Al Lutz: Carsland for WDW, FLE not Bringing in Guests

[ParentsOf4]

At WDW a room regularly cost us about $99/night at a moderate so about $600 for a 5-day trip with taxes

Do tell, how are you getting $99/night for a Moderate Resort. That's a great rate. Inquiring minds want to know!

 

[devoy1701]

Do tell, how are you getting $99/night for a Moderate Resort. That's a great rate. Inquiring minds want to know!

well...we would have to wind the dial back about 4 years and purchase an AP... back in 2009 and 2010 a Mod would cost $99 using an AP Rate (Values would cost $54). The last time we stayed on property was 2010 at WL during a value season (August) for $144/night. Our APs expired in Feb 2011 and we haven't been back since...so I might be a bit out of date.

 

[HMF]

Just a note on staying at Disney vs. not. It has gotten to the point where even 40-60% off CM/AP/FLA resident rates don't come close to making it a value.

I know many Pixie Dust addicts couldn't see themselves anywhere off-property. To that I would only say there is hope. I spent about three months of 1999 at WDW resorts (most deluxe, some mods and a few value nights), I know all about addiction. But you can get past it. You just have to be willing to admit you have a problem. And, yes, giving Disney $$$ for lodging at their absurd pricepoints on a regular basis is the sign of a major problem.

On my last visit, I stayed at the lovely Rosen Shingle Creek. A true 4-star deluxe resort about 15 minutes from Disney or UNI and right near SW ... two rooms ... TWO ... for $43 a piece or $86 for two using Priceline's Name your Own Price bidding service. I think my best CM friend offer was for one of the All Stars for $70-something for ONE room.

And someone mentioned Orange Lake. I stayed in a true vacation home there (the only Disney accomodation of that size would be a grand villa) for $61 a night for almost a week in October of 2011.

People are throwing hundreds (in some cases, thousands) of dollars away, so they can suckle at Mickey's teet and get tucked into bed by a warm white glove.

In this economy, I don't get how people can be as frivolous with their money like I was in the 90s.

I am actually making it a point in my next WDW visit to stay at an off-property hotel. A few years back I would have said that was ludicrous but right now they deserve as little of my money as possible.

 

[PeterAlt]

I never got the impression that FL was so badly overcrowded that it was the most desperate in need of expansion. If they had spent the money updating TL, which REALLY needs it at this point, and pulling some of that crowd to another section of the park it could have had the same effect. I'm not saying that the FL expansion was a mistake but what they really need is another E-ticket on the TL side of the park to help pull the crowds over that way. Look at how bad crowds get over by Splash/Thunder Mountain, that side of the park is heavy with the best/biggest attractions.

First and foremost TL needs a total redo of Space Mountain's ride system with the ride vehicle audio system and smooth tracks and fully immersive special effects like the DL version. After they do that and only after then should new E tickets for TL be discussed (other than CoP that needs something done to update it).

Adventureland is the most needy of the lands. They really need to put Fire Mountain back on track. Bring Indy there if they're not cloning it for DHS.

I say both of these things because I was really impressed with the DL Space Mountain and the Indy ride there. Between the Indy ride there and its superior PotC, that side of DL is well anchored.

 

[ParentsOf4]

well...we would have to wind the dial back about 4 years and purchase an AP... back in 2009 and 2010 a Mod would cost $99 using an AP Rate (Values would cost $54). The last time we stayed on property was 2010 at WL during a value season (August) for $144/night. Our APs expired in Feb 2011 and we haven't been back since...so I might be a bit out of date.

A 7-day base ticket was $243 (with tax) in February 2009. In 4 years it's risen to $307, an increase of 26%.

An AP was $499. Today it's $611, an increase of 22%.

How many people are paid 22% more than they were in 2009? I suppose the first people to ask would be the WDW CMs. I bet Disney executives have that 22% covered. Iger, after all, just got a 20% raise in one year.

Of course, in that time Disney has given us one rather ordinary C-ticket attraction with a really nice queue.

And Disney wonders why FLE is not packing them in.

 

[PeterAlt]

Just a thought -

If Disney builds Iron Man for DL, would Uni's Orlando Marvel rights be violated if Disney ever decides to clone it here (without Uni's consent)? Does Uni's Orlando Marvel rights include Iron Man? What are the limits of Disney's "exclusion territory"? Is all of Florida excluded from Disney ever using certain Marvel characters, or just the parks?

If Uni's Marvel license prevents Disney from cloning a future Iron Man attraction from DL, it would be wiser for Disney to not built it at all because if such an attraction is popular in the future at DL, the value of USO's Florida rights will shoot up. Disney must do what it can to keep the value of those rights as low as possible in order to one day play hardball and negotiate them back.

 

[danlb_2000]

Just a thought -

If Disney builds Iron Man for DL, would Uni's Orlando Marvel rights be violated if Disney ever decides to clone it here (without Uni's consent)? Does Uni's Orlando Marvel rights include Iron Man? What are the limits of Disney's "exclusion territory"? Is all of Florida excluded from Disney ever using certain Marvel characters, or just the parks?

If Uni's Marvel license prevents Disney from cloning a future Iron Man attraction from DL, it would be wiser for Disney to not built it at all because of such an attraction is popular in the future at DL, the value of USO's Florida rights will shoot up. Disney must do what it can to keep the value of those rights as low as possible in order to one day play hardball and negotiate them back.

Exclusion Territory if east of the Mississippi and covers any character they are using in a non-trival manner and any characters in the same family. Since they already using a couple Avengers they would have the rights to Iron Man.

 

[Californian Elitist]

Just a thought -

If Disney builds Iron Man for DL, would Uni's Orlando Marvel rights be violated if Disney ever decides to clone it here (without Uni's consent)? Does Uni's Orlando Marvel rights include Iron Man? What are the limits of Disney's "exclusion territory"? Is all of Florida excluded from Disney ever using certain Marvel characters, or just the parks?

If Uni's Marvel license prevents Disney from cloning a future Iron Man attraction from DL, it would be wiser for Disney to not built it at all because if such an attraction is popular in the future at DL, the value of USO's Florida rights will shoot up. Disney must do what it can to keep the value of those rights as low as possible in order to one day play hardball and negotiate them back.

I can bet Disney doesn't care about not being able to use Marvel in Florida. There are at least five other resorts in which Marvel can be used. What do they care about one resort? I can also bet the price is already set at an incredibly high number, and Uni has no plans on handing over those rights.

If Disney was smart, they'd go ahead and build the Iron Man attraction in Disneyland's Tomorrowland, especially with Potter now being constructed in Hollywood.

 

[PeterAlt]

Exclusion Territory if east of the Mississippi and covers any character they are using in a non-trival manner and any characters in the same family. Since they already using a couple Avengers they would have the rights to Iron Man.

That's something the lawyers can fight over. I hope Disney has good lawyers who can deny Uni's claim for the rights of those particular characters.

In any case, this has to be renegotiated. If I was a Disney executive, I would go obsessive compulsive over this. I would stop at nothing and be agressive to get a new deal. I would ask the legal department to find things of Universal's interest the company could hold as ransom if they refuse to negotiate a new deal. I would purposely buy rights to things that Universal wants, dependent of, needs, or is of interest in just for leverage in negotiating with them. I would explore bartering options, joint ventures, and even granting certain Disney rights to them, depending on their negotiable flexibility!

 

[Skibum1970]

The area between HM, Pan, and IASW was arguably the worst/most congested area of the MK.

Agree. Go there on a medium crowd day and it is like swimming upstream. Too crowded. However, I went back into FLE and, though a crowd was waiting for LM, I'm not sure how much easier it made things. Plus, the aisleway between LM and the SDMT was a little narrow. May get better once it is opened up. The best area is in front of the new walls as that area is really wide open. I think that the new Tangled restroom area will do as much to alleviate crowds as the FLE area.

 

[Maerj]

I would dare to guess that the raise that just one Disney executive got last year would be more that what the entire group of actors got paid all year for their FotLK performances.

Yeah, probably. I'd say let's protest that but we'd be arrested and our movement would be finished off by the authorities.

 

[Buried20KLeague]

The Sindbad ride is good, but not amazing at all. I rode it twice because i fond it interesting, and concluded I don't need to ride it again if I ever go back.

WOW do we disagree.

I thought it was every bit as good as Pooh.

If literally HUNDREDS of small AA's each with unique and smooth movement doesn't impress you, what the heck DOES????

 

[lazyboy97o]

There are at least five other resorts in which Marvel can be used.

I do not think I have seen anybody give a really definitive answer to the question if Universal Studios Japan or Madam Tussauds London have any sort of geographic exclusivity which would impact Tokyo Disney Resort or Disneyland Paris.

That's something the lawyers can fight over. I hope Disney has good lawyers who can deny Uni's claim for the rights of those particular characters.

In any case, this has to be renegotiated. If I was a Disney executive, I would go obsessive compulsive over this. I would stop at nothing and be agressive to get a new deal. I would ask the legal department to find things of Universal's interest the company could hold as ransom if they refuse to negotiate a new deal. I would purposely buy rights to things that Universal wants, dependent of, needs, or is of interest in just for leverage in negotiating with them. I would explore bartering options, joint ventures, and even granting certain Disney rights to them, depending on their negotiable flexibility!

It is not something lawyers can fight over. It is written in the contract plain as day. Your proposal of just buying stuff is about as silly as your idea of Disney getting Comcast to go along with spinning off their respective theme park units and merging them into a single joint venture.

 

[wm49rs]

It is not something lawyers can fight over. It is written in the contract plain as day. Your proposal of just buying stuff is about as silly as your idea of Disney getting Comcast to go along with spinning off their respective theme park units and merging them into a single joint venture.

I think it's been mentioned before that both sides are pretty happy with the deal, regardless of whether or not a new ride/land goes into DL. Uni knows what the franchise is worth, and TWDC knows it's a price not worth paying. Especially when they can make money hand over fist with the movies, merchandise, and perhaps yes, eventually, rides and attractions in their other parks.

 

[lazyboy97o]

I think it's been mentioned before that both sides are pretty happy with the deal, regardless of whether or not a new ride/land goes into DL. Uni knows what the franchise is worth, and TWDC knows it's a price not worth paying. Especially when they can make money hand over fist with the movies, merchandise, and perhaps yes, eventually, rides and attractions in their other parks.

Of course Disney is happy, they're making money without having to do any actual work, much less work in their expensive, slow to return theme park side business in Florida. Universal should be more than happy because they have a set of characters that are now more popular than anybody would have anticipated back in 1994 at a price that is likely very reasonable (exact numbers are censored from the contract posted by the SEC) as well as quite predictable.

 

[Goofyernmost]

Just a note on staying at Disney vs. not. It has gotten to the point where even 40-60% off CM/AP/FLA resident rates don't come close to making it a value.

I know many Pixie Dust addicts couldn't see themselves anywhere off-property. To that I would only say there is hope. I spent about three months of 1999 at WDW resorts (most deluxe, some mods and a few value nights), I know all about addiction. But you can get past it. You just have to be willing to admit you have a problem. And, yes, giving Disney $$$ for lodging at their absurd pricepoints on a regular basis is the sign of a major problem.

On my last visit, I stayed at the lovely Rosen Shingle Creek. A true 4-star deluxe resort about 15 minutes from Disney or UNI and right near SW ... two rooms ... TWO ... for $43 a piece or $86 for two using Priceline's Name your Own Price bidding service. I think my best CM friend offer was for one of the All Stars for $70-something for ONE room.

And someone mentioned Orange Lake. I stayed in a true vacation home there (the only Disney accomodation of that size would be a grand villa) for $61 a night for almost a week in October of 2011.

People are throwing hundreds (in some cases, thousands) of dollars away, so they can suckle at Mickey's teet and get tucked into bed by a warm white glove.

In this economy, I don't get how people can be as frivolous with their money like I was in the 90s.

It's for the magic, silly!

 

[danlb_2000]

That's something the lawyers can fight over. I hope Disney has good lawyers who can deny Uni's claim for the rights of those particular characters.

In any case, this has to be renegotiated. If I was a Disney executive, I would go obsessive compulsive over this. I would stop at nothing and be agressive to get a new deal. I would ask the legal department to find things of Universal's interest the company could hold as ransom if they refuse to negotiate a new deal. I would purposely buy rights to things that Universal wants, dependent of, needs, or is of interest in just for leverage in negotiating with them. I would explore bartering options, joint ventures, and even granting certain Disney rights to them, depending on their negotiable flexibility!

The contract specifically mentions Avengers as an example of a family of characters so the lawyers would have a hard time with that one. There is also nothing in the contract about re-negotiation. The contract was written when Marvel was in really bad financial shape so it is strongly in Universal's favor. There is very little reason for Universal to consent to a re-negotiation. As for buying other things just to get leverage against Universal, it really isn't worth doing. They would have to dump a ton of money to buy those properties, then probably dump a ton more to buy or change the contract and then dump even more money to actually build the attractions. There is just not enough to gain in doing that.

 

[doctornick]

It is not something lawyers can fight over. It is written in the contract plain as day. Your proposal of just buying stuff is about as silly as your idea of Disney getting Comcast to go along with spinning off their respective theme park units and merging them into a single joint venture.

I don't think that Disney would both with fighting anything or pushing the limits, but.... there is certainly legal gray area in terms of what is a "family" of a character already used by Universal.

 

[flavious27]

I want CL to stay as a DCA exclusive land, it won't dilute it.

 

[danlb_2000]

I don't think that Disney would both with fighting anything or pushing the limits, but.... there is certainly legal gray area in terms of what is a "family" of a character already used by Universal.

There may be a gray area with some characters but I don't think Ironman is one of them. It's hard to deny that Hulk, Captain America and Ironman are part of the Avengers family and Universal is clearly making significant use of Hulk and Captain America.