Al Lutz: Carsland for WDW, FLE not Bringing in Guests

[Unplugged]

I strongly feel that the Wall Street system cannot be fixed, It must be gotten rid of. I know saying that gets you labeled a Communist among some circles but that is what I feel. The constant growth/ROI/Cash-Hoarding system just is not sustainable long-term.

I agree with you. There are a lot of reasons many big companies are buying back their stock at volumes in the billions of $'s to remove it from the market. Tech companies like IBM and Dell have been doing it a lot lately and in fact, last I read, Dell is going private again. Once a big corporation is off the streets, they have so much more control in that they cannot be penalized for decisions by outside markets, but simply by unhappy customers. This should be the genuine ultimate driver, customer satisfaction. Right now, most major companies are driven not by the customer but by performance criteria set by Wall Street.

I can't tell you how many times my company has not just performed up to their announced revenue targets, but surpassed them, only to be devalued on Wall Street because the company didn't perform to their estimates. That's the most ridiculous thing ever.

 

[Longhairbear]

Well, they did recently plus the area by opening a Ghirardelli there. ... And one aspect of DCA 1.0 that was supposed to come in Phase II was a San Francisco-themed ToT behind the wharf. But we all know what happened there.

I am trying to recall what I read or heard about DCA phase II. Would you help refresh my memory?

 

[rle4lunch]

In retrospect, The worst decision it ever made.

I really doubt we'd have anything close to what we have today if it weren't for stock profits. Corporatism has it's downfalls (TDO Management), but it's still the main driver of expansion for companies when they want to grow.

 

[rle4lunch]

Well you know when someone has no argument when they start attempting to correct your grammar. Also read my sentence. I said I didn't find your experience very congruent. I used it just fine. Yes I could have said I find your experience incongruent as well but either way works. But either way, if you want someone to take you seriously, don't finish your argument by retorting with a grammar lesson.

Ugh, why argue anymore when you don't think my opinion matters? Obviously your's outweighs mine in your head, so it's fruitless. You'll always be right, I'll always be wrong. I told you how my family's visit went, how we were overwhelmed with HP Land, and underwhelmed with other things. God forbid I be unimpressed by a hokey Betty Boop and Dagwood Comic strip land, otherwise I'm branded as a troll and I'm making things up and never been there. Or be unimpressed that Mythos wasn't open half the day for some reason and that half the rides went down or there were refurbs going on to too many things at the same time, how dare I?!? I better not complain about the rude service and old Croissant I got at the CROISSANT Moon bakery? Well that's explainable, since it was right after the park opened, so why should it be fresh? plz.

So sorry that I didn't find it as immersive and inviting as Disney parks, I must be sniffing that pixie dust again right? In actuality, as far as that goes, DL CM's beat the crap out of WDW's CM's in being consumate professionals, so don't lump me in with the WDW crazed crowd. And yes, I found UnO's employee's more like going to a six flags. They didn't take ownership in the ''magic'' that they were supposed to be spreading. They were $10/hour workers and they showed. The HP land employee's were friendly, engaging and genuinely liked what they were doing it seems. Maybe they're still sniffing Hermoine's new potion though...

And the $70 lunch (the feast) we bought at the Three Broomsticks was mostly bland and overpriced, but hey, so are many of crap meals I've gotten at WDW. But to spend $70, I'd expect to get something good like you can get at Liberty Tree Tavern at WDW or a nice filet at the Blue Bayou in DL. Instead, I got bland chicken, field corn, and oversalted potatoes.

So, no, I'm not goint to continue positing my opinion of my experience since clearly I'm in the wrong and clearly don't know what I'm talking about or what my visit was like.

 

[baymenxpac]

The grass is always greener on the other side.

i know there have been a lot more posts since this one (back on page 39) which i haven't gotten to yet, but it's worth noting that the green was not always greener on the other side.

my father has been an occasional poster/long time lurker on the DIS boards (since the late '90s), and i vividly remember walking through the magic kingdom in the late '90s talking about the experiences he had read about at DLR on those boards, and how WDW had it made and openly taking pity on DLR. that's how much things have turned around in the last 15 years or so.

 

[Tom Morrow]

I would strongly back up your contention that Disney managers do NOT support CMs when they get involved in any sort of ugliness with guests. I know of NUMEROUS instances when CMs have been physically assaulted by guests and just by not allowing themselves to be injured further were terminated for defending themselves. I know CMs who have been spit on, told they should be dead etc. Very ugly behavior and management was just afraid of losing guests/$$$ (yes, that's all you are to Disney ... a shoutout here to my buddy Merfie who apparently got kicked off the DISBOARDS for telling folks that CMs really didn't wish them all a MAGICal day and Disney really didn't love them or their brats).

Yep, its definitely a fairly common thing, and I'll never understand the mentality behind throwing the CM under the bus and brushing off the situation. Many frontline managers are only in that position for a short term, and their one and only concern is how they can use their time in that role to make themselves look better on paper. This means things like getting a procedure that has been in use forever changed just because they can, so they can boast "look what I got accomplished!" on their resume'. Basically they are encouraged to prove themselves but are given too much power with little regard for the big picture.

They brush off these situations because -gasp- that implies something negative happened while they were in charge! But its absurd - why would a manager ever be scrutinized for enforcing the rules or protecting their cast members from things like assault?

Or, another example - management has the authority to bend the rules - so even if the operating manual for an attraction states that it should be closed if, say, a major show element stops working, the manager can choose to leave the attraction open anyway - and they do - because its easier to make themselves look better by saying "look how many people rode my attraction today!" than having to explain closing the attraction, even though it would be totally justified and show that they care...

 

[Rosso11]

In retrospect, The worst decision it ever made.

There more than likely would have been no Disneyland if this didn't happen.

 

[flynnibus]

Yep, its definitely a fairly common thing, and I'll never understand the mentality behind throwing the CM under the bus and brushing off the situation

Simple.. Disney puts the customer (no matter how wrong..) above their employees. stand behind the customer to a complete fault.

 

[twebber55]

Ugh, why argue anymore when you don't think my opinion matters? Obviously your's outweighs mine in your head, so it's fruitless. You'll always be right, I'll always be wrong. I told you how my family's visit went, how we were overwhelmed with HP Land, and underwhelmed with other things. God forbid I be unimpressed by a hokey Betty Boop and Dagwood Comic strip land, otherwise I'm branded as a troll and I'm making things up and never been there. Or be unimpressed that Mythos wasn't open half the day for some reason and that half the rides went down or there were refurbs going on to too many things at the same time, how dare I?!? I better not complain about the rude service and old Croissant I got at the CROISSANT Moon bakery? Well that's explainable, since it was right after the park opened, so why should it be fresh? plz.

So sorry that I didn't find it as immersive and inviting as Disney parks, I must be sniffing that pixie dust again right? In actuality, as far as that goes, DL CM's beat the crap out of WDW's CM's in being consumate professionals, so don't lump me in with the WDW crazed crowd. And yes, I found UnO's employee's more like going to a six flags. They didn't take ownership in the ''magic'' that they were supposed to be spreading. They were $10/hour workers and they showed. The HP land employee's were friendly, engaging and genuinely liked what they were doing it seems. Maybe they're still sniffing Hermoine's new potion though...

And the $70 lunch (the feast) we bought at the Three Broomsticks was mostly bland and overpriced, but hey, so are many of crap meals I've gotten at WDW. But to spend $70, I'd expect to get something good like you can get at Liberty Tree Tavern at WDW or a nice filet at the Blue Bayou in DL. Instead, I got bland chicken, field corn, and oversalted potatoes.

So, no, I'm not goint to continue positing my opinion of my experience since clearly I'm in the wrong and clearly don't know what I'm talking about or what my visit was like.

its one thing to say disney is more immersive its another to say uni is six flagish ...that is silly and uninformed

 

[TP2000]

my father has been an occasional poster/long time lurker on the DIS boards (since the late '90s), and i vividly remember walking through the magic kingdom in the late '90s talking about the experiences he had read about at DLR on those boards, and how WDW had it made and openly taking pity on DLR. that's how much things have turned around in the last 15 years or so.

I was at Disneyland a lot in the late 1990's, and posting about it on the old Usenet boards. Disneyland went through a very dark period, roughly 1998-2003, led by professional bozos Paul Pressler and Cynthia Harriss. Maintenance was slashed, park offerings declined, and they even tried running all the attractions on various late opening/early close schedules (Haunted Mansion, open from Noon to 7PM only, for example). Around 2001 they started getting really bad press about it, too, led by the Internet in general and Al Lutz in particular as a bandleader. It all changed very quickly, at breakneck speed, after Cynthia Harriss was fired in October, 2003 and they spent all of 2004 rehabbing the place and reversing a lot of Pressler's and Harriss' mandates.

My how things have changed. What I think is most alarming is that the similar problems at WDW seem to go much deeper, and be more systemic than what happened at Disneyland. And now with NextGen they've got this giant bureaucracy fueling the thing, and it would seem it won't just take getting a new Prez at the Orlando level to fix it. It seems more and more that it will take big change at the corporate level 3,000 miles away in Burbank to fix WDW.

And yet about 45 minutes down the Golden State Freeway from Burbank sits little, tiny Disneyland Resort, which seems to disprove that wacky theory of mine since you'd think being so close to Corporate headquarters it would be more in tune with Burbank's whims and wishes.

It's not an easy thing for a longtime Disney watcher like myself to figure out. But WDW needs serious help to get out of the pickle it is in.

 

[OFTeric]

@TP2000 you hit the nail on the head.

 

[Disneyhead'71]

I was at Disneyland a lot in the late 1990's, and posting about it on the old Usenet boards. Disneyland went through a very dark period, roughly 1998-2003, led by professional bozos Paul Pressler and Cynthia Harriss. Maintenance was slashed, park offerings declined, and they even tried running all the attractions on various late opening/early close schedules (Haunted Mansion, open from Noon to 7PM only, for example). Around 2001 they started getting really bad press about it, too, led by the Internet in general and Al Lutz in particular as a bandleader. It all changed very quickly, at breakneck speed, after Cynthia Harriss was fired in October, 2003 and they spent all of 2004 rehabbing the place and reversing a lot of Pressler's and Harriss' mandates.

My how things have changed. What I think is most alarming is that the similar problems at WDW seem to go much deeper, and be more systemic than what happened at Disneyland. And now with NextGen they've got this giant bureaucracy fueling the thing, and it would seem it won't just take getting a new Prez at the Orlando level to fix it. It seems more and more that it will take big change at the corporate level 3,000 miles away in Burbank to fix WDW.

And yet about 45 minutes down the Golden State Freeway from Burbank sits little, tiny Disneyland Resort, which seems to disprove that wacky theory of mine since you'd think being so close to Corporate headquarters it would be more in tune with Burbank's whims and wishes.

It's not an easy thing for a longtime Disney watcher like myself to figure out. But WDW needs serious help to get out of the pickle it is in.

I think that the big difference between DLR's dark ages and WDW's current dark age is that at DLR, almost everyone at DLR except for the top brass saw the problems and knew what was causing them. But at WDW it seems as if everyone at TDO has been drinking the Kool-Aid. They really don't think they have a problem. And anytime they are confronted with the issues they completely misinterpret the cause. And can produce an internally produced spreadsheet to prove it. That is exactly what the top brass at DLR did (People are too unsophisticated to "get" DCA, the weather, etc.) That is why no one in the that group of top brass still works in TWDC. But they can't fire EVERYONE at TDO, and the cancer has metastasized through the entire organization. And with a leader like Iger, and his techno solves all problems mentality, driving the bus, things look pretty bleak. They are so distanced from what the traditional core values of The Parks and Resorts division of The Walt Disney Co. are, that it might be impossible to steer the Titanic away from that iceberg. They are still going full steam ahead straight at it.

 

[WDW1974]

I am trying to recall what I read or heard about DCA phase II. Would you help refresh my memory?

You likely only heard about it online. Disney was convinced that DCA was going to be such a huge hit right out of the gates (if this were anotherdisneyplace.com at another time some dude named Darkbeer would come in with the infamous George Kalogridis quote to the LA Times about daily capacity crowds and guests having to settle for DL!) that Phase II would open in 2006-07 and would consist of a mini San Fran area with ToT and another C-Ticket level attraction (was never described to me at the time, but later I heard it would be a simulated cable car ride up and down the hills of the area) and with the Armageddon effects show developed for DSP in the spot where there's an empty soundstage (Millionaire was there for like 18 months!) The only other thing mentioned was a 'possible' lagoon show based on the surf culture and music of CA.

That info all came from two top Imagineers in November and December of 2000 who were working on the project. But the idea was that nothing in terms of construction would happen until at least 2005 when they figured DL would be getting lots of attention for its 50th, so they'd be able to disrupt DCA ops by having construction. But that's it. You likely will see 1-2 pieces of art appear in a coffee table book now that DCA 2.0 is standing on its own.

 

[marni1971]

RnRC was proposed waaaay back for DCA too. Circa 2003/4 I think.