Al Lutz: Carsland for WDW, FLE not Bringing in Guests

[lazyboy97o]

The contract was written when Marvel was in really bad financial shape so it is strongly in Universal's favor.

To be fair, it was quite favorable to Marvel at the time. They gave Universal a deal it would be hard to pass up, so Marvel secured themselves a consistent, nearly guaranteed revenue stream.

I don't think that Disney would both with fighting anything or pushing the limits, but.... there is certainly legal gray area in terms of what is a "family" of a character already used by Universal.

MARVEL AGREEMENT BETWEEN MCA INC. AND MARVEL ENTERTAINMENT GROUP
IV. B. 1. a. 1. i. East of The Mississippi - any other theme park is limited to using characters not currently being used by MCA at the time such other license is granted. [For purpose of this subsection and subsection iv, a character is “being used by MCA” if (x) it or another character of the same “family” (e.g., any member of THE FANTASTIC FOUR, THE AVENGERS or villains associated with a hero being used) is more than an incidental element of an attraction, is presented as a costumed character, or is more than an incidental element of the theming of a retail store or food facility; and, (y) in addition, if such character or another character from the same “family” is an element in any MCA marketing during the previous year. Any character who is only used as a costume character will not be considered to be “being used by MCA” unless it appears as more than an incidental element in MCA’s marketing.
What grey area?

 

[MattM]

Do tell, how are you getting $99/night for a Moderate Resort. That's a great rate. Inquiring minds want to know!

I think he meant in 2009. The recession was good for some things, i.e. low priced hotel rooms!

 

[MattM]

In fairness, just because you see attitudes like that on the boards, doesn't necessarily reflect the real world. While TAFKAPI and Flamingo Crossing sit empty, tourist-oriented restaurants continue to pop up like mushrooms along 192 near Orange Lake (over a dozen in 3 years, Panera and Bonefish just opened, Chevy's is coming!). There also will soon be a TJ Maxx and a Ross side-by-side, aimed squarely at international guests. Things like that tell as much about WDW's occupancy numbers as anything the company releases in a spin doctored shareholder report.

Oh, no doubt. I know that overall, Orange County (and Osceola) have been putting up solid hotel occupancy rates. My only point was that the same people who shun spending money unnecessarily on a upper level hotel do not mind spending the same amount of money on a far inferior hotel because it is on property. And I'm not against staying on property, we do it regularly.

No doubt the west end of 192 near the 429 has been exploding with development lately...and not all cheesy souvenir shops, etc. Very few, in fact.

 

[michaelnyc]

Fantasyland was never geared towards toddlers. Such a focus is the antithesis of what sparked Disneyland.

THANK YOU

 

[Disneyhead'71]

re: Marvel in Uni.; Disney really has to play nice with Uni and more specifically Comcast simply because of the fact that Comcast is the single largest distributor of Disney's TV Network Operations (e.g., ESPN, ESPN2, ABC, ABC Family, Disney Channel and Disney XD). Considering that ESPN is TWDC's cash cow, there is no way that they would rock the boat for a theme park attraction in one of their 5 and soon to me 6 worldwide resorts.

 

[Mouse Detective]

I think it's been mentioned before that both sides are pretty happy with the deal, regardless of whether or not a new ride/land goes into DL. Uni knows what the franchise is worth, and TWDC knows it's a price not worth paying.

Well put. And if Disney was really as anxious as PeterAlt feels that they are about installing Marvel rides, they'd have done one by now in California where there are no hindrances.

 

[WDW1974]

Correct - which is why I value what you see people ride and what they skip each trip as more revealing. If you don't make time for it, it's obviously not as important as the attraction you do make time for. And there are plenty of Americans who see it and go 'huh' and don't ride again.

Tds for all it's praise has several of those... Storm rider, sinbad, Raging spirits, aquatopia

Heck, if looking at just attractions people like to repeat, dca v2 beats Disney sea. 3 of Disney sea's top attractions are even shared with dca if you trade journey for rsr

Well, there aren't plenty of Americans who even visit TDR. In five days at the resort, the only Americans I saw were my friends who now live in Tokyo. Not a one other than that. A handful on Canadians and Aussies.

But most of the people I know go and love it ... it is a classic in the Disney way of old.

None of the other attractions you listed are 'can't misses' by my standards. Storm Rider is decent, but sorta melds with Wild Arctic at SW. Not bad, but not great. And Raging Spirits is a fun little coaster that looks great at night, but only worth riding because of its single rider line. Aquatopia is more fun than it looks. But I may have been enjoying it more because of my friend's wild child 5-year-old son who loved it and made it more of an adventure and the perfectly gloomy day when we rode it with Tokyo Bay just over the horizon.

I don't quite get your DCA/TDS comparison, though.

 

[WDW1974]

Since we're on the topic of FLE, what in the world ever happened to that dragon?

He happily is living out his elder years with his new dragon pal (Sharon) up the road in Hogsmeade ... I believe he may have a restraining order against a certain Disney Parks Blogger!

 

[WDW1974]

If Avatar is "off the rails" again, the alternative could be worse, based on yesterday's news.

Oh, if you haven't heard... Bob Iger announced a plan to over-saturate and completely overdo the Star Wars brand. He was quoted as saying that several Star Wars movies are being scripted - the sequel trilogy (episodes 7-9) AS WELL AS a couple more stand-alone Star Wars spin-off movies focusing on various Star Wars characters. For example, one movie will be about the life of Yoda. People with good credentials are being chosen by Disney to work in these Star Wars projects. The spinoff movies are to be released at the same time as the sequel trilogy so people will have a choice of more than one Star Wars film playing at the theater at the same time. And that's on top of their planned live action TV series and animated series. So I see them over hyping it to the point that people could start to hate Star Wars. With Avatar gone, what a "perfect" replacement that could borrow its sci-fi theme and alien animals.

When this happens don't forget who said it first!

You aren't the first ... others here (and elsewhere) have suggested it. And oversaturation is what will happen and Dlsney will kill the Golden Goose. This is what the company has been great at for the last 15 years.

And I am no Star Wars geek, but I have no desire to see ''Bobba: Teen Galaxy Jumping Machine!''

 

[Genie of the Lamp]

He happily is living out his elder years with his new dragon pal (Sharon) up the road in Hogsmeade ... I believe he may have a restraining order against a certain Disney Parks Blogger!

Would that certain Disney Parks blogger be Crazy Gary Buchanan (You can make a sequel to the Reluctant Dragon and call it: "Crazy Gary and the Not So Reluctant Dragon)? I hear he lives in his mother's basement and plays Dungeons and Dragons 24/7 when he ain't bloggin on the Parks Blog. On a serious note Mr.Spirit, I mentioned in the Disney Imagineering Dragon thread that the Dragon they used for the Grand opening in NFL would be incorporated into the possible rumored nightime show in Avatarland. IF Avatarland happens, would we expect to see this Dragon turned banshee involved with this show? I know you don't want to talk about Avatarland but I just want an idea of the credibility here. So back to Carsland, if Luigi's gets canned, what possible ride could you see replace it? Is it even possible they do nothing and just go with MJJ & RSR as the only attractions in that land/expansion? I'd like to here your thoughts pretty please.

 

[WDW1974]

I had never seen pictures of the CM costumes for the Carthay restaurant so thanks for posting that. Combined with the hair, it really just seems to work. I can't think of any waiter costumes at WDW establishments that are so elaborate and so perfectly fit the setting.

There is a certain aura of professionalism which comes out when CMs are in fancy costumes, are nicely groomed, etc. Sadly, "the Disney Look" has been watered down so much in WDW, that most managers don't care, and therefore most CM's don't either (or they're not even entirely sure what the concept of the Disney Look is). I saw a CM in Tomorrowland last year wearing white Nike running sneakers with his costume (looked horrible, can't believe he was allowed on stage). I frequently see trendy sunglasses on CMs that are really jarring when seen with the rest of the costume (bling-y silver sunglasses don't seem to go with turn of the century Main St., transportation outfits) Since CMs take costumes home and wash them themselves, they are often not pressed or just look worn and tattered. No one seems to care much for these glaring show issues, however.

The Disney Look has been so watered down that it barely matters at WDW. Slovenly is in. And, yes, that's bad show. Costuming has been dumbed down (not helped by the fact CMs now take them off property). Guidelines are treated as suggestions. And often managers appear on onstage wearing Walmart (or at best, Sears) clothing with lanyards dangling and huckleberries and iPhones attatched.

I often rip guests who look like they aspire to be on Jersey Shore or Honey Boo Boo, but CMs can often be just as bad.

I long for the days when 'suits' actually ... ya know ... wore them!

 

[flynnibus]

Well, there aren't plenty of Americans who even visit TDR. In five days at the resort, the only Americans I saw were my friends who now live in Tokyo. Not a one other than that. A handful on Canadians and Aussies.

Ok, I'll rephrase.. I've never seen a trip report on this forum or micechat where people fawned over sinbad and made it a point to ride multiple times. This thread is the first time I've seen anyone gaga for it. People don't say it's ugly or bad - it just has little appeal to people.

I don't quite get your DCA/TDS comparison, though.

Look at what the true 'must haves' at TDS are
Indy - (but same as DLR)
Journey - (as I said previously.. if you trade RSR for journey)
ToT - improved version compared to DCA, but at the core the same
TSMM - DCA...
I'll throw 20k in there too - that's really the only one without a near comparison

At it's core.. Disney Sea is visually stunning, but not that powerful attraction-wise. It's about the placemaking, the visuals, the attention to detail, and the shows that make it such a unique experience. Attractions?? not so much. 20k, and improved ToT (for the preshow), and a horse trade on Journey.. and what else do you have that makes TDS standout attraction wise?

Compare to DCA.. where you also get
Soarin..
Screamin..
Grizzy River Run..

A case could be made that most of DCA's supporting cast of attractions is better too.. if nothing else, much larger list of attractions. I mean come on.. what's the latest additions to TDS attraction wise? Turtle Talk (a forced squeeze in the steam liner), flying carpets spinner, and TSMM. Not exactly awe inspiring stuff. ToT being the last real impact attraction.. and that was a clone.. but at least they improved it.

Is DCA = TDS? No.. I'm not saying that. But attraction wise.. it is a B-player...

Unless you're gonna tell me you spend the majority of your vacation in Mermaid lagoon

 

[Cody5242]

I may have skipped over it but what what is the back up/replacement for Avatar?

 

[WDW1974]

Adventureland in Paris has so many themes, there is nothing that won't fit (or nothing that will, depending upon how you look at it). Arabian entrance, Carribbean pirates, south pacific treehouse, Indiana Jones coaster, Lion King and Jungle Book restaurants. It's a freakin' mess, or an eclectic masterpiece...take your pick.

I'd call it a masterpiece ... precisely because it has all that stuff and none of it clashes. ... None of it looks as bad as say the MK's A-land when they dropped the Aladdin spinner in the center.

 

[WDW1974]

Are you saying that they're coming out with more retro Epcot t-shirts?

Most assuredly so. Folks will buy them, right?

 

[WDW1974]

I don't think anyone is too surprised that FLE didn't bring a flood of new guests. That was never its real purpose.

The rather "blah" satisfaction scores...those they for some reason seem surprised by.

I don't know why either. ... My reaction after seeing it was 'BLAH!!!' ... well actually since it was the holidays it was really 'Blah, Humbug!'

 

[WDW1974]

We've stayed in a 2-bedroom at Orange Lake for half that.

We've stayed in a 2-bedroom suite at Wyndham Bonnet Creek (essentially on WDW property) for under $120/night. WBC is closer to DHS or DTD than, for example, the Grand Floridian.

WDW's "Value Resorts" are really expensive.

All things considered, it's understandable why AOA is not exactly packing them in.

All Stars become a value for me when they're $50 or less ... I've stayed for as little as $30 on CM rates. I believe the lowest regular rate there is now close to $90 a night. That's friggin absurd. In the last decade I've paid slightly more than that to stay at the WL and DAK Lodge and more than I've paid for PO and CS

 

[WDW1974]

All of the Bonnet Creek Resorts are truly beautiful. I didn't realize how big the property was until I attending a trade show there back in November. I wish they were able to work out an agreement to get some on-property perks, but regardless, I think our next stay at Disney World will be at a Bonnet Creek Property.

I have only spent time at the Hilton, but it is a very high caliber 4-star property and one of the nicest in O-Town.

It has the one thing that Disney's deluxes aim for, but don't come close to achieving anymore: class.

 

[WDW1974]

Can somebody please explain how when Eisner left, plans were to fully renovate and modernize all of the MK classic attractions as well as constructing two new mountain peeks (one for where FLE is now and another along the Seven Seas Lagoon opposite of the Polynesian Resort in Adventureland) and of all these things that were planned ONLY the Haunted Mansion plan reached full realization?

How did we get from a great visionary plan to the mess we're in now?

Most of those plans were Blue Sky ... there are plenty of plans now. The vast majority won't come close to happening.

 

[yoyoflamingo]

Most of those plans were Blue Sky ... there are plenty of plans now. The vast majority won't come close to happening.

Got to keep yourself busy with plans, otherwise there's a target on your back... though hopefully one day They realize they can actually use those plans to build/refurb/plus things with.