A Spirited Perfect Ten

[Mike S]

Music to my ears. You know as cool as this is at disney

I feel that this

IS something me and other guests would wait a dangerously stupid amount of time for.

It could always be an interactive part of an elaborate queue. Being able to pull the Master Sword really would be amazing. They would have to have the lighting effects and fanfare that go with it too to complete the experience.

 

[Sped2424]

It could always be an interactive part of an elaborate queue. Being able to pull the Master Sword really would be amazing. They would have to have the lighting effects and fanfare that go with it too to complete the experience.

Is it sad that I would cry if I got to do that. Call me a fan boy but nintendo was such a huge part of my childhood. Especially the zelda series. I own every installment after Ocarina.

 

[Voice of Disney sanity]

Already happening at least in our family, Plan to spend 10 days in O-town, only 4-5 of which will be spent at WDW, DVC yes but much of this trip will be offsite. Even 3 years ago that would have been 1-2 days offsite but WDW is stale so we'll just hit the favorites and go elsewhere for the rest of the trip.

Us too that is exactly what we do now with our DVC trips

 

[ford91exploder]

I have been saying the following since about 2004 online. It bears repeating because it showcases a fundamental shift in how TWDC runs WDW and how it has changed and how it's competition does.

WDW is now a hotel, timeshare and real estate business with theme parks as ancillary. That's it. All of that Dreams, Wishes and MAGIC crap? All that memories and nostalgia? All those MAGIC moments with family and loved ones?

It's all designed to sell, sell, sell ... hotels, timeshares and real estate.

That's why the parks get the absolute smallest amount of physical investment (no, NGE crap here, save it for young writers used as tools by Disney) possible. And that is all on Bob Iger and Co.

Not arguing with your premise, But why do the HOTELS then get the same miserly level of investment and poor maintenance if they are the focus of the business?.

 

[marni1971]

Plus they did just get their biggest upgrade even if we don't like it here in park history.

Nope. Tomorrowland 1973-5 was the biggest park expansion. A whole new guest area, a new quick serve plus 4 new attractions (5 including IYHW which was concurrent but not part of the expansion) one of which was an E ticket and 2 D tickets (the other 2 were complimentary)

 

[culturenthrills]

I forget whom i was talking to on here but they were suggestion that Glendale is expecting a 20% bump in attendance for Epcot with Frozen.... I'm not sure what reality they're living in. You'd have to Boost more than 2M people over a year to do that. (2.25M to be precise using last years estimated numbers or an additional 6167 people per day. 13.48M for the year is a 20% increase, or 36,931/day)

Yeah and that 20% will be staring at a ride the can't ride unless the booked a FP+ 12:01 am the day they are available or wait in a 3 hour line. Gonna be so many magically happy days.

 

[Nemo14]

I usually agree with you. Not this time. Folks who spend two (or more) days at UNI (or even exploring the new I-Drive Live complex) ARE going to take days away from Disney. Just a day hurts. Two days really hurts. When people start taking (and they already do) Central FL vacations and not WDW ones, The Mouse will be in trouble.

My gut says the ignorance and arrogance of the folks at Disney will allow this to happen largely before they wake up to it ... they had 88% room capacity this past quarter, right? (of course, many units at high end Poly and BC were not in service and many at moderate CBR were also taken out) That's the number I think they focus on. They don't seem to get that just like DVCers, who in ever increasing numbers, opt to stay at WDW, but limit their time in Disney parks or dining at Disney locations, there's nothing stopping people from staying at AoA or PO or BW for a week and only going to WDW parks 2-3 days. I'm not sure we aren't close to the day that happens.

Just my observations about this:
Some of you know that as retirees, my husband and I spend a lot of time in central FL now in the winter, renting a condo big enough for family and friends to visit. In the past 3 years that we have been doing this, we've spent exactly one day in a Disney park (AK) only because we had guests who wanted to see it. We have several days left on our non-expiration park hoppers, so $$ is not the issue for us (but it certainly would be if we didn't have those). We do have AP's for SW and have enjoyed our visits there, as have our guests, thanks to the discounted ticket options available to us as AP holders.
The more telling thing we've seen at the condo though is when discussing WDW with fellow snow birds at the complex, the vast majority of them do not bring their visiting children and grandchildren to WDW either, even though it's a mere 10 - 15 minute drive from there. The first thing they mention is the cost, followed closely by the "been there, done that, moving on" attitude, or the "too many other things to do" comments.
I know this does not qualify as a scientific study, but I think it's probably a decent reflection of what many off-site guests feel though. They've escaped the "bubble" and don't miss it at all!

 

[GoofGoof]

I have been saying the following since about 2004 online. It bears repeating because it showcases a fundamental shift in how TWDC runs WDW and how it has changed and how it's competition does.

WDW is now a hotel, timeshare and real estate business with theme parks as ancillary. That's it. All of that Dreams, Wishes and MAGIC crap? All that memories and nostalgia? All those MAGIC moments with family and loved ones?

It's all designed to sell, sell, sell ... hotels, timeshares and real estate.

That's why the parks get the absolute smallest amount of physical investment (no, NGE crap here, save it for young writers used as tools by Disney) possible. And that is all on Bob Iger and Co.

Sad, but true. It's also why they may not be as concerned with people spending a day or 2 at Universal parks. As long as they fill those overpriced rooms. Actually, based on attendance numbers I think a significant number of those extra days going to Uni may be coming from SW not WDW. Decades before Universal even opened in Florida some people were diverting a day from WDW to visit SW.

The biggest threat Universal can pose to WDW is to follow through on the 15,000+ hotel rooms and the 3rd gate. If they can start drawing a meaningful number of guests off Disney property that will be very damaging to the real estate model. It's ironic that on one side is a company that is blessed with available real estate and next to no desire to use it and on the other side is a company with a burning desire to grow and limited space to operate in.

 

[flynnibus]

An E ticket by definition is just a popular or new ride in a park.... So by that standard Peter Pan, Pirates, are all still E tickets. And pan is as short as they come.

Absolutely dead wrong and impossible to salvage.

If you really want a one sentence definition... Start with 'one with the largest scale and ambition'. That can play out in technology (like mission space) or it can play out in immersed setting (like btmrr) or it can play out in scale/scope... (Like iasw) or in new innovative combinations (soarin, american adventure, etc)

Classically AAs were disney's pinnacle and most demanding elements so their presence or scope was often associated with how ambitious an attraction was. Sheer size as well. The consequence of all this is e-tickets will tend to be the biggest budget ones as well.

Mine cart has innovation, but it doesn't have it in spades nor was the ride itself really that grand in scope. Great decor and location does not graduate it to the top tier. Newness, popularity, etc don no count anymore now that the term no longer directly ties to disney's pricing model.

Peter pan is one of the most popular attractions in the parks period... But is not and never has been An e ticket... Even when they used ticket books

 

[gmajew]

Already covered that.

Do you think that GMR is a D-ticket?

I have a feeling these kids would say that Horizons wasn't an E-ticket.

I don't remember horizons well enough to comment.

Nope. Tomorrowland 1973-5 was the biggest park expansion. A whole new guest area, a new quick serve plus 4 new attractions (5 including IYHW which was concurrent but not part of the expansion) one of which was an E ticket and 2 D tickets (the other 2 were complimentary)

Thanks I also thought it was part of the original plan but not completed in time for opening.

So it was the second largest upgrade. Still a lot of work and no not many rides but lot of land mass.

 

[marni1971]

Thanks I also thought it was part of the original plan but not completed in time for opening.

So it was the second largest upgrade. Still a lot of work and no not many rides but lot of land mass.

You're welcome. Whilst If You Had Wings is another topic, it wasn't originally planned nor was the rest of the land. Something was planned of course, including a Peoplemover and an indoor Rollercoaster, but plans were still very fluid in 1971 and nowhere near finalised. Indeed, for the first 18 months there was nothing being build south and East in Tomorrowland. Less not completed, more not started.

NFL... Yes, a lot of land mass. Very pretty. But no substance. For the price tag it's regarded inside as not as brilliant as was hoped for. Especially for the price tag. Not to mention the park overall received a net gain of zero attractions and attendence didn't bump for what was paid.

 

[Goofyernmost]

Because good fiction isn't just doing whatever.

OK, but who gets to define authenticity, the observer or the artist?

 

[FigmentJedi]

pretty sure some of these are fanmade and not officials.

They're official all right



Nintendo-system exclusive content with Nintendo characters has been a thing for years too. LIke LInk in the Gamecube Soul Calibur and even the rejected pitch of Link and Samus in Marvel Ultimate Alliance because someone made the faux pas of presenting it to Nintendo on the Sony version of the software.

 

[George]

Sadly, "Disney [does not] Need to Be Afraid of King Kong."

As the article's author readily acknowledges:

Just a few miles away from Universal Orlando, Disney isn't exactly setting the world on fire the way that Universal has with Harry Potter additions to both of its Universal Orlando theme parks. Disney's attendance is at record levels, but a good chunk of that is the handiwork of Universal's booming popularity drawing more visitors to the area.​

For many Orlando vacationers, Universal now has successfully hijacked 2 days from Disney. It's an awesome accomplishment for Universal. Still, until Universal becomes a 3 or 4-day resort, new Universal attractions mean vacationers will simply skip Universal's less popular attractions rather than steal more business from WDW.

Hey, with a paragraph like this discussing revenue gains, the writer is after my heart:

Universal Orlando's attendance isn't quite at Disney World's level, but it's closing the gap. Universal parent Comcast reported a 34 percent year-over-year surge in revenue for its theme parks in its latest quarter. That compares to a more modest 6 percent uptick for Disney's theme parks. These metrics include the performance of Comcast and Disney theme parks outside of Florida, but third-party reports find Universal Orlando's overall growth climbing a lot faster than Disney World's in recent years.​

However, it's wishful thinking to write "Sooner or later, Disney is going to have to address the 800-ton gorilla in the room."

The unfortunate reality for those of us who want to see real improvements at WDW is that even if Kong draws more vacationers to Orlando, they are still going to spend 2 days at Universal and the rest of their vacations at WDW, giving Disney little reason to rush anything at WDW.

I wish it were not the case but, sadly, I fear it is.

I usually agree with you. Not this time. Folks who spend two (or more) days at UNI (or even exploring the new I-Drive Live complex) ARE going to take days away from Disney. Just a day hurts. Two days really hurts. When people start taking (and they already do) Central FL vacations and not WDW ones, The Mouse will be in trouble.

My gut says the ignorance and arrogance of the folks at Disney will allow this to happen largely before they wake up to it ... they had 88% room capacity this past quarter, right? (of course, many units at high end Poly and BC were not in service and many at moderate CBR were also taken out) That's the number I think they focus on. They don't seem to get that just like DVCers, who in ever increasing numbers, opt to stay at WDW, but limit their time in Disney parks or dining at Disney locations, there's nothing stopping people from staying at AoA or PO or BW for a week and only going to WDW parks 2-3 days. I'm not sure we aren't close to the day that happens.

Just my observations about this:
Some of you know that as retirees, my husband and I spend a lot of time in central FL now in the winter, renting a condo big enough for family and friends to visit. In the past 3 years that we have been doing this, we've spent exactly one day in a Disney park (AK) only because we had guests who wanted to see it. We have several days left on our non-expiration park hoppers, so $$ is not the issue for us (but it certainly would be if we didn't have those). We do have AP's for SW and have enjoyed our visits there, as have our guests, thanks to the discounted ticket options available to us as AP holders.
The more telling thing we've seen at the condo though is when discussing WDW with fellow snow birds at the complex, the vast majority of them do not bring their visiting children and grandchildren to WDW either, even though it's a mere 10 - 15 minute drive from there. The first thing they mention is the cost, followed closely by the "been there, done that, moving on" attitude, or the "too many other things to do" comments.
I know this does not qualify as a scientific study, but I think it's probably a decent reflection of what many off-site guests feel though. They've escaped the "bubble" and don't miss it at all!

Interesting quotes and thoughts on a topic I've thought a lot about over the last 15 years. I don't go to WDW as much as I used to, but when I do go, the place always seems crowded. No more off-season. So, the real question is - why is that? If they are luring in first time visitors who will never come back then attendance may one day recede. However, we can't ignore the real possibility that some like this version of WDW better than old(er) versions. Like @Nemo14 , I've had discussions with many that would indicate this is not the case. Even as a dude who bought DVC resale (over 10 years ago now, I'm getting old!) lots of DVC members indicate they don't attend the WDW theme parks as much. TBH though, I would think that if attendance was going to take a hit due to the changes that have taken place over the years, I'm a bit bemused that it hasn't already happened. Could it just be population growth? More people have money for a vacation like this than when I was a kid? I think @englanddg mentioned a few weeks ago that the upper middle class doesn't seem to hold WDW in the regard they once did. I would say that is definitely the case. It has been a long time since the mere mention of a trip to the World earned an awed gasp which it, on occasion, actually used to legitimately elicit from adults. It does seem like qualitative/observational evidence (I talk to a lot of people, especially when on vacation) would indicate that a higher ratio of people aren't as awed by WDW as they used to be, yet numbers show attendance to be more than solid. What is the reason the bigwigs at Disney attribute this to? Magic Bands? Is there a great, silent majority that love WDW as it is now?

 

[George]

OK, but who gets to define authenticity, the observer or the artist?

I believe it is the fellow who puts the Franklin Mint sticker on the package.

 

[bhg469]

That's exactly what's lacking in today's WDI.

Even top quality attractions like RSRs at DCA aren't breaking new ground or even using existing tech and new ways. They're just adapting it to (and I hate saying this) tell different stories. ***And I don't want to sound like I'm complaining about RSRs. I love it. But even that is set in a sea of mediocrity or crap ... like the new Fantasyland.

I agree wit NFL but at least we got pork shanks out of it. I'm almost repulsed by the turkey legs but that pork is pretty darn tasty even though I hat the thought of anyone seeing me eat one.

 

[Nemo14]

Interesting quotes and thoughts on a topic I've thought a lot about over the last 15 years. I don't go to WDW as much as I used to, but when I do go, the place always seems crowded. No more off-season. So, the real question is - why is that? If they are luring in first time visitors who will never come back then attendance may one day recede. However, we can't ignore the real possibility that some like this version of WDW better than old(er) versions. Like @Nemo14 , I've had discussions with many that would indicate this is not the case. Even as a dude who bought DVC resale (over 10 years ago now, I'm getting old!) lots of DVC members indicate they don't attend the WDW theme parks as much. TBH though, I would think that if attendance was going to take a hit due to the changes that have taken place over the years, I'm a bit bemused that it hasn't already happened. Could it just be population growth? More people have money for a vacation like this than when I was a kid? I think @englanddg mentioned a few weeks ago that the upper middle class doesn't seem to hold WDW in the regard they once did. I would say that is definitely the case. It has been a long time since the mere mention of a trip to the World earned an awed gasp which it, on occasion, actually used to legitimately elicit from adults. It does seem like qualitative/observational evidence (I talk to a lot of people, especially when on vacation) would indicate that a higher ratio of people aren't as awed by WDW as they used to be, yet numbers show attendance to be more than solid. What is the reason the bigwigs at Disney attribute this to? Magic Bands? Is there a great, silent majority that love WDW as it is now?

Nostalgia is still a big draw I think - baby boomers and others who visited the parks back in the 80's and 90's want to bring their kids and grandkids because they remember how awesome it was. To them it's kind of a rite of passage. I do wonder how many of them keep returning though now that you need a personal trainer to plan your magical experience for you. Then there are those who never went back in its prime and don't know any better because they have nothing to compare it to so they just buy into all the pixie-dusted c r a p. We have a neighbor here like that. He always wanted to go when he was a kid, but his parents couldn't afford it, so this is his mecca. He's been 3 times in the past 3 years and can't wait to go back...well except for the fact that he and his family all got sick on the food during their last visit....

 

[CaptainAmerica]

Sadly, "Disney [does not] Need to Be Afraid of King Kong."

As the article's author readily acknowledges:

Just a few miles away from Universal Orlando, Disney isn't exactly setting the world on fire the way that Universal has with Harry Potter additions to both of its Universal Orlando theme parks. Disney's attendance is at record levels, but a good chunk of that is the handiwork of Universal's booming popularity drawing more visitors to the area.​

For many Orlando vacationers, Universal now has successfully hijacked 2 days from Disney. It's an awesome accomplishment for Universal. Still, until Universal becomes a 3 or 4-day resort, new Universal attractions mean vacationers will simply skip Universal's less popular attractions rather than steal more business from WDW.

Hey, with a paragraph like this discussing revenue gains, the writer is after my heart:

Universal Orlando's attendance isn't quite at Disney World's level, but it's closing the gap. Universal parent Comcast reported a 34 percent year-over-year surge in revenue for its theme parks in its latest quarter. That compares to a more modest 6 percent uptick for Disney's theme parks. These metrics include the performance of Comcast and Disney theme parks outside of Florida, but third-party reports find Universal Orlando's overall growth climbing a lot faster than Disney World's in recent years.​

However, it's wishful thinking to write "Sooner or later, Disney is going to have to address the 800-ton gorilla in the room."

The unfortunate reality for those of us who want to see real improvements at WDW is that even if Kong draws more vacationers to Orlando, they are still going to spend 2 days at Universal and the rest of their vacations at WDW, giving Disney little reason to rush anything at WDW.

I wish it were not the case but, sadly, I fear it is.

TL;DR version: Blue ocean works.

 

[bhg469]

Nostalgia is still a big draw I think - baby boomers and others who visited the parks back in the 80's and 90's want to bring their kids and grandkids because they remember how awesome it was. To them it's kind of a rite of passage. I do wonder how many of them keep returning though now that you need a personal trainer to plan your magical experience for you. Then there are those who never went back in its prime and don't know any better because they have nothing to compare it to so they just buy into all the pixie-dusted c r a p. We have a neighbor here like that. He always wanted to go when he was a kid, but his parents couldn't afford it, so this is his mecca. He's been 3 times in the past 3 years and can't wait to go back...well except for the fact that he and his family all got sick on the food during their last visit....

I have a friend that goes back with his family at least once a year. Despite him constantly complaining he is bored of the place but his wife is seemingly driving the pack. He knows the kids will enjoy universal but she refuses to break away from their annual vacation where the boys line up to be Jedi, eat at chef mickey's and do the same thing they always do.

He seems powerless in the fight but nostalgia seems to have control over her despite the fact that they both admit it's all the same.. it's really baffling. I mean I get the nostalgia part, I loved coming down there and I wish I had done it more 15 years ago but I was in my early 20s and definitely couldn't afford it. Now I am in my mid 30s and can afford it, sort of, and I don't want to because the attraction to me is gone. Mainly because I don't want to be a princess.

 

[CaptainAmerica]

I have a friend that goes back with his family at least once a year. Despite him constantly complaining he is bored of the place but his wife is seemingly driving the pack. He knows the kids will enjoy universal but she refuses to break away from their annual vacation where the boys line up to be Jedi, eat at chef mickey's and do the same thing they always do.

He seems powerless in the fight but nostalgia seems to have control over her despite the fact that they both admit it's all the same.. it's really baffling. I mean I get the nostalgia part, I loved coming down there and I wish I had done it more 15 years ago but I was in my early 20s and definitely couldn't afford it. Now I am in my mid 30s and can afford it, sort of, and I don't want to because the attraction to me is gone. Mainly because I don't want to be a princess.

Do you have kids?