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A Terror-rific Spirited 13th (ToT fans have lots to fear)...

AEfx

Well-Known Member
What's the other motives then? They care so much about their fans and want to give us the best. I tend to agree with you but sorry this is wrong no matter which way the pie is sliced.
It may very well have to do with the expiring license in 2018. Given how several different successful shows lately ("Black Mirror", "Stranger Things", etc.) are constantly described in the first sentence or two of their summaries as modern "Twilight Zone" type programs, coupled with the fact that CBS is launching original programming via its streaming service starting next year, I think there is more to it.

Prediction: given that CBS is going to anchor this new streaming service with original programming unavailable elsewhere, starting with their flagship property, Star Trek, I have a feeling that Twilight Zone will be next for a reboot via this new service. They recently remastered the entire Twilight Zone library in HD on Blu-ray with an extensive box set - it's really the second most valuable classic series IP in it's library. Particularly since there is no aging cast to worry about paying or recasting, and the anthology nature easily luring big name stars and directors, it's really a no brainer.

But for some folks it's just easier to think that Bob Iger wakes up every morning thinking of new ways to "terrorize" Disney fans. I could totally speculate several scenarios based on the above information that are pretty viable reasons for this to occur, but with people at such a religious pitch over this, it's not worth the time because no one will even consider anything other than that which reinforces their existing hatred.
 
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jt04

Well-Known Member
Advertisement
Florida's is the best version of the ride.
Sorry, but your subjective opinion is flat wrong. Subjectively speaking.

I watched three videos of the Tokyo version and it is fantastic. Can't wait for the DL version. Perhaps every tower will get its own IP. Except TZ apparently.
 

IDInstitute

Well-Known Member
It may very well have to do with the expiring license in 2018. Given how several different successful shows lately ("Black Mirror", "Stranger Things", etc.) are constantly described in the first sentence or two of their summaries as modern "Twilight Zone" type programs, coupled with the fact that CBS is launching a new streaming service in January, I think there is more to it.

Prediction: given that CBS is going to anchor this new streaming service with original programming unavailable elsewhere, starting with their flagship property, Star Trek, I have a feeling that Twilight Zone will be next for a reboot via this new service. They recently remastered the entire Twilight Zone library in HD on Blu-ray with an extensive box set - it's really the second most valuable classic series IP in it's library. Particularly since there is no aging cast to worry about paying or recasting, and the anthology nature easily luring big name stars and directors, it's really a no brainer.

But for some folks it's just easier to think that Bob Iger wakes up every morning thinking of new ways to "terrorize" Disney fans. I could totally speculate several scenarios based on the above information that are pretty viable reasons for this to occur, but with people at such a religious pitch over this, it's not worth the time because no one will even consider anything other than that which reinforces their existing hatred.
CBS already has its streaming service CBS All Access that currently has the entire Twilight Zone series on it.
 

AEfx

Well-Known Member
CBS already has its streaming service CBS All Access that currently has the entire Twilight Zone series on it.
Thanks for the clarification. I should have been more specific - and I just checked, the original programming is launching in May 2017 now with Star Trek. I edited my post to correct so as not to confuse folks. ;)

I fully expect Twilight Zone to be the second show they relaunch exclusively on the service.
 

jt04

Well-Known Member
What's the other motives then? They care so much about their fans and want to give us the best. I tend to agree with you but sorry this is wrong no matter which way the pie is sliced.
It appears they are motivated to make the most fan pleasing attractions possible. At least judging by reaction and buzz around things like Frozen and Pandora and Star Wars Land etc.
 

lazyboy97o

Well-Known Member
Thanks for the clarification. I should have been more specific - and I just checked, the original programming is launching in May 2017 now with Star Trek. I edited my post to correct so as not to confuse folks. ;)

I fully expect Twilight Zone to be the second show they relaunch exclusively on the service.
The Twilight Zone reboots do not have the successful history of Star Trek. Nowhere has the licensing deal been mentioned and twenty-four years is an odd term.
 

AEfx

Well-Known Member
The Twilight Zone reboots do not have the successful history of Star Trek. Nowhere has the licensing deal been mentioned and twenty-four years is an odd term.
No, they don't - and it's been awhile since they tried. Which is another reason, given the success of the HD remaster, that I would be willing to bet money it's next up on the block for a reboot since they are mining their library for well-known IPs to get people to subscribe to the service. If they didn't, they would be stupid. It's the easiest show ever to reboot because it's just a concept of an anthology series that can be about and star anything or anyone.

The licensing deal was mentioned earlier in the thread several times.
 
The last ten pages or so are dumb.
Back in the United State of Brexit England.

I'm told as of very very very very very recent Guardians is green lit for the Energy building.
Energy is just as untouchable to me as the tower. And more so if it were redone along its original lines. I prefer Marvel in DHS over Future World.

GotG Tower is akin to 'Jeopardy Energy', it leaves a certain base more or less intact. GotG in EPCOT will be Horizons all over again, razing perhaps the second most iconic structure of EPCOT.
 

GoofGoof

Well-Known Member
This "untouchable" concept for certain attractions is a religion among some people. That's a shame. Disney knows better and changes attractions. Pirates, Haunted Mansion, Small World and others have received changes over the years. They become very stale without change. ToT will be changed. It's just a matter of what will replace Twilight Zone. As I've said, Tales From the Crypt would work for me but is far too intense for children. But GotG would work well I think.
When were Pirates, HM or Small World changed like this? We aren't talking about a minor tweak to ToT we are talking about changing literally everything but the ride system. You are way too hung up on IP. The other 3 classic rides you mentioned were not even based on an existing IP. Tower of Terror isn't a ride that promotes the Twilight Zone TV series. The TV series works well into the backstory of the ride, but it's really secondary to the rest of the experience.
I don't go along with the "perfectly themed" idea for ToT. It's going to change. There's no good reason for Disney to continue to promote a TV series that went off the air a half century ago. I'm confident they can theme ToT to GotG and make it every bit as good and better than the current attraction. After all, look at the amazing work they did with Frozen Ever After. Also, Meet The Robinsons or The Incredibles could work well in ToT.
The Tower itself is also a park icon. It's what you think of when you think of the park. It anchors an entire land and that land and the ride are really well themed. As close as we have to perfect at WDW. When you walk down the street towards the tower it looks like it's been there for years and it belongs there. This crazy eye soar they want to build will be an abomination in that setting. I just don't see how you can think adding a current IP to the existing attraction "works well". I know some here are critical of Disney for having too much focus on creating backstories for every little thing (like a shopping mall), but how do they explain the existence of this "GoTG building" in classic Hollywood.
 

GoofGoof

Well-Known Member
I think it's interesting how everyone in this discussion seems to be under the assumption that Sunset Blvd. will stay if ToT becomes Guardians. what's really there in Sunset Blvd?

The dated Beauty and the Beast show? That's in desperate need of some upsdates and new costumes. I love that show, but when I was there over the summer, the lack of passion in the performers was evident. Something has to be done with that show.

Rocking Rollercoaster? thats already supposed to be getting a retheme with Big hero 6 as a rumor ivr heard thrown around.

The entrance to Fantamic? Move some stuff around and maybe enter through the exit near the front of the park.

That's it. I absolutely hate the idea of ToT being rethemed, but I think we should stop thinking of how it would ruin Sunset Blvd and start picturing Sunset Blvd becoming Marvel Avenue. Replace Beauty and the Beast with a stunt show or use thay space for smaller scale attraction (a dark side or flat ride probably). Retheme the buildings and shops.

If they go with the Tower retheme, I'm almost positive it will be at least partially because Disney wants to make a Marvel land as the next big step. One ride in epcot is one thing, but there's just sooo many reasons why they could never build a whole land there. That would explain turning their attention to the tower.
I agree that Sunset Blvd would have to be re-themed if they go forward with Guardians of the Tower of Terror. It wouldn't fit in any way. The problem I have is that the park needs sooooo much work. Why take away the one section of the park that works beautifully both in theme and in transition from the rest of the park? Add a GoTG e-ticket and/or a Marvel based land to the expansion pad behind Indy Stunt Show and/or in place of the stunt show. They could also use the mostly empty Animation Courtyard area. There is also space backstage behind that area. The point is they really should leave ToT alone, keep the Sunset Blvd theme and freshen up the Beauty and the Beast stadium and Fantasmic with new and/or updated shows. I wouldn't mind a rethemed of rockin roller coaster either.
 

xdan0920

Think for yourselfer
Premium Member
Observation: the Florida Tower will have had a pretty good run. At this point, it's been in operation nearly as long as 20,000 Leagues was
Good bit of trivia. Kind of startling to realize how long it's been since WDW opened a game changing attraction though.

For every one who threatens to stop visiting the parks, there's one who visits religiously, loves this new rumor and can't get enough of it.
Ironically, these are the same people.
 

WDW1974

Well-Known Member
Original Poster
Just some thoughts since some people, including some I respect like @marni1971, are hearing conflicting information.

Went back to the two top sources on this. I asked last night what percentage chance do they give of it happening. After talking or corresponding with them, I'm saying the chances are over 70%. If you recall, when I (and I alone much like when I released the entire SDL lineup, or Georgie K taking over at WDW or, in my LP.com days, Harry Potter taking over Amity and a train connecting both UNI parks, or SDL not opening on time and the reasons why or ... well, I just like patting myself on the tushie when I don't have a fanboi minion here to do it for me!) broke the GotG news to start with I gave a 90% chance in Anaheim and a 50% chance in O-Town. See how that worked out.

Oh, and please tell my fans in the Twitverse that I never said Disney was getting a fifth gate (ever) or attractions based on the Disney Villains etc. And that Disney did indeed search for potential buyers/investors for P&R beginning in 2007 or right after Bob Iger became comfortable as the head of TWDC. The fact it didn't happen and Disney didn't put out a press release in no way changes things. Truth is truth, even if it happens in a forest with no one around to see or hear.

Also, I don't know who (maybe @WDWFigment or @RSoxNo1? was someone familiar ...) said my batting average was about .500. While that would be impressive, indeed, the reality is it's much closer to .900. And when I am wrong about something, almost -- but not -- everytime, it is because decisions change late in the game. If I had been posting on a Disney site in 1972 and was gushing about the amazing Thunder Mesa expansion coming to the MK, ask yourself would I have been wrong? It really is that simple.

I am trying to ascertain why people still are pushing the Guardians to UoE deal and without any solid info all I can do is speculate that some folks' employment might ride on whether their version of misplacing Iger and Chappie's prized IP gets selected. Believe me, I am not saying plans don't exist. I have seen them. But that means nothing. The WRE had plans ... so did the DVC resort where the Four Seasons sits. Both of those examples were much further developed than any dancing trees at EPCOT when the plug got pulled.

It also may help if you get some basic fundamental points. For instance, despite how negative reactions have been to DCA's makeover, the sales at DCA's Tower gift shop have more than tripled this fall. Again, I'll let an 'insider' take over the narrative:

"Colglazier and Chapek were both caught off guard by the blowback on the Guardians remake, but it's important to remember these are two men who have no real passion for the theme park industry, they very rarely visit Disneyland in their time off, and they have no personal experience working in a Disney theme park with paying guests. They simply have no idea what Disney theme park customers like, and they have no gut instinct to go off of when it's time to decide on something like this. This decision was based on IP investment and potential future merch sales, and not much more. WDI is happy to go along because a big E Ticket project like this allows Imagineers to stay on the payroll, pad their portfolio, and prevent themselves from being laid off just after a new theme park opens (Shanghai). Disneyland Resort attendance and spending has continued to be up over forecasts by low double digit percentages since the 60th ended in September; the truth is Anaheim's numbers continue to be wildly successful while WDW is stagnant. Those big Anaheim numbers continue to thrill Chapek and make Colglazier feel he's making the right decisions, regardless of what the fans are saying online."

How many UoE "Ellen's Final Adventure' shirts do you think they can sell? How many mugs, pins and keychains? How much work would the design studio need? You pull a ToT GotG makeover and all that work is covered.

Everything comes down to $$$ with Disney (RapidFill anyone?), like most companies. You may look at EPCOT's laughably outdated Future World attractions like they exist for satire. But all Disney sees is that EPCOT is phenomenally profitable and busy due to its food, beverage and merchandise sales. There is absolutely nothing at wrong with EPCOT if you look at it from a strictly financial viewpoint. The staleness and emptiness are all washed away by the vomit of tourists and bumpkins who have spent the day drinking around the world.

Now, look at plans for adding GotG to EPCOT at a cost that would make RSRs look cheap by comparison.

Now, look at DHS from Disney's perspective. It is a construction zone and despite any public bravado is getting hammered in the Guest satisfaction surveys and Disney is giving people freebies left and right when they complain that the park is a construction pit with nothing to do.

Now, think about how little it will cost to reskin the ToT. Look at Anaheim for the simplicity of it all. Ask yourself if you really think Disney wants to spent over $400 million to build an attraction at EPCOT or a tiny fraction of that to bring the GotG to DHS.

For everybody here who will be ******** about Tower leaving, think about all the newbies and one-and-dones who aren't expecting ToT to exist to begin with. They'll all be running to that park for the new Marvel ride. Sad and pathetic, but also the reality.

You are working in Burbank. You have no experience or passion for theme parks. You care. But you care in a certain construct. Why would you ever pick EPCOT and largely new build that would take years versus this no-brainer? You know you wouldn't. The fact these people shouldn't be in positions to make such decisions is another matter entirely.

Finally, want to be crystal clear, Disney CAN use GotG in WDW. In any park. And they can well after they make any appearance in any Avengers films. I know people get hooked on that point. But the lawyers on both side have gone over this. We wouldn't be having this discussion at all if they couldn't.
 

lazyboy97o

Well-Known Member
No, they don't - and it's been awhile since they tried. Which is another reason, given the success of the HD remaster, that I would be willing to bet money it's next up on the block for a reboot since they are mining their library for well-known IPs to get people to subscribe to the service. If they didn't, they would be stupid. It's the easiest show ever to reboot because it's just a concept of an anthology series that can be about and star anything or anyone.

The licensing deal was mentioned earlier in the thread several times.
Again, if it were so easy to reboot it should have some history of success.

The licensing deal has always been denied as a motivation from those considered reputable sources of information. It has only ever been given as a hypothetical for those seeking a more palatable motivation.
 

jpeden

Well-Known Member
@WDW1974 not trying to cause issues, but is there a reason you are so sure that @marni1971 is wrong? He's on record as saying his sources (which have been good) are saying GotG is greenlit for UoE. You're on record as saying from your sources (which are also good) that it's coming to ToT. Is there anyway that they're doing both? I just don't know how the conflicting information is so stark in contrast to one another.
 

Absimilliard

Well-Known Member
Just some thoughts since some people, including some I respect like @marni1971, are hearing conflicting information.

Went back to the two top sources on this. I asked last night what percentage chance do they give of it happening. After talking or corresponding with them, I'm saying the chances are over 70%. If you recall, when I (and I alone much like when I released the entire SDL lineup, or Georgie K taking over at WDW or, in my LP.com days, Harry Potter taking over Amity and a train connecting both UNI parks, or SDL not opening on time and the reasons why or ... well, I just like patting myself on the tushie when I don't have a fanboi minion here to do it for me!) broke the GotG news to start with I gave a 90% chance in Anaheim and a 50% chance in O-Town. See how that worked out.

Oh, and please tell my fans in the Twitverse that I never said Disney was getting a fifth gate (ever) or attractions based on the Disney Villains etc. And that Disney did indeed search for potential buyers/investors for P&R beginning in 2007 or right after Bob Iger became comfortable as the head of TWDC. The fact it didn't happen and Disney didn't put out a press release in no way changes things. Truth is truth, even if it happens in a forest with no one around to see or hear.

Also, I don't know who (maybe @WDWFigment or @RSoxNo1? was someone familiar ...) said my batting average was about .500. While that would be impressive, indeed, the reality is it's much closer to .900. And when I am wrong about something, almost -- but not -- everytime, it is because decisions change late in the game. If I had been posting on a Disney site in 1972 and was gushing about the amazing Thunder Mesa expansion coming to the MK, ask yourself would I have been wrong? It really is that simple.

I am trying to ascertain why people still are pushing the Guardians to UoE deal and without any solid info all I can do is speculate that some folks' employment might ride on whether their version of misplacing Iger and Chappie's prized IP gets selected. Believe me, I am not saying plans don't exist. I have seen them. But that means nothing. The WRE had plans ... so did the DVC resort where the Four Seasons sits. Both of those examples were much further developed than any dancing trees at EPCOT when the plug got pulled.

It also may help if you get some basic fundamental points. For instance, despite how negative reactions have been to DCA's makeover, the sales at DCA's Tower gift shop have more than tripled this fall. Again, I'll let an 'insider' take over the narrative:

"Colglazier and Chapek were both caught off guard by the blowback on the Guardians remake, but it's important to remember these are two men who have no real passion for the theme park industry, they very rarely visit Disneyland in their time off, and they have no personal experience working in a Disney theme park with paying guests. They simply have no idea what Disney theme park customers like, and they have no gut instinct to go off of when it's time to decide on something like this. This decision was based on IP investment and potential future merch sales, and not much more. WDI is happy to go along because a big E Ticket project like this allows Imagineers to stay on the payroll, pad their portfolio, and prevent themselves from being laid off just after a new theme park opens (Shanghai). Disneyland Resort attendance and spending has continued to be up over forecasts by low double digit percentages since the 60th ended in September; the truth is Anaheim's numbers continue to be wildly successful while WDW is stagnant. Those big Anaheim numbers continue to thrill Chapek and make Colglazier feel he's making the right decisions, regardless of what the fans are saying online."

How many UoE "Ellen's Final Adventure' shirts do you think they can sell? How many mugs, pins and keychains? How much work would the design studio need? You pull a ToT GotG makeover and all that work is covered.

Everything comes down to $$$ with Disney (RapidFill anyone?), like most companies. You may look at EPCOT's laughably outdated Future World attractions like they exist for satire. But all Disney sees is that EPCOT is phenomenally profitable and busy due to its food, beverage and merchandise sales. There is absolutely nothing at wrong with EPCOT if you look at it from a strictly financial viewpoint. The staleness and emptiness are all washed away by the vomit of tourists and bumpkins who have spent the day drinking around the world.

Now, look at plans for adding GotG to EPCOT at a cost that would make RSRs look cheap by comparison.

Now, look at DHS from Disney's perspective. It is a construction zone and despite any public bravado is getting hammered in the Guest satisfaction surveys and Disney is giving people freebies left and right when they complain that the park is a construction pit with nothing to do.

Now, think about how little it will cost to reskin the ToT. Look at Anaheim for the simplicity of it all. Ask yourself if you really think Disney wants to spent over $400 million to build an attraction at EPCOT or a tiny fraction of that to bring the GotG to DHS.

For everybody here who will be ******** about Tower leaving, think about all the newbies and one-and-dones who aren't expecting ToT to exist to begin with. They'll all be running to that park for the new Marvel ride. Sad and pathetic, but also the reality.

You are working in Burbank. You have no experience or passion for theme parks. You care. But you care in a certain construct. Why would you ever pick EPCOT and largely new build that would take years versus this no-brainer? You know you wouldn't. The fact these people shouldn't be in positions to make such decisions is another matter entirely.

Finally, want to be crystal clear, Disney CAN use GotG in WDW. In any park. And they can well after they make any appearance in any Avengers films. I know people get hooked on that point. But the lawyers on both side have gone over this. We wouldn't be having this discussion at all if they couldn't.
Your message should be pinned and mandatory reading for anyone coming to this forum. People simply don't understand that plans... change and I recently had an example where a park leaked something to me and even gave me the ok to post it on my blog. I checked recently on those new slides and guess what? Delayed... They went in another direction. It is one of the big reason why my amusement park blog is mostly History and not News.

On the subject of Guardians to Tower, when you broke that rumor, I checked on my side and was told that a WDI staffer claimed the whole rumor was "distant blue sky" and false. It shows that inside WDI, the divisions are so severe one hand will claim something is "not happening" while the other hand is putting the finishing touches on it.
 

AEfx

Well-Known Member