Al Lutz: Carsland for WDW, FLE not Bringing in Guests

[DocMcHulk]

Just to be fair, if you have a family of only 4 (like me), then yes, it MIGHT be cheaper to stay on property at a "value" resort with all things being considered.

But if you have more than 4, or you are going with a group of friends, it will probably be cheaper to stay off property.

 

[rle4lunch]

Just to be fair, if you have a family of only 4 (like me), then yes, it MIGHT be cheaper to stay on property at a "value" resort with all things being considered.

But if you have more than 4, or you are going with a group of friends, it will probably be cheaper to stay off property.

Or stay at Shades of Green like we do. game,set,match. lol

 

[Genie of the Lamp]

Just to be fair, if you have a family of only 4 (like me), then yes, it MIGHT be cheaper to stay on property at a "value" resort with all things being considered.

But if you have more than 4, or you are going with a group of friends, it will probably be cheaper to stay off property.

We have a family of four to, so anymore with increasing disney trip prices, when it comes to deciding which hotel to stay at we are going to start using my mom's Starwood Hotel Points and just stay at the S&D from now on until things change (we perfer the Swan). That way we are on property and can walk to Epcot and DHS (bus ride times to MK aren't too bad as well as AK, only bad one is DTD) which is why 8/9 times we've been to the World we have stayed at the EPCOT resorts. Plus it enables us to easily rent a taxi and take it to UNI for our pleasure. Other time we stayed at SS since we used my Aunt's and Uncle's DVC points to get a 3 br villa there.

 

[Pixiedustmaker]

I don't think anyone is too surprised that FLE didn't bring a flood of new guests. That was never its real purpose.

Didn't they spend something like $600 million on FLE? I think that everything that gets $ in the parks is done to either maintain the park, add an amazing new attraction, or moderately upgrade/plus an existing attraction . . . all of these activities will, in the end, bring in new guests, or at the very least, maintain guest levels to prevent loss of guests to a certain degree.

Beyond just a fresh coat of paint on an existing attraction queue, FLE will, in the end, add two new rides and a restaurant . . . and they advertised it, it is kinda silly to say that it wasn't built to bring in new guests, IMHO, unless you mean try to keep more guests away from Potterland and prevent attendance erosion.

It is just as silly as saying that a given restaurant that refurbed an old wing and added new seating, but that they don't think it'll do anything for business, now or in the future.

According to Al, TDO is upset that FLE hasn't brought in more guests (who wouldn't want to fill the hotel rooms?!?).

If they aren't upset, then FLE was meant to be mediocre and have no effect on guest attendance levels at all!?

 

[TP2000]

The local press here in Southern California is running stories today that say Disneyland is the engine behind the overall growth in US Disney Parks attendance.

Headline and story from the OC Register this morning... Anaheim Parks Lead Disney's Turnstile Boost http://www.ocregister.com/entertainment/disney-494741-percent-parks.html

A few article highlights;
American Disney Theme Park combined attendance up 4%, due to soaring Anaheim numbers
Cars Land is the engine behind the growth in Anaheim
Iger is thrilled with Disneyland Resort performance:

Bob Iger, the company's chief executive, said the Anaheim parks have experienced a "dramatic increase" in attendance and spending since the June debut of the $1 billion makeover of Disney California Adventure.

AND

"We're definitely seeing strong results in California from the significantly changed Disney California Adventure," Iger said

Jay Rasulo, on the same conference call, had more muted words for WDW's performance for the same period:

Jay Rasulo, the company's chief financial officer, said Disney World's attendance went up "a hair" during that time period. However, visits to Disneyland Resort's two parks helped drive up business.

Article linked above has more info and statistics on increased spending and hotel occupancy in Anaheim. Thanks Cars Land!

 

[RSoxNo1]

I don't think anyone is too surprised that FLE didn't bring a flood of new guests. That was never its real purpose.

The rather "blah" satisfaction scores...those they for some reason seem surprised by.

As for resort rooms, AoA came online fully in September, so it was open for the full quarter. It clearly didn't cause too much of an increase in occupancy resort wide.

Perhaps they would be hire if everything was working in Journey of the Little Mermaid or people could get into eat at Be Our Guest. What I think is ridiculous is to expect Carsland level scores. Visually I'd say that it's comparable, but without the E-ticket the satisfaction scores are going to be lower. Perhaps if both rides were open simultaneously the scores would be better as well.

 

[WDW1974]

Just a note on staying at Disney vs. not. It has gotten to the point where even 40-60% off CM/AP/FLA resident rates don't come close to making it a value.

I know many Pixie Dust addicts couldn't see themselves anywhere off-property. To that I would only say there is hope. I spent about three months of 1999 at WDW resorts (most deluxe, some mods and a few value nights), I know all about addiction. But you can get past it. You just have to be willing to admit you have a problem. And, yes, giving Disney $$$ for lodging at their absurd pricepoints on a regular basis is the sign of a major problem.

On my last visit, I stayed at the lovely Rosen Shingle Creek. A true 4-star deluxe resort about 15 minutes from Disney or UNI and right near SW ... two rooms ... TWO ... for $43 a piece or $86 for two using Priceline's Name your Own Price bidding service. I think my best CM friend offer was for one of the All Stars for $70-something for ONE room.

And someone mentioned Orange Lake. I stayed in a true vacation home there (the only Disney accomodation of that size would be a grand villa) for $61 a night for almost a week in October of 2011.

People are throwing hundreds (in some cases, thousands) of dollars away, so they can suckle at Mickey's teet and get tucked into bed by a warm white glove.

In this economy, I don't get how people can be as frivolous with their money like I was in the 90s.

 

[Mammymouse]

I was told that the union the performers belong to is one of the highest paying and that Disney is looking to not pay the performers anymore. I was told that they are considering moving the show to another spot, it hasn't been 100% decided yet.

Of course this is all rumor and should be taken as such. I can't confirm any of this. I am just repeating what I was told.

I would dare to guess that the raise that just one Disney executive got last year would be more that what the entire group of actors got paid all year for their FotLK performances.

 

[MattM]

Just a note on staying at Disney vs. not. It has gotten to the point where even 40-60% off CM/AP/FLA resident rates don't come close to making it a value.

I know many Pixie Dust addicts couldn't see themselves anywhere off-property. To that I would only say there is hope. I spent about three months of 1999 at WDW resorts (most deluxe, some mods and a few value nights), I know all about addiction. But you can get past it. You just have to be willing to admit you have a problem. And, yes, giving Disney $$$ for lodging at their absurd pricepoints on a regular basis is the sign of a major problem.

On my last visit, I stayed at the lovely Rosen Shingle Creek. A true 4-star deluxe resort about 15 minutes from Disney or UNI and right near SW ... two rooms ... TWO ... for $43 a piece or $86 for two using Priceline's Name your Own Price bidding service. I think my best CM friend offer was for one of the All Stars for $70-something for ONE room.

And someone mentioned Orange Lake. I stayed in a true vacation home there (the only Disney accomodation of that size would be a grand villa) for $61 a night for almost a week in October of 2011.

People are throwing hundreds (in some cases, thousands) of dollars away, so they can suckle at Mickey's teet and get tucked into bed by a warm white glove.

In this economy, I don't get how people can be as frivolous with their money like I was in the 90s.

Agree with this. People who snub at the idea of spending 150$/night rack rate for a 4 star hotel have no problem paying 139 MAGICal dollars/night for Port Orleans resort. Thing is, you can stay at 4 star resorts for about the same price. Rosen Shingle Creek, like you mentioned, the JW Marriott, Champions Gate, sometimes even the Waldorf and the Ritz come down to that level, at rack rate! Not to mention how you can steal rooms at these resorts through Priceline, though many people are afraid of it.

 

[angelmichellexx]

Why can't there be Pixar Place...

 

[MichWolv]

Wow that Sinbad ride looked amazing and so did their Splash! Watching all these videos of rides from the international parks is making my love for WDW slowly decrease. I'm never going to stop going to WDW for the simple fact that its the closest park to me, but I am considering taking less frequent trips so I can experience the parks in other countries.

Can someone explain if each Disney park has their own department on how/what to spend money on, or if there is one centralized department that tells each park what to do? I just don't understand why such a well loved/well known company would have such a huge difference of quality between their own parks.

The Sindbad ride is good, but not amazing at all. I rode it twice because i fond it interesting, and concluded I don't need to ride it again if I ever go back.

 

[DocMcHulk]

And someone mentioned Orange Lake. I stayed in a true vacation home there (the only Disney accomodation of that size would be a grand villa) for $61 a night for almost a week in October of 2011.

That was me

According to their site, a one bedroom villa is going for $101.57 in October of this year. A two bedroom villa is $119.57.

By comparison, Pop Century would be 139.98 for a "standard" hotel room.

 

[Pentacat]

On my last visit, I stayed at the lovely Rosen Shingle Creek. A true 4-star deluxe resort about 15 minutes from Disney or UNI and right near SW ... two rooms ... TWO ... for $43 a piece or $86 for two using Priceline's Name your Own Price bidding service. I think my best CM friend offer was for one of the All Stars for $70-something for ONE room.

I was able to book a room at the Waldorf in May of 2011 for somewhere under $150/night from LastMinuteTravel. There was an issue with the AC in my "standard" room on the second night and they bumped me up to a Suite for the remaining three nights without even batting an eye. Even without that upgrade the comparable on property would be the GF at well over $400/night. And calling the GF comparable to the Waldorf is a joke, it was superior in every way except the location. The service at that hotel was so good it was almost Early 90's Poly kind of great....sigh.

The ONLY thing that I miss about staying on property is the convenience on not having to pay for parking, that could be easily fixed if Disney just implemented some kind of e-pass toll system at the parking lots. That may not fit into there current Vacation Gulag thinking though. Of course if I could pay for my parking with my sweet new wrist band...I may have finally found my first value add of NGEMM+!



Also, had a great stay later that year at the Bonnet Creek Hilton, and I believe that was somewhere around $75/night.

 

[Lee]

...it is kinda silly to say that it wasn't built to bring in new guests, IMHO, unless you mean try to keep more guests away from Potterland and prevent attendance erosion.

I don't want to get deep into this, since it was discussed to death years ago.

But, the FLE, which has been in development since the early 2000s, was conceived as a way to open up that area in an attempt to increase MK capacity, relieve congestion in FL, and to replace the "temporary" Toon Town.

It was never seen as an attendance driver. For that they would have gone much bigger, with at least one E, which was my complaint when the current plan was first seen.

MK doesn't need an attendance boost, it just needs to not lose any more guests to Uni. MM+ will help that, Belle and Mermaid won't.

 

[Pentacat]

I don't want to get deep into this, since it was discussed to death years ago.

But, the FLE, which has been in development since the early 2000s, was conceived as a way to open up that area in an attempt to increase MK capacity, relieve congestion in FL, and to replace the "temporary" Toon Town.

I never got the impression that FL was so badly overcrowded that it was the most desperate in need of expansion. If they had spent the money updating TL, which REALLY needs it at this point, and pulling some of that crowd to another section of the park it could have had the same effect. I'm not saying that the FL expansion was a mistake but what they really need is another E-ticket on the TL side of the park to help pull the crowds over that way. Look at how bad crowds get over by Splash/Thunder Mountain, that side of the park is heavy with the best/biggest attractions.

 

[Alien]

I never got the impression that FL was so badly overcrowded that it was the most desperate in need of expansion. If they had spent the money updating TL, which REALLY needs it at this point, and pulling some of that crowd to another section of the park it could have had the same effect. I'm not saying that the FL expansion was a mistake but what they really need is another E-ticket on the TL side of the park to help pull the crowds over that way. Look at how bad crowds get over by Splash/Thunder Mountain, that side of the park is heavy with the best/biggest attractions.

ALIEN ENCOUNTER SIMULATOR!!!!!

 

[PeterAlt]

Can somebody please explain how when Eisner left, plans were to fully renovate and modernize all of the MK classic attractions as well as constructing two new mountain peeks (one for where FLE is now and another along the Seven Seas Lagoon opposite of the Polynesian Resort in Adventureland) and of all these things that were planned ONLY the Haunted Mansion plan reached full realization?

How did we get from a great visionary plan to the mess we're in now?

 

[devoy1701]

I never got the impression that FL was so badly overcrowded that it was the most desperate in need of expansion. If they had spent the money updating TL, which REALLY needs it at this point, and pulling some of that crowd to another section of the park it could have had the same effect. I'm not saying that the FL expansion was a mistake but what they really need is another E-ticket on the TL side of the park to help pull the crowds over that way. Look at how bad crowds get over by Splash/Thunder Mountain, that side of the park is heavy with the best/biggest attractions.

The area between HM, Pan, and IASW was arguably the worst/most congested area of the MK.

 

[Alien]

Can somebody please explain how when Eisner left, plans were to fully renovate and modernize all of the MK classic attractions as well as constructing two new mountain peeks (one for where FLE is now and another along the Seven Seas Lagoon opposite of the Polynesian Resort in Adventureland) and of all these things that were planned ONLY the Haunted Mansion plan reached full realization?

How did we get from a great visionary plan to the mess we're in now?

I love Eisner and hate iger.. but ill try to not be biased here
Eisner got so much accomplished cause he was motivated to make the parks great, iger tried to follow up on Eisner's traditions but got way to ahead of himself

 

[71jason]

Agree with this. People who snub at the idea of spending 150$/night rack rate for a 4 star hotel have no problem paying 139 MAGICal dollars/night for Port Orleans resort. Thing is, you can stay at 4 star resorts for about the same price. Rosen Shingle Creek, like you mentioned, the JW Marriott, Champions Gate, sometimes even the Waldorf and the Ritz come down to that level, at rack rate! Not to mention how you can steal rooms at these resorts through Priceline, though many people are afraid of it.

In fairness, just because you see attitudes like that on the boards, doesn't necessarily reflect the real world. While TAFKAPI and Flamingo Crossing sit empty, tourist-oriented restaurants continue to pop up like mushrooms along 192 near Orange Lake (over a dozen in 3 years, Panera and Bonefish just opened, Chevy's is coming!). There also will soon be a TJ Maxx and a Ross side-by-side, aimed squarely at international guests. Things like that tell as much about WDW's occupancy numbers as anything the company releases in a spin doctored shareholder report.