A Spirited Perfect Ten

[AEfx]

That is probably what they are thinking, but, it is the worlds worst excuse in a theme park. It's like having a merry go round that doesn't turn anymore and they don't want to replace the motor because it costs money to do so. No, I am not in the forgiving mood concerning missing and half missing attractions. There is no excuse at all.

LOL, you are making me feel all weird and "zen" and I'm really not, LOL - but I totally totally get what you are saying - it's not forgiving, it's - accepting. I can get as mad as possible here and pound my fists and cry out for "it's EPCOT CENTER!" with the best of them, but in the end - all that gets me is mad and doesn't do anything productive. I know no matter how upset I get, it ain't changin' - so I am just not interested in letting them have that power over me anymore. It makes it easier to enjoy what bits of new stuff we do get.

In the meantime, I go to Universal and spend the majority of my money there, until Disney starts offering product worth more of it.

 

[AEfx]

We will see SDL for what it is, but the average international guest will barely know or care it exists, and Iger's Folly will become little more than a curious footnote in the company history, while the Chinese get a huge trophy and kudos at having beaten an American giant while barely trying.

I think you are missing the real endgame for Disney, though. That park is a pawn, not the prize.

It's in the best interest for the Chinese government to feel its back has been scratched - because Disney wants a seat at the table now deciding the future of IP protections that will greatly affect how this 1.4B people now being dumped into the world consumer market are going to consume Disney products. If it goes one way, China could become another bootleg-based society, or they could fall lock-step in with IP protections like the major industrialized nations and secure Disney profits in virtual perpetuity.

Even if that park is a smashing success and hugely profitable, that's still but a tiny drop compared to the hundreds of billions actually at stake over the next decades.

 

[PhotoDave219]

That's a wonderful idea - if they did it, yay on them. That would be preferable. But I just can't get all angsty if it ends up going into Imagination instead, per the rumor.

Wonders of life makes more sense, give added capacity. Spreads the crowd. It's straight up addition as opposed to "plussing" or whatever the heck they call it when they try to make it look like they've added something.

 

[Mike S]

LOL, you are making me feel all weird and "zen" and I'm really not, LOL - but I totally totally get what you are saying - it's not forgiving, it's - accepting. I can get as mad as possible here and pound my fists and cry out for "it's EPCOT CENTER!" with the best of them, but in the end - all that gets me is mad and doesn't do anything productive. I know no matter how upset I get, it ain't changin' - so I am just not interested in letting them have that power over me anymore. It makes it easier to enjoy what bits of new stuff we do get.

In the meantime, I go to Universal and spend the majority of my money there, until Disney starts offering product worth more of it.

It's not like we let the anger about Disney overtake us. I just come here to vent and discuss rumors. I'm actually a pretty happy person

 

[AEfx]

Wonders of life makes more sense, give added capacity. Spreads the crowd. It's straight up addition as opposed to "plussing" or whatever the heck they call it when they try to make it look like they've added something.

You are right. Absolutely. It would be wonderful.

If they make that decision, and start going against what we've seen over and over for a couple of decades now (even back to "big" projects like M:S, where we got the pre-show instead of the attraction), I'll be the first to applaud.

 

[AEfx]

It's not like we let the anger about Disney overtake us. I just come here to vent and discuss rumors. I'm actually a pretty happy person

I'm sure most are the same - I'm just talking about it how it relates to how we are able evaluate new projects, is all.

 

[PhotoDave219]

I think you are missing the real endgame for Disney, though. That park is a pawn, not the prize.

It's in the best interest for the Chinese government to feel its back has been scratched - because Disney wants a seat at the table now deciding the future of IP protections that will greatly affect how this 1.4B people now being dumped into the world consumer market are going to consume Disney products. If it goes one way, China could become another bootleg-based society, or they could fall lock-step in with IP protections like the major industrialized nations and secure Disney profits in virtual perpetuity.

Even if that park is a smashing success and hugely profitable, that's still but a tiny drop compared to the hundreds of billions actually at stake over the next decades.

You bring up a valid point, one that I think we've all missed in the squabbles of the past two weeks.

Disney wants a seat at the table in regards to IP. That's first and foremost over everything.

That explains everything. It explains why China feels it can dictate to Disney, they're holding all the cards.

It explains the tit-for-tat with Iger. That in order to protect this company and protect this deal, Bob is going to have to eat every last bit of Guano that is served up.

 

[1023]

On China... you only have to look at how international parks are perceived internationally to see how it could pan out if Shendi did cut Disney out of the picture, and why it isnt a situation everyone's going to be desperate to avoid.

Disney isn't going to shout from the rooftops about how Iger has been played like a fiddle, they will keep quiet, and never mention Shanghai, like an illegitimate child they choose not to mention - it's not as if they promote Tokyo outside of Japan particularly often as it is, so not much change there. So there's little danger to the Chinese of Disney scaring off other companies - to save face, the mouse will be spinning the upsides of the deal for many years to come, no matter how bad a deal they end up having made.

We will see SDL for what it is, but the average international guest will barely know or care it exists, and Iger's Folly will become little more than a curious footnote in the company history, while the Chinese get a huge trophy and kudos at having beaten an American giant while barely trying.

I think you and others here know that I don't mind "throwing shade" on Uncle Bob. With that being said I am going to present an informed opinion.

The park on the Mainland is going to be just fine. It may have some struggles but I do not foresee failure or the complete abandonment of the project by TWDC. The issue has been the relationship that Disney executives have with their Chinese partners and key government officials. Those relationships need to be reconciled. There have been some steps taken in that direction. There will be more.

The park will open big. There will a few months of solid attendance then a fall to what will be the mean. Recovering 5.8 Billion will take sometime, but the overall investment will be lucrative for many years. The exclusivity of some attractions will be an incentive to visit for Mouse fans around the world.

That being said, the "entry" was not handled well and there are stories looming on the horizon that have not been widely reported. They have more to do with the parks construction but those will slowly find there way into the light.

Personally, I will try to visit this new "jewel' in the P&R crown during it's first year of operation. I plan on visiting all of the Asian parks in a 2 week trip that will allow me to compare them to each other. Having visited Tokyo already, it will be nice to get back there. Don't fret, I'll take loads of pictures in a compare and contrast trip report.....

*1023*

I'm putting on my flame retardant suit now and clicking post.

 

[Goofyernmost]

LOL, you are making me feel all weird and "zen" and I'm really not, LOL - but I totally totally get what you are saying - it's not forgiving, it's - accepting. I can get as mad as possible here and pound my fists and cry out for "it's EPCOT CENTER!" with the best of them, but in the end - all that gets me is mad and doesn't do anything productive. I know no matter how upset I get, it ain't changin' - so I am just not interested in letting them have that power over me anymore. It makes it easier to enjoy what bits of new stuff we do get.

In the meantime, I go to Universal and spend the majority of my money there, until Disney starts offering product worth more of it.

That's why I go with forgiving. It creates less stress on me then anger.

 

[1023]

You bring up a valid point, one that I think we've all missed in the squabbles of the past two weeks.

Disney wants a seat at the table in regards to IP. That's first and foremost over everything.

That explains everything. It explains why China feels it can dictate to Disney, they're holding all the cards.

It explains the tit-for-tat with Iger. That in order to protect this company and protect this deal, Bob is going to have to eat every last bit of Guano that is served up.

hehe...guano....

BTW, bat guano is an excellent fertilizer for organic hydroponics...

*1023*

 

[PhotoDave219]

I think you and others here know that I don't mind "throwing shade" on Uncle Bob. With that being said I am going to present an informed opinion.

The park on the Mainland is going to be just fine. It may have some struggles but I do not foresee failure or the complete abandonment of the project by TWDC. The issue has been the relationship that Disney executives have with their Chinese partners and key government officials. Those relationships need to be reconciled. There have been some steps taken in that direction. There will be more.

The park will open big. There will a few months of solid attendance then a fall to what will be the mean. Recovering 5.8 Billion will take sometime, but the overall investment will be lucrative for many years. The exclusivity of some attractions will be an incentive to visit for Mouse fans around the world.

That being said, the "entry" was not handled well and there are stories looming on the horizon that have not been widely reported. There have more to do with the parks construction but those will slowly find there way into the light.

Personally, I will try to visit this new "jewel' in the P&R crown during it's first year of operation. I plan on visiting all of the Asian parks in a 2 week trip that will allow me to compare them to each other. Having visited Tokyo already, it will be nice to get back there. Don't fret, I'll take loads of pictures in a compare and contrast trip report.....

*1023*

I'm putting on my flame retardant suit now and clicking post.

I have a secondhand tale, a good friend telling me that their friend just got back from Shanghai after asking off the project. The only elaboration that was relayed is that is was a real "mickey mouse operation" and that Chinese Construction standards are a bit different than here in the US.

 

[CDavid]

LOL, you are making me feel all weird and "zen" and I'm really not, LOL - but I totally totally get what you are saying - it's not forgiving, it's - accepting. I can get as mad as possible here and pound my fists and cry out for "it's EPCOT CENTER!" with the best of them, but in the end - all that gets me is mad and doesn't do anything productive. I know no matter how upset I get, it ain't changin' - so I am just not interested in letting them have that power over me anymore. It makes it easier to enjoy what bits of new stuff we do get.

In the meantime, I go to Universal and spend the majority of my money there, until Disney starts offering product worth more of it.

While I do not fundamentally disagree with your basic point, I do have a problem with "accepting". A BIG problem. Never Going to Happen.

Certainly none of us should get all worked up over actions which are, indeed, virtually impossible to change and we should take advantage of what we're given - work with and enjoy the park we have rather than the one which could - and should - have been. I fully agree with that. But at the same time, acceptance is part of what got us into this mess. I've said it before, but people are much too irresolute and ambivalent - and not just regarding Disney. If more people would just take a stand things could be very different. Instead, too many Walt Disney World visitors just accept declining quality, stagnant parks, and prices raised through the stratosphere. We're all paying far more for an increasingly substandard experience, and I would have hoped more people would have a problem with that aspect alone (never mind all the other issues).

Before anyone says anything, refusing to accept Disney's declining standards and experience doesn't mean we must stop going or spending money. But it does mean we express our dissatisfaction and continue to advocate for a return to Disney's own traditional and established standards.

 

[SirNim]

If there was no movie and they decided to create an Epcot attraction based on the brain and emotions, Inside Out is how they would do it.

Inside Out is how they already did it.

(And with SNL alums to boot!)

 

[Mike S]

While I do not fundamentally disagree with your basic point, I do have a problem with "accepting". A BIG problem. Never Going to Happen.

Certainly none of us should get all worked up over actions which are, indeed, virtually impossible to change and we should take advantage of what we're given - work with and enjoy the park we have rather than the one which could - and should - have been. I fully agree with that. But at the same time, acceptance is part of what got us into this mess. I've said it before, but people are much too irresolute and ambivalent - and not just regarding Disney. If more people would just take a stand things could be very different. Instead, too many Walt Disney World visitors just accept declining quality, stagnant parks, and prices raised through the stratosphere. We're all paying far more for an increasingly substandard experience, and I would have hoped more people would have a problem with that aspect alone (never mind all the other issues).

Before anyone says anything, refusing to accept Disney's declining standards and experience doesn't mean we must stop going or spending money. But it does mean we express our dissatisfaction and continue to advocate for a return to Disney's own traditional and established standards.

Exactly.

Even if some us decide to go to other Disney resorts instead of WDW for some trips.

 

[AEfx]

You bring up a valid point, one that I think we've all missed in the squabbles of the past two weeks.

Disney wants a seat at the table in regards to IP. That's first and foremost over everything.

That explains everything. It explains why China feels it can dictate to Disney, they're holding all the cards.

It explains the tit-for-tat with Iger. That in order to protect this company and protect this deal, Bob is going to have to eat every last bit of Guano that is served up.

Exactly, that's what some of have been saying since the second China was mentioned.

It's been absolutely clear that's what is really going on, no matter if you subscribe to the "Iger as Benny Hill" version, or the "Iger as Darth Vader" version - or, what is most likely closest to the truth - the "some where in-between" version.

Hearing about the possible construction woes is very interesting, though - too bad Foxconn doesn't do rides, LOL.

 

[AEfx]

Instead, too many Walt Disney World visitors just accept declining quality, stagnant parks, and prices raised through the stratosphere. We're all paying far more for an increasingly substandard experience, and I would have hoped more people would have a problem with that aspect alone (never mind all the other issues).

Not all of us, though. I'm not paying more - I'm going far, far less, is all. I live over 1,000 miles away and I used to go down at least once every 2-3 months. Now, I'm lucky if I average once a year - and if I keep going on the trajectory I'm on, that average is going to be closer to every two years.

I guess what I'm saying is - I've moved away from my attachment to their product. I still enjoy their product on occasion, but I no longer look to them to be satisfying my ongoing need for impressive theme park ride experiences. They are a fun place to revisit the past, I don't look to them for the future much, anymore.

All that said - I'm really really hoping they change my mind with Star Wars. They have the opportunity of the century right now to build something significant that will again ignite the attention of the world, not just like most other things which might get an isolated article here or there, but the majority of talk about them is centered around only people who already sit around and talk about Disney.

They could have that park bustling like it was Star Wars Weekends 52 weeks a year (and sell that much equivalent merchandise). But it's gonna cost them - they need to do it big and they need to do it more quickly than they have built anything in a very long time.

I've just lost my expectations, not my hope. And I've put my money where my mouth is - which is praising Universal for building such cool stuff so often.

 

[lazyboy97o]

Hearing about the possible construction woes is very interesting, though - too bad Foxconn doesn't do rides, LOL.

Constructions woes are not surprising at all. Even here contractors have a poor reputation. Building a Better Mouse has tidbits about the issues that went on with getting EPCOT Center built. Backup teams of contractors were on standby to get Euro Disney built because it was expected that there would be attempts at work slowdowns and stoppages (I believe the Fantasyland team tried that for which they were systematically let go and replaced in a day. The other teams thereafter knew Disney was serious about sticking to their established agreements). In China though the last phases of the design process and the building process are overseen by a state-run enterprise of the typical sort, not the client's chosen architects, engineers, etc. as is normal elsewhere.

 

[matt9112]

No, but that means they shouldn't build out the other three parks. Yes, MK is the flagship but they can easily grow the overall audience. Epcot has languished between 9-11 Million guests per year for close to 20 years (!!?!) now. Studios have ebbed and flowed from 8-10 Million over those same 20 years. Same with DAK in its entire existance.

That is not growth. That is something else to do during a 5 day vacation to Disney World & the Magic Kingdom.

So true....universal doesn't need to compete with the magic kingdom....they just need to compete with the rest. To bring down a castle start with the weakest tower.

 

[PhotoDave219]

So true....universal doesn't need to compete with the magic kingdom....they just need to compete with the rest. To bring down a castle start with the weakest tower.

And?

 

[Phil12]

Look at all those lines. WOW.

Indeed, back then they didn't have FP+ and they had less attendance.