A Spirited Perfect Ten

[Omnispace]

Indeed, back then they didn't have FP+ and they had less attendance.

More likely thay had fewer attractions, and multiple breakdowns since everything was cutting edge technology.

 

[Phil12]

More likely thay had fewer attractions, and multiple breakdowns since everything was cutting edge technology.

Nah, back in 1989 they had Horizons and WoM. Everything was bigger and better and darn it, people were happier!

 

[PhotoDave219]

So true....universal doesn't need to compete with the magic kingdom....they just need to compete with the rest. To bring down a castle start with the weakest tower.

Excuse me, but don't use my research to advance your own agenda.

I'm trying to prove a point that Disney's lack of investment in the secondary parks is resulting in little growth over the long term and you're trying to twist my words to advance your own agenda.

Poor form.

 

[NearTheEars]

I'm about 150 pages behind on this thread so I know Tomorrowland is old news, apologies, but I had to post my thoughts as they tie in to one or two common topics here.

I loved the movie. It needs a polish, and a reworked third act, for sure, but I've seen so much worse, and it definitely should be rating higher than 50%. I'll get the Blu-Ray on the first day.

The superficial fanboy touches were lovely - the opening Space Mountain logo was wonderful, the World's Fair sequence made me feel like a kid again - that sense of wonder at the World's Fair was me at EPCOT in the early 90s - and the spirit of EPCOT was strong enough to make me sad that there are clearly people at Disney who 'get it', and yet seem so afraid to speak up when the reality is so far removed from the fantasy and ideals the movie emboldens. In many ways it carries the message of the Doom and Gloomers but in a way that the Pixie Dusters don't seem to notice.

Spoiler

When they refer to Tomorrowland visions as being advertisements filled with magic and dreams but reality being a crumbling shell of that vision... well, yeah that's WDW all over.

I've just returned from a (nowadays rare) visit to WDW (more later) but what was most striking was there were *no* Tomorrowland pins on sale anywhere. Nothing. Sure, the movie didn't do well, and I was visiting a couple of weeks after release, but I can't see anyone who liked it even a little not wanting one of those babies so was expecting them everywhere. Did Disney really have so little faith in the movie that they didn't even try to make any merchandise? If after being burned by lack of Frozen preparation they still didn't produce anything, they must really have decided this was one to bury quickly well in advance.

Loved the movie too, but wish they would have actually shown more of Tomorrowland itself.
I was hoping to pick up a pin too on our next drive over. What a bummer!

 

[Omnispace]

Nah, back in 1989 they had Horizons and WoM. Everything was bigger and better and darn it, people were happier!

Can you blame them?

 

[pax_65]

Boy, if I ran a company where someone had just visited then said they wouldn't be back, and had gone to the trouble of clicking a link to reply to a survey, I'd be dying to know what their reasons were, not shutting them off without any interest in what they had to say. What a waste of an opportunity. I really don't understand the mindset of TWDC sometimes.

When I got home from my last trip I e-mailed guest relations and to their credit, they scheduled a time to speak with my wife and I. We talked to them for about half an hour, going item by item over all our issues (with special attention to how much MM+ sucks). They really listened and promised they'd get things fixed.

I told them we were going to give them plenty of time to work on it before we'd be back. But I do give them credit for listening.

 

[tenchikiss]

Loved the movie too, but wish they would have actually shown more of Tomorrowland itself.
I was hoping to pick up a pin too on our next drive over. What a bummer!

Maybe the outlet stores will have the pins? They seem to get stuff quicker and quicker these days.

 

[AEfx]

Excuse me, but don't use my research to advance your own agenda.

I'm trying to prove a point that Disney's lack of investment in the secondary parks is resulting in little growth over the long term and you're trying to twist my words to advance your own agenda.

I guess I wasn't following closely enough because are those mutually exclusive ideas, really?

Yes, the MK is teflon-coated, I think we all accept that. It sucks out loud, but we accept it. And, say what you will about how bloated the costs for NFL were, and the fiasco that is BoG, but...it's a better Fantasyland now than we had, at least - I mean, ours was embarrassing before.

NFL was some decent place making, and don't forget what Darth Iger did - at least we got 7DMT instead of Pixie Freakin' Hollow - though overall yes I think the whole venture took a ridiculously long time. Plus when you have the HM in great shape, Pirates doing OK, etc. - things could be worse in the MK. They could be so much better...but again, I see why it has few worries at the moment. And the point is, no, no Universal Park is ever going to be MK.

But that's the crazy part, you would think that they would see that as an opportunity to beef up those other parks, like you said - to draw even more. I think if we had the bean counters brains to pick, I'd assume that their "projections don't state that building commensurately in the other parks will increase overall spending or time spent at the resort". That's what I bet the key is right there: they believe they have maxxed out on how long people are going to make WDW vacations for, are content with the MK as the "Weenie" of the whole resort, and we are back to the original "saturated market" nonsense.

But Universal had other plans. They were only a 2-day "resort" trip really anyway, but now they can be 3...and can extend to 4. They are pretty close to being a destination where you can spend as much time as you can on a Disney vacation, when you include the fact that most people who stay at Universal are mobile, and can also do Sea World, or one of the other zillions of things to do in Orlando.

If you notice, Orlando area attractions atrophied for a long while in the 90's and 00's when Disney became "destination" and not even just "home base" anymore, but now that Universal has folks out and about again - there is some neat stuff out there and more on the horizon. This is what Disney is screwing up right now. They insulated themselves right out of the Orlando market with all the "you must stay on site a week or you are a loser" mentality, and the captive audience factor. Disney is the premium way to do Orlando still, but it's not the only way anymore - and for awhile there, it was getting pretty close to that.

So while all this brought a decade or so of really record profits because folks did the "destination" thing (i.e. the Disney Moms era) since Disney made it so easy and cost-effective to do (a 4 day vacation vs. 7 day vacation, priced out at WDW website is close enough that you feel stupid spending all that money and not going for 7). The piper is getting paid right now, because the very things that built that walled garden are now keeping them out of the "other things to do in Orlando" market which because of Universal, is increasingly a viable option. Before, I would have smacked someone who said they spent a week in Orlando and didn't do Disney - now, I talk to more people who don't than do.


TL;DR - Your data supports your theory, of course, but it also is the sword that Disney is falling on by letting Universal out WOW them so consistently that folks want to spend more and more time there.

 

[PhotoDave219]

I guess I wasn't following closely enough because are those mutually exclusive ideas, really?

Yes, the MK is teflon-coated, I think we all accept that. It sucks out loud, but we accept it. And, say what you will about how bloated the costs for NFL were, and the fiasco that is BoG, but...it's a better Fantasyland now than we had, at least - I mean, ours was embarrassing before.

NFL was some decent place making, and don't forget what Darth Iger did - at least we got 7DMT instead of Pixie Freakin' Hollow - though overall yes I think the whole venture took a ridiculously long time. Plus when you have the HM in great shape, Pirates doing OK, etc. - things could be worse in the MK. They could be so much better...but again, I see why it has few worries at the moment. And the point is, no, no Universal Park is ever going to be MK.

But that's the crazy part, you would think that they would see that as an opportunity to beef up those other parks, like you said - to draw even more. I think if we had the bean counters brains to pick, I'd assume that their "projections don't state that building commensurately in the other parks will increase overall spending or time spent at the resort". That's what I bet the key is right there: they believe they have maxxed out on how long people are going to make WDW vacations for, are content with the MK as the "Weenie" of the whole resort, and we are back to the original "saturated market" nonsense.

But Universal had other plans. They were only a 2-day "resort" trip really anyway, but now they can be 3...and can extend to 4. They are pretty close to being a destination where you can spend as much time as you can on a Disney vacation, when you include the fact that most people who stay at Universal are mobile, and can also do Sea World, or one of the other zillions of things to do in Orlando.

If you notice, Orlando area attractions atrophied for a long while in the 90's and 00's when Disney became "destination" and not even just "home base" anymore, but now that Universal has folks out and about again - there is some neat stuff out there and more on the horizon. This is what Disney is screwing up right now. They insulated themselves right out of the Orlando market with all the "you must stay on site a week or you are a loser" mentality, and the captive audience factor. Disney is the premium way to do Orlando still, but it's not the only way anymore - and for awhile there, it was getting pretty close to that.

So while all this brought a decade or so of really record profits because folks did the "destination" thing (i.e. the Disney Moms era) since Disney made it so easy and cost-effective to do (a 4 day vacation vs. 7 day vacation, priced out at WDW website is close enough that you feel stupid spending all that money and not going for 7). The piper is getting paid right now, because the very things that built that walled garden are now keeping them out of the "other things to do in Orlando" market which because of Universal, is increasingly a viable option. Before, I would have smacked someone who said they spent a week in Orlando and didn't do Disney - now, I talk to more people who don't than do.


TL;DR - Your data supports your theory, of course, but it also is the sword that Disney is falling on by letting Universal out WOW them so consistently that folks want to spend more and more time there.

My point is that its poor form to use someone's research about one thing (Epcot, DHS, DAK arent growing much over 15-20 years) and try and apply it to something entirely different (Universal).

One thing has nothing to do with one another. Just another Universal fanboi trying to strut like a peacock and restart an argument.

 

[brb1006]

Here's a thread about plans for the Magic Kingdom's 50th Anniversary in 2021.
http://forums.wdwmagic.com/threads/magic-kingdom-50th-anniversary-plans.900622/#post-6745617

 

[AEfx]

Boy, if I ran a company where someone had just visited then said they wouldn't be back, and had gone to the trouble of clicking a link to reply to a survey, I'd be dying to know what their reasons were, not shutting them off without any interest in what they had to say. What a waste of an opportunity. I really don't understand the mindset of TWDC sometimes.

LOL. Too funny.

Unless it was the employee's fault (rude, etc.), I normally don't do the receipt surveys unless it's positive because I know too many people in retail/restaurants who's entire jobs depend on those scores. What product that gets shipped to stores, employee raises, even their having a job at all, etc. - it's crappy, really really crappy. It's the only metric corporate can rate individual employees on in many cases, and it just sucks for all the workers since most people who do them just complain - even if your complaint is about the prices or selection, if you give a negative score, it goes on whatever employee's record that checked you out/took care of you. It's insidious.

Anyway, I did have two similar surveys get emailed to me (one which was quite insistent) when I had a negative experience and I was like...okay, if you guys really want to know...LOL. And neither of them kicked me out of the survey right after, either!

That's a good note to make though - if you DO any type of survey on a receipt, etc. - do two things - one, when you have a good experience, do one once in awhile (it's a nice thing to do karma wise in the world), and two, when you have a bad one you do - in whatever comments section, if the employee wasn't part of your bad experience - SAY IT, several times...that makes a world of difference and we get better service after because they really do get those down at the store level and a compliment once in awhile keeps employees from being so freaked out all the time.

Someone needs to make up for those idiots that go home and put "1,1,1,1,1,1" on every question when he calls because he was mad that they didn't have the same dish he ordered last time still on the menu, and that he thinks your restaurant is over-priced anyway.

 

[ItlngrlBella]

The thought of giving more space (or even really any space since there isn't some) to the "Disney Villains" has been a serious conversation for the last decade (or more). There has been massive success with "Halloween Events" featuring the villains. There were several concepts (BlueSky) that focused on villains. There was even a Heros/villians concept.

My hope is that the acquisition of "the Dark Side" will put the fire back into exploiting the other side of Disney's storys. Disney can still have the Villain's plan foiled at the end of the attraction if that is the foible with the idea. I can imagine a series of attractions focused on the telling of each villains story. Heck, they made a TV show out of the compelling nature of evil.

*1023*

Said it before and I'll say it again...
Villains are more fun.

 

[bhg469]

Said it before and I'll say it again...
Villains are more fun.

My mega dream is a villains magic kingdom or even just a villains fantasy land, with very similar rides, only featuring the baddies

 

[1023]

My mega dream is a villains magic kingdom or even just a villains fantasy land, with very similar rides, only featuring the baddies

Again... A boutique park themed around Heroes vs. Villains is what is required for proper development of the thought. If you don't think this has floated around.......

*1023*

BTW: I thought the acquisition of Star Wars and Marvel would be a natural sequitur for this.

 

[brb1006]

Since WDW's is getting a new Villain show for next Halloween. I wish Disney in the future might do meet and greets with past Disney antagonist such as the Ringmaster from Dumbo and Edgar The Butler from The Aristocats their own meet and greet someday. I can already picture Edgar being a face character and might bring back to Ringmaster someday. Especially with the addition of the New Fantasyland expansion with a Circus section. I'm already picturing Edgar having an interesting and funny meet and greet interactions when ever you bring up the cats (Marie,Toulouse,and Berlioz) where he attempted to take them away from home and later tries to burn them alive in the oven. Also for those who seen The Aristocats, what's the name of the female owner who keeps Marie,Toulouse,Berlioz, and Duchess?

 

[hopemax]

I've just returned from a (nowadays rare) visit to WDW (more later) but what was most striking was there were *no* Tomorrowland pins on sale anywhere. Nothing. Sure, the movie didn't do well, and I was visiting a couple of weeks after release, but I can't see anyone who liked it even a little not wanting one of those babies so was expecting them everywhere. Did Disney really have so little faith in the movie that they didn't even try to make any merchandise? If after being burned by lack of Frozen preparation they still didn't produce anything, they must really have decided this was one to bury quickly well in advance.

They actually did make a regular pin for the parks, but it sells out quickly when it is restocked. There's about a dozen pins out for the movie, but only that one was sold in the parks. A pair of Funko pins sold at Hot Topic, the Soda Fountain in Hollywood has released several, and there is a promotional pin released through several different sources. The pin will be the same, but it comes on a different cad for each place. So far it's been New York Comic Con, a Car Show (this is also the Chevrolet pin they were handing out at Test Track), the Annual Passholder extended trailer previews, Regal Cinemas, Disney Movie Rewards, and some international pins from Thailand and Japan. But here's what the park pin looks like

 

[ItlngrlBella]

Again... A boutique park themed around Heroes vs. Villains is what is required for proper development of the thought. If you don't think this has floated around.......

*1023*

BTW: I thought the acquisition of Star Wars and Marvel would be a natural sequitur for this.

There should be a bar at DTD/DS hat is based off of villains but with Edison and other higher end establishments going in I'm sure that would never happen.


For M&G's:

I think Gaston would be fun with LaFou

Cruella is my fave - hilarious and needs to get more stage time.

Sanderson Sisters M&G would be awesome, along with Madame Medusa and Prince Hanz.

 

[71jason]

Sorry to derail your numerous derailings but ...

Finally had a chance to see Dr. Blondie/Cupcake up close and in person today. As long as she wears that same skin-tight dress she had on at 7 am on a Saturday, she's welcome to use her social media PhD to Twitter all over my Facebook any time she wants.

 

[Mike S]

I guess I wasn't following closely enough because are those mutually exclusive ideas, really?

Yes, the MK is teflon-coated, I think we all accept that. It sucks out loud, but we accept it. And, say what you will about how bloated the costs for NFL were, and the fiasco that is BoG, but...it's a better Fantasyland now than we had, at least - I mean, ours was embarrassing before.

NFL was some decent place making, and don't forget what Darth Iger did - at least we got 7DMT instead of Pixie Freakin' Hollow - though overall yes I think the whole venture took a ridiculously long time. Plus when you have the HM in great shape, Pirates doing OK, etc. - things could be worse in the MK. They could be so much better...but again, I see why it has few worries at the moment. And the point is, no, no Universal Park is ever going to be MK.

But that's the crazy part, you would think that they would see that as an opportunity to beef up those other parks, like you said - to draw even more. I think if we had the bean counters brains to pick, I'd assume that their "projections don't state that building commensurately in the other parks will increase overall spending or time spent at the resort". That's what I bet the key is right there: they believe they have maxxed out on how long people are going to make WDW vacations for, are content with the MK as the "Weenie" of the whole resort, and we are back to the original "saturated market" nonsense.

But Universal had other plans. They were only a 2-day "resort" trip really anyway, but now they can be 3...and can extend to 4. They are pretty close to being a destination where you can spend as much time as you can on a Disney vacation, when you include the fact that most people who stay at Universal are mobile, and can also do Sea World, or one of the other zillions of things to do in Orlando.

If you notice, Orlando area attractions atrophied for a long while in the 90's and 00's when Disney became "destination" and not even just "home base" anymore, but now that Universal has folks out and about again - there is some neat stuff out there and more on the horizon. This is what Disney is screwing up right now. They insulated themselves right out of the Orlando market with all the "you must stay on site a week or you are a loser" mentality, and the captive audience factor. Disney is the premium way to do Orlando still, but it's not the only way anymore - and for awhile there, it was getting pretty close to that.

So while all this brought a decade or so of really record profits because folks did the "destination" thing (i.e. the Disney Moms era) since Disney made it so easy and cost-effective to do (a 4 day vacation vs. 7 day vacation, priced out at WDW website is close enough that you feel stupid spending all that money and not going for 7). The piper is getting paid right now, because the very things that built that walled garden are now keeping them out of the "other things to do in Orlando" market which because of Universal, is increasingly a viable option. Before, I would have smacked someone who said they spent a week in Orlando and didn't do Disney - now, I talk to more people who don't than do.


TL;DR - Your data supports your theory, of course, but it also is the sword that Disney is falling on by letting Universal out WOW them so consistently that folks want to spend more and more time there.

Great post. To the bolded, even if it didn't increase the time spent in one trip, consistently building new attractions might actually turn someone into a repeat customer. That one trip becomes two and possibly more.

Here's a thread about plans for the Magic Kingdom's 50th Anniversary in 2021.
http://forums.wdwmagic.com/threads/magic-kingdom-50th-anniversary-plans.900622/#post-6745617

Like I said in that thread, I'll remain skeptical until it's proven. Would be amazing if true though.

 

[PhotoDave219]

Sorry to derail your numerous derailings but ...

Finally had a chance to see Dr. Blondie/Cupcake up close and in person today. As long as she wears that same skin-tight dress she had on at 7 am on a Saturday, she's welcome to use her social media PhD to Twitter all over my Facebook any time she wants.

Sounds like quite the PROfessional.