Automated monorail system update

[rangerbob]

there is a huge rinker concrete manufacturing plant in the maitland area. about 15 miles from WDW that could make any beams. the couple times that i drove past there they had some really huge pipes and other things hardening in the yard.

 

[Bacalou]

there is a huge rinker concrete manufacturing plant in the maitland area. about 15 miles from WDW that could make any beams. the couple times that i drove past there they had some really huge pipes and other things hardening in the yard.

I think concrete manufacturing has improved quite a lot in Florida since the 80's. I have no doubt that a local supplier could produce those beams. My only contention is are the beams a Bombarder item or a WDW Transportation item. Were the patents associated with the beams (if there are any) also sold to Bomberder as part of the terrible Eisner era.

 

[Pixie VaVoom]

Now, if we were ambitious and created a long term funded plan for a national high speed rail system it would make a lot more sense.

Yeah - until some politician found a way to squirrel the money out of it and cheat us all.

 

[montyz81]

What is the incremental expense to upgrade the trains for automation ?

 

[PeterAlt]

Oh I know I am. For a switched Monorail network, an automated system of controlling the trains is almost a necessity. I believe that all the current switched networks use automated trains as well.

Where do I think the switches would be? One would be at [28.378458, -81.560495] for the turn south towards AK and the other would be at [28.381622,-81.566439] for the return to the TTC.

I don't believe there will be a DHS extension until the park has undergone some overhauls. As it sits, I don't think it would be a wise investment.

Just saw your new post... I know that the All Aboard Florida project will have a Disney line in Phase 2.

Well, they hope. They haven't yet started negotiating with the state for the ROW. I think they want to use the I-4 median that was reserved for FHSR. If the state leases that to them, they should agree to allow the state to use their tracks and electrify them if FHSR is ever resurrected in the future.

My thinking is that a DHS extension of the monorail (or a separate automated people mover system) should be part of a major DHS refurb/expansion project that could also include a new attraction at Imagination as part of the whole thing. That probably won't happen.

 

[Bacalou]

My thinking is that a DHS extension of the monorail (or a separate automated people mover system) should be part of a major DHS refurb/expansion project that could also include a new attraction at Imagination as part of the whole thing. That probably won't happen.

I saw someone had posted a really good DHS extension where it switched off to the West of Future World. Can't find it now.

 

[PeterAlt]

I saw someone had posted a really good DHS extension where it switched off to the West of Future World. Can't find it now.

That was one of the plans that almost happened. I like my idea of going down World Drive instead. It's simpler, has a clear ROW, and is an extremely short run that does not require loops.

 

[lazyboy97o]

I think concrete manufacturing has improved quite a lot in Florida since the 80's. I have no doubt that a local supplier could produce those beams. My only contention is are the beams a Bombarder item or a WDW Transportation item. Were the patents associated with the beams (if there are any) also sold to Bomberder as part of the terrible Eisner era.

They're post-tensioned concrete beams. Nothing really specially about them to be patented.

 

[Rasvar]

I think concrete manufacturing has improved quite a lot in Florida since the 80's. I have no doubt that a local supplier could produce those beams. My only contention is are the beams a Bombarder item or a WDW Transportation item. Were the patents associated with the beams (if there are any) also sold to Bomberder as part of the terrible Eisner era.

Even if there was a transfer of patents on some of the items, you can be assured Disney kept a perpetual right to use them.

 

[sweetpee_1993]

Are you suggesting monorail will go to AK?

It could run on mostly at grade on its way there to save a bundle of money.

Where I live in West Palm Beach, we have a gigantic concrete manufacturer that I pass by every day on my way to just about any where. I just can't imagine that Disney would have to use a manufacturer all the way in WA state....

If you know anything about the construction and history of the Causeway bridge that spans Lake Pontchartrain in Louisiana....its a 26 mile bridge w/a drawbridge in the middle... They built a concrete casting plant right on the shore of the lake on the east side of the north end of the bridge. They cast the piles and, I think, the cross member supports (can't think of the name of them). They'd cast all these high strength pieces, hoist them onto barges, then float 'em to where they were needed. Not sure about the other bridge pieces but I know for sure the piles were all cast right there virtually onsite. If Disney was going to take on a huge expansion to the monorail system they might come out better building their own casting site right there on property. Think of the offset in trucking the pieces in! PLUS, the facility could be used on future projects where piles might be needed underneath footings or other large pours. It would be an investment to do it but if Disney was taking on a huge undertaking where pylons and beams would be needed it may be more cost effective.

 

[Rasvar]

If you know anything about the construction and history of the Causeway bridge that spans Lake Pontchartrain in Louisiana....its a 26 mile bridge w/a drawbridge in the middle... They built a concrete casting plant right on the shore of the lake on the east side of the north end of the bridge. They cast the piles and, I think, the cross member supports (can't think of the name of them). They'd cast all these high strength pieces, hoist them onto barges, then float 'em to where they were needed. Not sure about the other bridge pieces but I know for sure the piles were all cast right there virtually onsite. If Disney was going to take on a huge expansion to the monorail system they might come out better building their own casting site right there on property. Think of the offset in trucking the pieces in! PLUS, the facility could be used on future projects where piles might be needed underneath footings or other large pours. It would be an investment to do it but if Disney was taking on a huge undertaking where pylons and beams would be needed it may be more cost effective.

My favorite construction project like that was an I-95 expansion in Jacksonville where the built a concrete facility in the median for the extent of the project.
Not sure Disney would want one so visible on property. Because of wetlands and transport issues, they would probably have to convert some of the tree farm off Western Way to do it. There is land north of Bay Lake where I think the original Poly and Contemporary rooms were constructed, but it would be difficult to transport out of there to the build site.

 

[sweetpee_1993]

My favorite construction project like that was an I-95 expansion in Jacksonville where the built a concrete facility in the median for the extent of the project.
Not sure Disney would want one so visible on property. Because of wetlands and transport issues, they would probably have to convert some of the tree farm off Western Way to do it. There is land north of Bay Lake where I think the original Poly and Contemporary rooms were constructed, but it would be difficult to transport out of there to the build site.

What about repurposing space on the old airstrip area?

I think a big obstacle would be the trucks using the existing roadways.

 

[marni1971]

Nice find!
Looks like it could be the first step toward a fully automated system.

Oh dear. Really?

Thales were the contractor for Manchesters LRT signalling and control upgrade. After years of errors it's ended in the courts.

 

[Rasvar]

What about repurposing space on the old airstrip area?

I think a big obstacle would be the trucks using the existing roadways.

That is my main reason to discount this. No direct route to the other side of World Drive. You would have to build a number of cut troughs and disrupt traffic heading in and out of MK parking lot to transport the items. That would be the last place I think Disney would want a long term traffic disruption.

 

[marni1971]

I've been following your monorail speculation and rumor threads and posts for a long time. If you ever wondered what really gets in the way of monorail expansions here in Orlando I have some answers for you. They are manufactured at Concrete Technology Corporation in Tacoma, Washington.

Phase one beams were originally. Later they were pressed on site. Disney actually purchased the pressing plant to do any future expansions cheaper themselves in house and on property.

 

[senor_jorge]

What about repurposing space on the old airstrip area?

I think a big obstacle would be the trucks using the existing roadways.

The road work in Texas will never end, and Dallas and Ft. Worth are prime examples with new and expanded fliyovers, overpasses, and expanding capacity of many of the highways in the metroplex. I know that at least some, if not all, of the large beams are manufactured between Austin and San Antonio and trucked to the site. 225 miles. I'd like to think that the state is using the most cost efficient option, but I wouldn't be surprised if they weren't....

Making the EPA and state agencies happy probably comes with a price tag as well if they were to manufacture on site. Then there are the claims, real and imagined, that the concrete dust caused little Johnny to have a life threatening asthma attack....

Edit: Or what Marin said.

 

[sweetpee_1993]

That is my main reason to discount this. No direct route to the other side of World Drive. You would have to build a number of cut troughs and disrupt traffic heading in and out of MK parking lot to transport the items. That would be the last place I think Disney would want a long term traffic disruption.

I personally don't believe TDO has the best project management (I don't think they pay enough to obtain that) but a good way to avoid the traffic issues would be to have your trucks with tomorrow's parts ready to roll by early evening. After midnight or later when traffic has died-off you truck your parts for tomorrow out where they're needed. The hauling *could* be scheduled around the daytime traffic activities. But, cranes are up at the castle working during the day. I don't see TDO spending what it takes to pay a night shift differential to work this way.

 

[sweetpee_1993]

The road work in Texas will never end, and Dallas and Ft. Worth are prime examples with new and expanded fliyovers, overpasses, and expanding capacity of many of the highways in the metroplex. I know that at least some, if not all, of the large beams are manufactured between Austin and San Antonio and trucked to the site. 225 miles. I'd like to think that the state is using the most cost efficient option, but I wouldn't be surprised if they weren't....

Making the EPA and state agencies happy probably comes with a price tag as well if they were to manufacture on site. Then there are the claims, real and imagined, that the concrete dust caused little Johnny to have a life threatening asthma attack....

Edit: Or what Marin said.

Tell me about it. I live on the southeast side of Houston. Lemme tell you what a total cluster I-45 is near us. Ugh!

 

[lazyboy97o]

If you know anything about the construction and history of the Causeway bridge that spans Lake Pontchartrain in Louisiana....its a 26 mile bridge w/a drawbridge in the middle... They built a concrete casting plant right on the shore of the lake on the east side of the north end of the bridge. They cast the piles and, I think, the cross member supports (can't think of the name of them). They'd cast all these high strength pieces, hoist them onto barges, then float 'em to where they were needed. Not sure about the other bridge pieces but I know for sure the piles were all cast right there virtually onsite. If Disney was going to take on a huge expansion to the monorail system they might come out better building their own casting site right there on property. Think of the offset in trucking the pieces in! PLUS, the facility could be used on future projects where piles might be needed underneath footings or other large pours. It would be an investment to do it but if Disney was taking on a huge undertaking where pylons and beams would be needed it may be more cost effective.

It would not have to be Disney. These types of on-site facilities are not at all uncommon due to how concrete is made. The concrete company hired to do the project would more than likely have all of the equipment to set up such a facility.

 

[PeterAlt]

Phase one beams were originally. Later they were pressed on site. Disney actually purchased the pressing plant to do any future expansions cheaper themselves in house and on property.

This is the kind of fact that I didn't know, should have known about, need to know, and wish I had known about. How many more facts like that are "hiding" from me?