Victor Kelly
Well-Known Member
The trains at MCO drive themselves all day long. Driverless monorails have definite advantages.
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Automated monorail system update
- Thread starter BwanaBob
- Start date
In no way are you comparing apples to apples here. How many other monorails can the monorails at MCO encounter while on the track? None. Walt Disney World's monorail system and the system at MCO are similar in no way, except that they are both monorails. MCO's system is much easier to operated automated considering it's a short shuttle compared to WDW's....
Just my $0.02.
MinnieM123
Premium Member
I've always enjoyed the ride on that MCO monorail train; it's fun, and I enjoy looking out the windows during the ride between terminals, and seeing the palm trees and Florida sunshine.
Although I understand that (driverless) automation may be the trend now in some transportation systems, I still hope that a CM "pilot" will always be stationed in the front car, of each WDW monorail train. As important as technology is to the operation of the monorail system, I don't think we can underestimate the value of a "live" person at the front. A pilot may be able to see or detect a safety issue while en route, that might not detected by the automated system.
montyz81
Well-Known Member
MCO isn't a monorail. It is more akin to a bus then anything. FYI, I believe those trains were developed with consulting from Disney.
Rob562
Well-Known Member
Especially as they don't drive on a single beam, which is the very definition of a monorail. You're right that it's a guided bus, each car rolling on four tires along two flat, parallel beams.
-Rob
Rasvar
Well-Known Member
I miss the old Jack Wagner announcements on the MCO terminal trams. Always felt like I got to WDW early.I've always enjoyed the ride on that MCO monorail train; it's fun, and I enjoy looking out the windows during the ride between terminals, and seeing the palm trees and Florida sunshine.
Although I understand that (driverless) automation may be the trend now in some transportation systems, I still hope that a CM "pilot" will always be stationed in the front car, of each WDW monorail train. As important as technology is to the operation of the monorail system, I don't think we can underestimate the value of a "live" person at the front. A pilot may be able to see or detect a safety issue while en route, that might not detected by the automated system.
As far as the live pilot. Not sure it's needed. Las Vegas system is completely pilotless as is most other similar systems now. A couple of good cameras and a virtual pilot back at the control center can do visuals for multiple trains at the same time. Only reason to keep would be for the show. You would probably have a pilot for the first few weeks/months of automatic operation but I suspect their days are numbered as the operations become more used to the systems.
Rasvar
Well-Known Member
When Disney purchased the Mark VI's from Bombardier, some of the rights to the technology was sold to them to use in non-Disney designs. Las Vegas is the biggest example. Las Vegas monorail was originally between Bally's and MGM Grand with two of the original Mark IV monorails purchased from Disney World. So the hardware systems was already the original Disney design. When they wanted to expand the system, Bombardier built Las Vegas new monorails that used some of the technology that was from the Mark VI's even though they had a modified control system and look. The beams in Las Vegas are the exact same dimension as those in WDW. Bombardier has also used the technology in other train systems. The Las Vegas train styles from Bombardier trains in Las Vegas are even called MVI trains, short for Mark VI.
PeterAlt
Well-Known Member
I thought Disney sold their WED Enterprises Community Transportation Services division to Bombardier some time in the early 80's. This included the monorail and WEDway PeopleMover patents. Disney installed two WEDway PeopleMover systems before the sale. The first was at WDW. The second installation was at the Houston International Airport (or was it Dallas?), and was a modified version with higher capacity and PRT-like functionality. There is also a WEDway PeopleMover-related system under the the US Capitol buildings. I think that system was built after Disney sold off the transportation division, though I am not sure because I haven't been able to find information confirming that. I am not sure if the division was sold under Eisner's watch, or before it. I have not been able to find news articles about it published during the 80's.
Bacalou
Member
As far as I am aware, the only unique quality to Disney's people mover is the one at Magic Kingdom which uses linear synchronous motors. That system is a standard in motorized electrical carriages and I'm not aware of associated patents that would be unique to MK's People Mover. I believe it is considered an IEEE standard instead of a patent. I'm fairly certain that the MK system is the only linear synchronous people mover in use as the others have their electric engines onboard the carriages.
Rasvar
Well-Known Member
I'm not exactly sure, I know the designs and patents of the original ALWEG system were sold to Bombardier before the DL Mark V. I just realized I mispoke about the timing of the sale above. It's been one of those weeks. So, it would have been in the 80's either way since the first Mark VI came online in 1989 and Mark V in 1987.
Victor Kelly
Well-Known Member
MCO may not be a monorail but it uses the same driverless technology being discussed. Stop with the nitpicking, keyboard commandos.
Rob562
Well-Known Member
Except it doesn't.
There is only one train on each track, and thus there is zero chance for a train-train collision and so absolutely no reason for any kind of dynamic train control. It gets a start command, it drives forward until it hits a sensor to slow down, then it stops at a pre-determined point. Then it does the same in reverse.
Its operating system is a lot closer to an elevator than it is a driverless monorail or train.
-Rob
ABQ
Well-Known Member
How about DFW? The Skylink trains there are driverless and have a similar route to the monorail lines around the Seven Seas Lagoon. Two tracks running in opposite directions with platforms between each set of tracks.
GhettoJetta5
Member
In everything I have read, the Pilots title may change to "Attendant" but someone will be on board Disney Monorails for the foreseeable future. Pilot-less monorail systems like Las Vegas and the future São Paulo have emergency walkways so that if a monorail has a major issue (example: fire) and needs to be evacuated on the spot there is somewhere to go and passengers do not need direction of any kind (go out the window exit to the walkway and get away from the train, basically the instinctual thing to do.)
Disney Monorails are a little different. From what I gather, passengers must evacuate through the roof and then move to another car if possible, based on how full the train is. Fire will not spread due to firewalls between cars (Eventually the entire train would be evacuated by the Fires Dept.) If the train is full, passengers may have to be evacuated first to the diver cabs if possible, but if they will not all fit finally some may be evacuated to the actual track surface using a knotted rope to get down off the monorail "Nose". This procedure would be difficult without some form of cast member assistance. Now [knock on wood] from what I have read there have not been fire issues on Disney Monorails since the Mark IVs were replaced due to Tire Pressure Monitoring and other safety features implemented because of the issues with the Mark IV monorails.
Link to one of the the stories on Monorail Automation (it is about half way down the page):
http://www.monorails.org/tMspages/archive052213.html
The article also states the "Attendants" will monitor train systems, so maybe due to the age of the trains information like Tire Pressure Monitoring and Compressor/inverter status may not be able to be transmitted to a central control center (Though I wouldn't see why not). Others may also know more on emergency evacuation procedures on Disney Monorails, but I couldn't see it working well without a cast member.
danlb_2000
Premium Member
That doesn't sound like a procedure that a single CM could manage. I would think that emergency services would arrive long before a single CM could move people to another car.
MinnieM123
Premium Member
Although each of us approached this topic from different angles, it led to an interesting exchange of ideas. You presented a good model of a pilotless, monorail system used in Las Vegas. I appreciate the details you shared, as they helped to frame the highlights of this type of automated transportation. I learned some new facts from reading that.
Yet, even with these enhanced, automation improvements, my own preference (for an added layer of safety) is to always have a "live" CM pilot at the front of the monorail. However, certainly from a financial point of view, I believe you are correct—a fully automated system, will probably be the solution of choice for the company decision-makers.
GhettoJetta5
Member
I agree that it would be difficult... But in a fire I am not sure waiting for emergency service is always an option. From what I've read and seen pictures of from the monorail fire in 1985, guests had to act on their own before emergency crews arrived. I am not sure if the Pilot was helpful or not in that situation, from what I read he asked guests to use the window exits to get to the roof over the PA. I am pretty sure the Mark IV Monorails did not have roof Hatches and I am not sure if the Pilot Cabin door would have allowed any kind of access to the roof to help, but I obviously cannot say for sure I am just going by pictures of the Mark IV monorails. Would a cast member help in an emergency situation? I can't say, but it wouldn't hurt to have someone with a little knowledge of how things work... Again, a fire of that magnitude shouldn't really happen with the Mark VI monorails due to Tire Pressure Monitoring and Firewalls around the cars. But even in less severe situation having a cast member on board may alleviate panic in situations when waiting prolonged periods of time for a Tractor to be towed or a similar situation. Sorry for the rambling...
danlb_2000
Premium Member
I thought I remember someone posting about this before.
Timon
Well-Known Member
Possibly true, I read from Page 8 to here to catch up and while there were statements and discussions about the costs of beams from Washington State, no one stood up and said the Epcot Line was completely made at WDW. FYI I was working for Disney at the time and even got stuck behind a slow moving beam-mover being moved to site.
I'm all for an automated monorail system, the monorail in Vegas is amazing to watch!
BUT ...
Thales Automated System? Why? Why put someone else's system in a Bombardier train? The Bombardier's System is called City Flow 650 and is a proven system which has been evolving for 30 years via all their rail systems. It's like installing Chrysler electronics in a Chevy. You might get it to work but it's now a non-standard product making service and upgrades difficult. A bigger question is why invest all that money in automation for worn out trains. Better to buy new trains with an integrated system or at least a major overhaul and new body/interiors with automation.
Where is the logic?