new attractions to WDW. Today's Disney management has contempt for theme park guests. Ticket prices are up 25% in 3 years while the current era represents the longest period ever of attraction stagnation at WDW.

 

[jlsHouston]

My first trip with the wife and kids was mind blowing. We didn't figure out FP until the last 2 days. MM+ will be sensory overload. My fear is that the first time visitor will leave feeling they missed out. This may play out, in the short term, in a drop in bounceback bookings. Long term, the first timer will assess if they had received sufficient value for the money spent. If the value proposition is not met, they will become a one time visitor.

We kind of felt this way too after our first visit and we only went for 4 days and only visited MK. However my DD figured out FP right away and utilized it like she had been doing it her entire life with 2 young children in tow. Our second trip we expanded to 5 days and made it to EPCOT twice and HS once. Still had our minds blown. The 3rd visit we managed in 5 days to get to every park once and MK twice, and AK became almost a favorite over MK for my DD.

We have now visited 7 times. WDW as a vacation experience is not stale for us by any means. Do I think the parks need new attractions, yes and I think the FLE while decent isn't really mind blowing although the BOG castle and the new dumbo and barnstormer and Belles Storyland is in top favorite categories for me and the grandkids, my DD is not overly impressed.

I don't see MM+ as added value in comparison to say new rides or attractions, however in the short 3 years we have been coming to WDW, we have seen a new TT which we have nothing to compare it to because we didn't experience the old one before it closed for the upgrade, and we have new attractions and rides and dining in Fantasyland. So for us, the parks are still fresh and interesting enough to for us to motivate and spend money to visit at least twice a year. We really like the Christmas theming at WDW and our trips at Thanksgiving are a favorite. In some ways WDW does have lots to attract repeat visitors but the list @Ignohippo made is very valid and accurate IMO. Each park needs some new and fresh attractions and several of the parks need more than an update here and there.

Haven't booked a trip for 2014 yet and kind of waiting to see how the FP+ plays out with the legacy FP disappearing before I decide if we are going this summer when the parks and resorts are so crowded. Would be hard to stay away an entire year though because still a lot for us to see and do at WDW and we really enjoy vacationing onsite.

 

[marni1971]

My local Six Flags charges $55 for a season pass.

Universal charges $280 for an out-of-state Annual Pass.

WDW charges $609.

Disney Parks & Resort segment realized over $2.2B in profit in 2013.

Just imagine what a fraction of that $2.2B could buy in attractions. The entire WWOHP was built for $280M.

With spending spread out over years, the New Fantasyland costs about $450M while containing 2 restaurants, a couple of meet-and-greets, a retread omnimover attraction from DLR, and one coaster targeted for young children.

Disney simply chooses not to spend profits on exciting new attractions at WDW, and when they do spend, they have a track record in recent years of not reaping value for their investment.

There once was a time when a less massive Disney corporation spent lavishly on bringing a constant stream of exciting new attractions to WDW. Today's Disney management has contempt for theme park guests. Ticket prices are up 25% in 3 years while the current era represents the longest period ever of attraction stagnation at WDW.

Quoted for being a truly excellent - and truthful - post.

 

[Ignohippo]

My local Six Flags charges $55 for a season pass.

Universal charges $280 for an out-of-state Annual Pass.

WDW charges $609.

Disney Parks & Resort segment realized over $2.2B in profit in 2013.

Just imagine what a fraction of that $2.2B could buy in attractions. The entire WWOHP was built for $280M.

With spending spread out over years, the New Fantasyland costs about $450M while containing 2 restaurants, a couple of meet-and-greets, a retread omnimover attraction from DLR, and one coaster targeted for young children.

Disney simply chooses not to spend profits on exciting new attractions at WDW, and when they do spend, they have a track record in recent years of not reaping value for their investment.

There once was a time when a less massive Disney corporation spent lavishly on bringing a constant stream of exciting new attractions to WDW. Today's Disney management has contempt for theme park guests. Ticket prices are up 25% in 3 years while the current era represents the longest period ever of attraction stagnation at WDW.

Brilliant post. I'd highlight that the $2.2 billion of PROFIT is PER YEAR, but investing that amount back in the parks just once would have a lasting effect for decades.

No one would expect them to spend that much, but giving WDW $1 bill every other year and DLR $500 mil every other year would get the parks back to being the very best in the world within 5 years.

Just look at how the $1 billion spent on California Adventure completely made over that park and turned it from a ghost town to a legitimate Disney Park. Now imagine what $1 bil could mean for EPCOT or DHS!

 

[Cousin Huet]

My local Six Flags charges $55 for a season pass.

Universal charges $280 for an out-of-state Annual Pass.

WDW charges $609.

Disney Parks & Resort segment realized over $2.2B in profit in 2013.

Just imagine what a fraction of that $2.2B could buy in attractions. The entire WWOHP was built for $280M.

With spending spread out over years, the New Fantasyland costs about $450M while containing 2 restaurants, a couple of meet-and-greets, a retread omnimover attraction from DLR, and one coaster targeted for young children.

Disney simply chooses not to spend profits on exciting new attractions at WDW, and when they do spend, they have a track record in recent years of not reaping value for their investment.

There once was a time when a less massive Disney corporation spent lavishly on bringing a constant stream of exciting new attractions to WDW. Today's Disney management has contempt for theme park guests. Ticket prices are up 25% in 3 years while the current era represents the longest period ever of attraction stagnation at WDW.

To be fair the "World" of Harry Potter only included one new attraction. The kiddie coaster was just rethemed and the Drgon Challenge was......well, not much was done there at all. Other than that it is a bunch of small shops that don't allow to move after a couple people get in there. Walking through Hogsmeade is really awesome but attraction wise it isn't a lot. There needs to be a total redo of the Forbidden Journey as too many people get off there nearly sick.....not sure they even tried with the story telling on there either. Disney surely needs to step it up but the first WWOHP is not an example I'd use for them to follow and neither is NFL (Carsland, yes). HOWEVER, Diagon and Gringotts looks to be awesome.......hopefully the Express is cool otherwise we are still only getting one attraction out of that huge expansion. I wish Disney would work with that same sense of urgency as Carsland was awesome and I can only imagine how awesome Star Wars could be and Pandora (despite the bad movie) looks to be an amazing area as well......too bad we wont see them until ?????? Who knows

 

[asianway]

@Jason_Garcia is tossing around $800M for avatar & nighttime improvements. That seems to be a s*** ton of money for what I'm seeing

 

[englanddg]

@Jason_Garcia is tossing around $800M for avatar & nighttime improvements. That seems to be a s*** ton of money for what I'm seeing

He is probably getting that from an Orlando Sentinel article

http://touch.orlandosentinel.com/#story/os-disney-animal-kingdom-rebuild-20140111/

 

[homerdance]

He is probably getting that from an Orlando Sentinel article

http://touch.orlandosentinel.com/#story/os-disney-animal-kingdom-rebuild-20140111/

You mean the story Jason wrote?

 

[lazyboy97o]

@Jason_Garcia is tossing around $800M for avatar & nighttime improvements. That seems to be a s*** ton of money for what I'm seeing

Who involved in this project is know for reigning in costs?

 

[ParentsOf4]

To be fair the "World" of Harry Potter only included one new attraction. The kiddie coaster was just rethemed and the Drgon Challenge was......well, not much was done there at all. Other than that it is a bunch of small shops that don't allow to move after a couple people get in there. Walking through Hogsmeade is really awesome but attraction wise it isn't a lot. There needs to be a total redo of the Forbidden Journey as too many people get off there nearly sick.....not sure they even tried with the story telling on there either. Disney surely needs to step it up but the first WWOHP is not an example I'd use for them to follow and neither is NFL (Carsland, yes). HOWEVER, Diagon and Gringotts looks to be awesome.......hopefully the Express is cool otherwise we are still only getting one attraction out of that huge expansion. I wish Disney would work with that same sense of urgency as Carsland was awesome and I can only imagine how awesome Star Wars could be and Pandora (despite the bad movie) looks to be an amazing area as well......too bad we wont see them until ?????? Who knows

You’ll get little argument from me that WWOHP’s substance was modest.

So was Terror of Terror (TOT) in 1994. Yet TOT was (and still is) an amazing theme park experience.

In many ways, 1994 represents the pinnacle of WDW. DHS was still new, DAK was in the planning stages, and WDW had just opened the most remarkable attraction since its early days. A water park had opened and another one was on the way. (I love WDW’s water parks, BTW.) Pleasure Island was there for adults who wanted to have some fun while a complete makeover of Downtown Disney was in the works.

Go back 20 years and almost no one was bashing Disney. It truly felt like “the place where dreams come true”. The pixie dust was pretty thick in those days.

No matter what you or I might think of the substance behind WWOHP, the fundamental reality is that WWOHP was phenomenal critical and economic success. Reviews were overwhelmingly positive and the expansion had a transforming effect on Universal’s cash flow.

It’s not always how much you spend; it’s how wisely you spend it.

Many have been critical of the New Fantasyland for having turned an entire area of the Magic Kingdom into one big kiddie park. Many have been critical of MyMagic+ for being a huge money grab approved by those with no appreciation of the theme park experience. Many have been critical of Pandora for being a poor choice of IP. And, of course, Disney takes takes an inordinate number of years to get these projects done.

Conversely, Universal is on a roll.

WWOHP was an unbelievable success. Both Minions Mayhem and Transformers were positively received. All 3 were relatively inexpensive. And Diagon Alley promises to be the most amazing addition to a theme park since WWOHP.

Disney continues to invest poorly while Universal invests wisely.

 

[CDavid]

@Jason_Garcia is tossing around $800M for avatar & nighttime improvements. That seems to be a s*** ton of money for what I'm seeing

Disney tends to overpay for seemingly everything they do anymore, which is actually a problem, because spent more wisely $800 million could fix more than just Animal Kingdom.

 

[twebber55]

My local Six Flags charges $55 for a season pass.

Universal charges $280 for an out-of-state Annual Pass.

WDW charges $609.

Disney Parks & Resort segment realized over $2.2B in profit in 2013.

Just imagine what a fraction of that $2.2B could buy in attractions. The entire WWOHP was built for $280M.

With spending spread out over years, the New Fantasyland costs about $450M while containing 2 restaurants, a couple of meet-and-greets, a retread omnimover attraction from DLR, and one coaster targeted for young children.

Disney simply chooses not to spend profits on exciting new attractions at WDW, and when they do spend, they have a track record in recent years of not reaping value for their investment.

There once was a time when a less massive Disney corporation spent lavishly on bringing a constant stream of exciting new attractions to WDW. Today's Disney management has contempt for theme park guests. Ticket prices are up 25% in 3 years while the current era represents the longest period ever of attraction stagnation at WDW.

first let me say i agree with you but until people stop buying these passes disney will continue to charge these amounts...i expect to see Universal gradually go up on these as well